Help a first time planter please...

[Gulp]

I've posted a few pics of my first attempt at a planted tank here:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157218

Specs:
100-110 gallon
75 degrees
PH 7-7.2
Power Compact lighting: (2) 65W 10K-Plant Grow, and (2) 65W 6.7K bulbs. 10K lights on all day, 6.7 lights on for a few hours a day...or all day.
Substrate: mix of stuff, used flourite at base of each plant.

I probably screwed up and waited too long to buy some fertilizers...but I finally have some. Over the past 4-5 days, I've added "Flourish", one does of "FloraPride" a few days later, and some "Leaf Zone" yesterday. I bought a iron test kit and my current levels are: 0mg/L for Free Iron, and between 0.1-0.25mg/L of Chelated Iron. I know I should be between 0.25 and 0.5...so I'll add a little more Flourish later today.

Now...the problem. As you can see, my nice bright green swords are starting to brown (along with the brown algae crap that's taking over the tank):
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/13Jul08-right-sword.jpg
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/13Jul08-left-sword.jpg

This other plant (can't remember the name) is not looking good these days either...:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/13Jul08-not-doing-good.jpg

It does have some new leaves popping up, but other branches are dying and breaking off:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/13Jul08-new-leaves.jpg

13 days ago the plant looked like this..
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/01Jul08-new-plant.jpg


The moneywort is doing o.k...but even a few of it's leaves are starting to show brown:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/13Jul08-moneywort.jpg

The only plants doing great are the two long plants in the back:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/13Jul08-front-view-flash.jpg



Can anyone suggest some things I can try to get these plants healthy again? Should adding more flourish and getting my iron levels up be enough? Should I run all 4 bulbs all day long for a while (I'm already having to scrub the glass every other day due to the brown algae that has popped up so rapidly). Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Draal5]

You should run your lights for 8hrs to start with once you have achieved a balance you will be able to increase your photo period. you could run 2 bulbs for the entire 8hrs and run all 4 for 2-3 hrs mid way through the 8hrs

Pick a fert does not mater which one and stick with the what the directions call for.

sword plants are heavy root feeder you could also get some root tabs that should jump start the sword.

That should get you started in the right direction

[Gulp]

You should run your lights for 8hrs to start with once



Really stupid question.....but will running the lights longer hurt, or help? I've been running the 10K bulbs for about 12 hours a day...the 6.7K lights for just a few hours. I'm going to run both types full time for a while to find that balance you are talking about...just don't want to run them too long if it's going to screw up their "cycle" or something.

[Ozymandias]

to much light allows algae to take hold also second the firt tabs for the swords. the balance that most people talk about is leveling out light with CO2 with firtalizer. it can get really complicated at times.


also nice wood

[rich311k]

8-10 hours a day is enough. The plants that look bad have healthy new growth. I think they are converting from emerged to immersed growth. Give everything a little time to settle in. I would add the root tabs as well.

[247Plants]

I would say that you have a lack of light for that tank. I run almost the exact same set up on my 60 gallon to get good lush growth.

How deep us your tank?

[Gulp]

How deep us your tank?



27"-28".

[DAVIDFBT]

You have about 1.9 WPG (Watts Per Gallon) and since your tank is very tall, the amount of light reaching your plants is less than that. Consider buying one more 65w bulb.

And the plant with the reddish leaves that you have is called Ludwigia.

[247Plants]

I dont think cfl will penetrate that deep. My recommendation, if you can afford it, is to go MH.

[Gulp]

You have about 1.9 WPG (Watts Per Gallon)



I have (4) 65 watt bulbs for a total of 260watts. That's 2.6 WPG unless I'm missing something. What do I need to be running at?

[Gulp]

Time for some more questions. O.k. I finally got around to buying some dry potassium nitrate and potassium sulfate. I'm trying to determine how much of this stuff I should be adding to the tank. I took a look at two different dosing calculators.......the problem is they seem to be very different. For example:

http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/questions/dosing.gif


theplantedtank's calculator shows my solution would add 0.14ppm per mL. Chuck's calculator shows 0.09ppm per mL. That's a pretty big difference.... Am I missing something??? I don't want to add too much of this stuff at one time, which calculator is best?

The two calculators are a little closer for the potassium sulfate. plantedtanks says 0.09ppm per mL, and Chuck's says 0.1 ppm.

Why would the potassium nitrate be so far off between the two? My nitrate is pretty high in the tank right now, so I don't plan on adding any until it comes down....I'm just wondering which calculator I should use when I do mess with it. :help:

[Gulp]

BTW, here's an update on the current conditions of the plants.

The moneywort is doing o.k...but not great. Not really growing, and a lot of the lower leaves have fallen off or browned up, but still pretty green:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/24Jul08-moneywort.jpg

The ludwigia is still alive, but not doing well. Every time new leaves appear, the algae seems to cover them...and they die. Still seems to be trying grow though:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/24Jul08-ludwigia2.jpg
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/24Jul08-ludwigia3.jpg

Hornwort is still going nuts, every few days I cut it and replant the new piece. Should be nice and thick soon:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/24Jul08-hornwort.jpg

The swords are doing much better. The leaves still get covered in the algae...but the snails are doing a decent job of keeping them clean. New growth and a few big healthy leaves though. I did put some root tabs under them several days ago (Wonder-grow Root+)...:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/24Jul08-amazon-swords.jpg

[Draal5]

Your lighting is fine you do not need MH lights. you said it your self you waited to long to sat with fertz.

the saying nothing good happens fast is a perfect example. Algae takes a long time to get rid of once its there. The way to get rid of it is to have your plants out compete it for its nutrients.

stay the course with your lighting 8hrs and fertz and maybe dose some excel and you will see a difference. Just takes time and patients.

[rich311k]

I would say just keep doing what you are doing. The algae is not bad and the new growth seems pretty healthy. I would suggest more plants if you can.

[Draal5]

I was typing my post when you updated I had tried to edit my post but had to walk away.

Looking at your update pics what you are doing is working stick with it. I would stay with the store bought fertz for now switching to diy dry fertz has a learning curve that will get you more frustrated.


Once the tank is balanced and you algae is under control you can start switching over.

as rich says add more plants if you want.

also dosing excel will help with the algae and plant growth.

[Riiz]

I just looked at your tank pics for the first time today, and your swords are buried too deep, they will die with their crowns under the gravel.

The first sticky in this section has a good chart for DIY ferts, and I second using Excel, it actually works really well as a CO2 substitute. Just make sure you buy the 2L containers if you go that route.

[phanmc]

Invest in a CO2 system if you can afford it, most dramatic effect to plant growth without adding more lights, and I doubt you want to add more lights since what you have now is enough to grow the plants you have.

Ferts have been covered, I can't help with the the discrepancy between Chuck's or the plantedtank's calculator. Try the calculator at Aquatic Plant Central to see if it matches either:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php

Once you have the ferts, add more plants if you can. It will help against algae.

[chazsgirl]

how do you get it to stay in the gravel by each stem?

[irishspy]

how do you get it to stay in the gravel by each stem?

With the fine gravel I use, I just pluck off some leaves from the lower couple of inches of stem and then slide it into the substrate. I haven't had a problem so far with plants coming loose.

[Gulp]

Sorry in advance for the length...I hope it's not information overload. :grinyes:





Current Tank Stats
-------------------
Size of Tank (Gallons / Litres): 100 gallons
Running for how long: Several years....plants were only added in June though.

Water Params
-------------------
Temp: 75-77
pH: 7.0-7.2
Ammonia (ppm): 0
NitrIte (ppm): 0
NitrAte (ppm): 0-20
KH (degrees): 1.0
GH (degrees): 20+
Ferts you are using (what and how often): Flourite one or two times a week. Leaf zone once a week. Just bought some Excel and plan on using it every couple of days
CO2 (Type & Level): None

Lighting (Wattage & type of bulbs):
Power Compact: (2) 10,000K 65watt bulbs, (2) 6400K 65watt bulbs
Also have a 48" standard hood with a 45watt 2800K bulb. The 10,000K bulbs are on for 8-10 hours a day, the other bulbs are on for 2-3 hours a day.
-------------------

Fish In Tank:
(6) Neons
(3) Cardinals
(14) Penguin Tetras
(7) Emperor Tetras
(12) Harlequin Rasboras
(21) Hengeli Rasboras
(1) Syno Cat
(7) Mystery Snails
-------------------

Plants In Tank:
(2) Amazon Swords
Moneywort
Hornwort
Anubia
Ludwigia
Wisteria
Mystery Fuzzy plant
-------------------


===================================
Time for an update. Things haven't been terrible....but they haven't been great. A few of the plants I have tried are doing great....some o.k....and others aren't doing good at all....and others just died.



Here's the tank back on July 1:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/01Jul08-front-view.jpg


Front view yesterday:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/12Aug08-Front%20view.jpg


The hornwort is obviously doing good, and the amazon swords are finally taking off. The anubia on the right has only been in the tank a little over a week so I'm not sure how it's going to do. The little grass in the middle front isn't growing at all...but isn't dying. The Java moss is doing good....pulled a lot of it out today to slow it down.


The wisteria in the back stays green but doesn't grow much:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/12Aug08-wisteria.jpg



The moneywort isn't growing much and is loosing most of the lower leaves....the top leaves stay green and new ones appear...but they are turning into stalks.
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/12Aug08-moneywort.jpg

My first batch of Ludwigia didn't do well so I stuck some more in the tank last week to try again:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/12Aug08-ludwigia.jpg


I can't remember what this stuff is....but it is not doing good at all. Over the last day or so all the stalks on the left side of the tank have lost their "fuzz":
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/12Aug08-mystery%20plant%20dying.jpg
Only one stalk is still alive and it's on the right side of the tank:
http://www.roadrashed.com/Aquarium%20pictures/tropical%20build/12Aug08-last%20mystery%20plant%20living.jpg



I've probably blabbed enough now so I'll give it a break. With that bit of tank history and the current water/lighting parameters.....what should I try next? Any plant suggestions? I don't want to deal with CO2 injection so please keep that in mind. Should I just slap a few more swords in there, or is there a good looking grass someone can recommend? Any help I can get is greatly appreciated.

[phanmc]

Load up (at least double your plant mass) on low light plants like crypts, anubias, and java ferns. Instead of grass try marsilea (aquatic clovers), it forms carpet similar to glosso but much easier to grow. If you insist on grass, try E. tenellus (pygmy chainsword) or Lilaeopsis mauritius.

Double your current fert dosage, your light level is higher than what the suggested dosage is designed for.

[Gulp]

Load up (at least double your plant mass) on low light plants like crypts, anubias, and java ferns. Instead of grass try marsilea (aquatic clovers), it forms carpet similar to glosso but much easier to grow. If you insist on grass, try E. tenellus (pygmy chainsword) or Lilaeopsis mauritius.

Double your current fert dosage, your light level is higher than what the suggested dosage is designed for.



Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to call my LFS and see if they can order some marsilea....and a few others. He can usually order stuff cheaper than I can get it online. Would you suggest the crenata or the augustifolia? Looks like the augstifolia is "easy"...so that's what I need. :grinyes:

http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=marsilea

[phanmc]

The crenata stays smaller, otherwise they're the same in looks and difficulty to grow (at least for me).