Brand new fish with ?

[suziq]

Yesterday, i finally got my royal pleco (around here they are pretty rare). He's really tiny, about 2 1/2 in. Well, When I got him home yesterday, I noticed a faded spot at the end of his tail, basically the last few vertebrae before the fin. i was worried but after a few hours the color came back mostly.

He was put in a 20g quartantine with cardinals that I also bought.
Well this morning 2 cardinals are dead (expected they were really tiny) and the plec has his color in his tail BUT is showing a few sugar specs (AAUUGH ICH :mad: maybe

What do you folks think I should do?How should I treat for ich with the royal and the cardinals? should i wait to see if it develops?

ANY thoughts are appreciated. I will be here until 11am central and won't be back til 4pm.

please I need to know if I should do anything before I leave!!!!

[Faramir]

Definitely sounds like ich to me. I suggest you medicate quickly. You could easily lose more cardinals; ich often preferentially attacks the gills and on small fish like cardinals death may be the first symptom you notice.

I can't recommend on meds, because we don't have the same ones you have over here.

[suziq]

I have ich cure, which is a formaldehyde mixture, maricide,and salt.
Any suggestions as to which I use?
Also, if I treat for ich, which directions do i go by? The ich cure says use half the recommended dose if you are using it on tetras?

Thanks and keep the ideas coming ;)

[Faramir]

Go for the half. I think plecs are less than tolerant of heavy medication as well.

Some people on here are strong advocates of salt treatment and will be able to fill you in on any backup salt treatment. However, if there's salt in the med you're using that has to be taken into consideration as well.

[suziq]

Any info on salt combined with ichcure? Would this be OK?

PUlease answer. I need to get this resolved before I go and take my last final (on a side note - yeah!!)

[beviking]

I hope this isn't too late. Plecos are supposedly sensitive to salt (so are clown loaches but I've always treated with salt and meds full strength and had no problems!) so you may want to go with HALF the ususal 1 tBlsp/5 gal of salt along with ich cure. Also bump the temp up to at least 80.
If you are able to keep an eye on your pleco and he doesn't look too stressed, you could ad the other 1/2 tBlsp/5 gal salt after 3 hours. Again, I've never done this with plecos, but have with several loaches and also medicated full strength on tetras and loaches with this gradual acclimation method. If you're a "better safe than sorry" person, don't try it though. Good luck!

[Faramir]

I wouldn't go with the salt until someone with experience of this particular med has posted. You can start medicating with the Ichcure straight away, and I would strongly advise you do so.

I am concerned about ODing the salt, especially with fish that are not salt friendly like cardinals. It's a bit like taking Lem-sip for your cold and taking a couple of paracetamols....

[suziq]

Thanks guys. I am going to start with a 1/2 tx of of the ichcure and try one tbl spoon of salt . When I get back, I'll add another so that each is a half treatment.

My first set of cardinals ever I bought with ich (got the whole tank full for like 10 bucks and they gave me the meds for free) and I believe I also added salt but don't remember the concentration.
About 75% of them lived so I am pretty sure they can stand the salt. I was just worried about the plec.

Soes this sound like a good plan? I'll be leaving in a little bit so i need to know ASAP.

Thanks for all of the help!

PS Faramir - I didn't understand one bit of that last line - must be a brit thang :D

[keely]

Bit late now I guess, but...

I would just do the Ich Cure at 1/2 dose; it's a complete treatment by itself... you don't have to dump anything else in there.

Salt and heat is a separate treatment and I would not use salt on tetras -- cardinals are not very tolerant of salt. 25% percent death rate is not exactly success ;)

[Faramir]

I'd say that plecs are more tolerant of salt than cardinals are.

(Oh, and LemSip is a proprietory hot lemon drink for colds and flu that contains paracetamol. People who don't read the label properly often take paracetamol tablets as well and risk overdosing.)

[beviking]

Sounds good to me!

Keely, salt and heat are a seperate treatment method but can also be used with some meds. The salt doesn't kill the ich at this low a dose, it makes the fish produce more slime and at the same time, doesn't allow a build up of slime on the fish. This sloughing of slime helps keep other parasites from invading and exposes external parasites to any meds. (Ich is exempt from the latter b/c it encysts under the outer most layer of skin.) Heat speeds up the ich life cycle resulting in a quicker cure and less stress in the long run on the fish.

[keely]

I don't think it's good advice to add salt when using Ich Cure on cardinal tetras, but we can agree to disagree ;)

[beviking]

Is there a reason you don't agree with it keely? Something in IchCure that doesn't mix with salt? I'm not a chemist (I thought suziq was?) and I'm not trying to egg you on, just curious about your own experience with salt and cardinals. Personally, I have used salt with cardinals and all was o.k.. That isn't to say that this will always be the case though.;)

[suziq]

OOH.! I see we have a controversy in my absence! :D

I have know idea of how the salt works to cure ich. I am not a chemist just a science major. Chem is actually my biggest weakness (orgo - yuck!) However I did look up the chemical structures of the ingredients in ichcure and don't see how Na and Cl could effect the structures. It might mess with the metabolism of the formalin within the fish.

If the salt does cause a sloughing of the slime coat, I think it may actually be beneficial to the cardinals seeing as though they have been exposed, they show no symptoms of the disease.

PS a 75% survival rate is pretty darn good for wild caught cardinals that are extremely disease ridden when acquired.

PPS Just want to let everyone know :D I have officially 4.0 my entire last semester of undergrad work. I now get a pretty piece of paper to hang on my " Yeah Me!" wall.

[Sumpin'fishy]

One thing I've noticed through my own experiences, and have backed up through reading other's experience, is that my pleco seemed to get distressed only when I added large amounts of salt (In rocksalt form) to the tank at one time and it disolved right next to him. He seemed fine in the water after all the salt was dissolved though! As I understand, salt will burn these sensitive fish (and others if applied directly) when it is not disolved in the water yet. To help dilute the salt you can either add less over a period of time, or dilute in water that you are adding.

My suggestion is to do 1Tbsp of salt per 5 gal water (added gradually), use an ich treatment, raise temp to 80 degrees, and vacuum gravel and do a 75% water change at least every other day! I'm serious about this water change thing! The life-cycle will speed up to about 5 days to a week at that temp and the syphons will remove eggs and free-swimming ich. They multiply by the thousands. I'd treat the tank this way for at least 2 weeks and then check every thing out normally again. Hope the best for you

[Serrateeth_2002]

One thing,you shouldn't mix medicene,may be fatal,