Your Low Tech Setup and it's Success (or lack of!)

[The Gipper]

I have a 120 high tech that I've setup in May and I'm still wrestling with getting it right. I enjoy the challenge it presents and look forward to the potential results. This tank is a no expenses spared effort!

TomFrom StLouis started a thread similar to this, but I thought we could expand it and actually tell about your low tech setups and it's successes. IF you failed and discovered why, that would be great too.

I would like to setup another smaller tank (10-30 gallons or so), but I only have the time and $$ to support one high tech effort (my current 120), so the other tank has to be low tech and on a budget. I'm talking no CO2 for sure. I don't know about spending the $$ for compact fluorescent lighting, normal fluorescent lighting is probably the ticket. I want to keep the espenses down. I still want a great looking tank without the expense of CO2.

For those of you who are running a low tech, or have attempted a low tech, could you describe your setup and it's success:

Substrate
Lighting (type and amount)
Do you add micro/macro elements
Plants that work with no CO2 and lower lighting
Fish selection

Your input is greatly appreciated, and I'm sure there are others out there who would be interested in this besides myself!

[JasDownUnder]

I would be very interested in the low-tech setup :)

[Captain Hook]

I would also be very interested to hear the successes of people with low-tech setups. I am especially interested to hear about the lighting, substrate, and plants because I will soon be setting up a 20 gallon with a very limited budget and time.

[superjohnny]

http://www.johnnyanddana.com/images/Tank/16sept03_mini.JPG

This is my eclipse system 6 that's pretty low maintenance. That was kind of the key because it's original intention was to go to work with me (hasn't happened yet :rolleyes: ). Here are the specs...

Eclipse system 6 retrofitted (http://www.johnnyanddana.com/Eclipse_Retro.htm) with an ahsupply power-compact 13w 10,000k light. Using the stock sump & bio-wheel. I've never changed the sump insert because I don't need the carbon filtration, just the mechanical.
Onyx sand
2 small pieces of driftwood, each with a large java fern, 1 with java moss. 2 medium (and growing relatively fast actually) anubias nana in each back corner. 2 crypt wendtii middle towards the back which are growing too fast. In the foreground is dwarf sag which is much happier under the 13w PCF than the original 8w stock t6 light.

Livestock is 1 otto and 2male, 2 female endlers livebearers. I found out yesterday that guppies & endlers will cross breed so I took a guppie out yesterday... only to find some newborn fry hiding among the dwarf sag. Hopefully it's not cross-bred :-\

I change 20% of the water every week or two and infrequently wipe any algae off the glass. I add a ml or 2 of Seachem Florish with water change. The only issue I have right now is some holes in the Java ferns. Some nutrient is deficient, but I'm not sure which.

It's very low maintenance which is perfect for me. I think the key to a small tank like this is finding slow growing plants that you like. Fast growing plants have to be trimmed and in small tanks that's tough to do. The Java fern and anubias are perfect for this application. Anubias, to me, are the coolest plants. I really like them. My big tank has nana, barteri, frazeri & congensis.

I'm thinking of taking the wendtii out because it's growing so fast, but it's color adds a nice contrast. I dunno what to do actually.

[RTR]

My low tech setups (the majority of my tanks) - by my personal definition of course - have 2 - 2.5W/gallon, enriched substrates, no CO2 supplement, rare supplement of other ferts., good current, excellent filtration, 25-33% partials weekly w/aged tap, are all understocked (or at least not at all overstocked), all on timed lighting cycles, most are 76-78F.

Those tanks permiting survival of such have "cleaning crews" of some or all of the following: amano/southern marsh/other algae-eating shrimp or detritivoves, snails (MTS, common pond, ramshorn), bristlenose or peckoltia or dwarf panaque cats.

Plants include Swords, Crinums, Val, Crypts, Anubias, Java Fern and Java Moss.

[PikeLee]

I have a 90g that I feel is a “low-tech” Setup.

Let me first start off by saying that I used Diana Walstad’s Book as a reference (Ecology of a Planted Aquarium). I had another resource where this guy did the same thing, and showed a diary of it, but I can’t seem to find the link right now. Regardless, if you are going to do a “low-tech” setup. Her book is an excellent resource as well as this forum.

Anyways. I have a 90g “Low-Tech” and I love it. I have a 30g “high-tech” and it’s cool. The plants grow real fast and nice. But if you’re not on top of the water changes or the ferts, the algae will come screaming for you.

The 90g that I have is nice and simple. 160wpg, No CO2, light stock of fish, and good surface agitation. The plants grow nicely, but they don’t go crazy like in a CO2 tank. Check out my profile for what I have in it. Or click on the link for an older picture:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13049

I’m going to reply with this post with a more recent picture later.

I really don’t have to worry about anything. Things move slowly so you can catch the algae that creeps up. I don’t fertilize. I’ve been doing 20% water changes every month or 2. And that’s only because I added the apistos (and they actually spawned). To be honest with you, I don’t even think they need the water changes that often.

I usually have to keep trimming my Italian val once in a while. I clean the glass about once every 2-3 weeks. But it’s not a necessity. My dwarf sag and val shoots out runners. And my Madagascar lace shoots out about 4 nice leaves before it drops dead. Then it starts the cycle again. I want to get a Green lotus in there, but I can’t find any at a good price right now. And once my Red starts to shoot out runners, I’ll be moving a piece of it in there to see how that goes.

Major Problems that I’ve experienced:
- Surface scum. Cured that with the Fluval surface extractor.
- BGA. I think I got that from my fluval acting up. I didn’t change the pads in it from the 2nd time I was trying to clear up the water from the use of fluorite. Once I changed the pads and gave a Black out, things got a lot better. I seen a little bit after a couple of days, so I shot some Potassium in there and I don’t see a thing.

Other than that, all is gravy. I wanted to put some Discus in there, but everyone recommend that I would have to do some major water changes. Something that I really didn’t want to do. So I opted out on that. I’m thinking of getting some nice Rainbows, but the ones I want are hard to find and really expensive.

Changes that I am considering:
- Maybe some extra light. I’m thinking of getting an 110w from Ah supply and keep the 80w light strip that I have. That would be a total of 190w (2.1 wpg). Since I have a deep tank (2ft), I think I need a bit more light. If it’s too strong, I can always decrease the duration of the lighting (hopefully).
- Adding some more fish. Probably a dwarf pike and some rainbows.

That’s about it!!! When I get more room, I would like to create more “low-tech” setups and search for easier to grow plants.

HTH

[kveeti]

I just use regular gravel and regular fluorescents. All the details (plants, watts, etc.) are in my tank specs; pictures are there, too.

Failures: The vals did not do well for me with my low light - they spread a lot but never got taller than a couple inches. (I guess if you wanted "grass" that would be the way to go!) But I wanted a plant for the background so I have replaced them with bolbitis. I have not had that very long, so I do not know how they will perform in the long run.

The aponogeton bulbs did very well for a long time (over a year), but lately a lot of leaves have been dying. I'm not sure what's up with that.

Success (eventually): My java fern really just sat around for quite a while not doing much of anything, although it did stay very green and had a couple babies. Within the last few months it has really taken off and I have started dividing it. If it continues, it will be a nice bushy forest on the right-hand side. I guess it will replace the aponogeton bulbs if they continue to deteriorate.

[superjohnny]

They're probably just hibernating, not deteriorating.

[Slappy*McFish]

For my low-tech tanks, check my "tank specs" page below. All the info is in there. I've made a few changes to the tanks, and I need to update my pics, but everything else is practically the same. My Java Ferns have doubled in size, are looking much better and healthier now.

p.s., that's a fine looking tank SuperJohnny:cool:

[Starry]

Originally posted by kveeti
The aponogeton bulbs did very well for a long time (over a year), but lately a lot of leaves have been dying. I'm not sure what's up with that.


They do that, that's what they do. They go dormant every once in a while. Quite unpredictable in the aquarium. People have all kinds of fancy methods of putting them on moist peat in the basement for 3 months and doing vodoo or dancing around them and stuff, but I left mine in the tank and it came back about 6 months later. Actually, the main bulb died, but one of the "babies" pulled through. Maybe not a rousing success story, but it's alive, so hey... Certain conditions are supposed to trigger them to come back, but I can't tell you what it is. There's also a better chance of them coming back if they had a good season - lots of nutrients stored in their tubers. Just because they grew like crazy doesn't mean they were happy - they were just living off what they had stored away. They do need fertilization to store enough to pull them through the dead period. Well, I'm sure you weren't interested anyway, so I'll stop. But I really like Aponogetons :)

[Molino]

My low-tech tank is a 10 gallon tank with the standard 13 watt flourescent bulb. For plants I originally had just Java Ferns and Anubias Nana. The Java Ferns are all tiny offshoots from my big plant and are hardly growing.

I've also added some clippings from my other planted tank including Bacopa which is doing well. Since the picture below I have also added more Java Fern offshoots and a Cryptocoryne which is also doing very well.

In the picture it shows a CO2 diffuser, but it is no longer in use. I have yet to prune the plants, and do not add any fertilizers.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/molino/Misc/nomore-ugly-tank.jpg

[kveeti]

Starry - Actually, I was interested, thank you. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that crispus didn't need a dormant period like many of the other aponogetons. I don't know if I have the patience to wait for it, or if in my set-up the bulb is healthy enough to revive.

Superjohnny & Molino, those are both great looking tanks. Molino, what's that little pink and yellow thing on the left? It looks like a little statue or else the light is just playing tricks on my eyes.

[Molino]

kveeti: That small yellow and pink thing on the left is actually a tiny Anubias Nana attached to a pink rock that I'm trying to nurse back to health. I put it on top of the decoration so it would be closer to the light.

[Starry]

Originally posted by kveeti
Starry - Actually, I was interested, thank you. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that crispus didn't need a dormant period like many of the other aponogetons. I don't know if I have the patience to wait for it, or if in my set-up the bulb is healthy enough to revive.


Most aponogetons out there aren't pure strains, so just because it looks like a crispus doesn't mean it acts like one. I've heard of people propagating ulvaceus by seed, but true ulvaceus are self-sterile. So with apons you never really know what you get. I'd leave it in the tank and see what happens. Maybe move it somewhere where it gets light, but also a little shade. If it does sprout again, make sure to put it somewhere where it gets light until it grows a bit. They're not sensitive to being moved, at least in my experience. Just don't bury the bulb.
Healthy bulbs are lighter coloured and firm. If it goes black and mushy, it's gone for good.

[SnakeIce]

my low tech, cause I didn;t know about high tech at the time I got the tank is all of my tanks.

this last spring I had a tank full of a common hygrophila, it was every where, one melon sword, three aponagetons sp???, an anubias nana, some java moss, and some egeria densa,

I decided that I would do a trim, aquascaping somthing and took out a lot of the hygro, well shortly after that the water(city water) changed sources to a hard high ph water for the summer and I have been growing algea very well since then.

at the moment the planted aspect of the tank is a flop. I removed to much from the tank and then the water changed on top of that and the plants couldn't recover.

so now I have plans to remove most of what is in the tank plant wise, because the egeria(already gone), melon sword, and to some degree the aponagetons are not low light plants.... my knowlege about the whole plants in tanks is a work in progress:)

I have some low light friendly plants ordered and should be here tomorrow. i should have then some hornwort, a hygro sp, dwarf sag, java fern and cripts wendtii and undulatus

my tank was ok back last spring but I had the feeling that I was trying to grow plants that only just had enough light if the flourescent bulbs were almost new

so hopefully this time things will go abit better

check the link at bottom for my tank specs

[Matak]

My lo-tech (check my tank specs, below) includes RFUGF and RO flourescents. I am at 3 watts per gallon and a home made substrate. The only thing I am currently doing is water changes and my plants are doing fine :)

[PikeLee]

I was going to post my recent picture of my 90g, but rather than post the picture here. I’ll just send you the link to my site:

Recent Pic:
http://www.freewebs.com/pikelee/mytanks.htm
First Pic (Scroll down):
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forum...?threadid=13049

This is the most recent picture I took. As you can see there’s a big difference from the first picture I took.

With the whole “Low-Tech” idea from Walstad, she was mentioning how she does very infrequent water changes. Maybe once every 4 –6 months if I can recall correctly. Does anyone have this kind of maintenance schedule and have a successful tank? I noticed everyone has been posting weekly water changes. But from my understanding, I thought the whole deal with the “Low-Tech” was also Low Maintenance.

I have been doing monthly or bi-monthly water changes, but that’s only because I have apistos in the tank. To be honest with you, I don’t think they need it. I’m going to try and go 2 months this time and see what happens.

I remember PlantBrains has posted some sort of formula on how to maintain the “Low-tech” tank. But I can’t seem to find it in the “Search”. Anyone remember seeing it or got it copied down?

[RTR]

ALL of my tanks get weekly partials, FO, planted, plenum, high or low tech. If I can't or won't maintain the water quality, I won't set the tank. I learned the difference in regular partials and infrequent partials about 40 years ago, it is far too late to change my mind on that.

All IMHO & IME, YMMV.

[MrGoodbytes]

I wouldn't call it a planned tank, but I have a 10gal underneath my 35 gallon with 30W NOF light and no CO2. I just gow stuff in there from cuttings and I usually do water changes whenever I feel like it. The animal bioload consists of 3 amano shrimp with an 8L 50/50 mix of sphagnum/topsoil. The plants are quite vigorous and anlgae are not really an issue.

Graeme

[PikeLee]

Hope I didn’t strike a nerve there RTR. Just trying to stay on topic with what The Gipper was getting at. Most of the time when people mention “Low-Tech”, it’s in reference to Walstad’s book. Low Maint/expense. Of course everyone has made there little changes. Like I did with using profile and fluorite instead of regular topsoil or peat.

But water changes cost money and time. Especially if you’re using RO.

I understand that the tanks benefit greatly from water changes. I remember when I was trying to get rid of the BGA, I did water changes like twice in a week. And once I did, I had some of my plants pearling. That’s w/o CO2. But my whole angle, and I think this is what’s The Gipper is getting at, is the whole inexpensive and low maintenance thing in relation to Walstad’s book. But I could be wrong…

I guess that’s my idea of the “low-tech”. But when I was doing research when I was setting up my tank I found a couple of sites where people followed the same path and had a great success with it. I’m bummed out that I can’t find those sites right now, but one of them actually showed a photographic diary. You can see from picture to picture that the plants were flourishing. And if I can recall, fish actually spawned, as my apistos did in my tank.

As mentioned before, that’s my angle at the “low-tech”. I guess I’m just hoping to see others with their success at the same angle.

Take it easy.

[RTR]

Water is cheap. RO water is not cheap, and IMHO wasteful most of the time unless you are breeding fish which require low TDS. The use of RO is not in any way "low-tech". The electricity to operate the tanks costs several-fold what the water does, are you likely to advocate turning off filters and lights? IMHO & IME tanks have some basic requirements for operation. If you cannot afford the water, you cannot afford the tank.

Ms Waldstad does not change water other than at wide intervals, does not filter (but does use current), and does not use artificial light. Nor does she aquascape or groom nor feed her plants. If you buy that package, buy the whole package. I do not buy it - I do not want my tanks to look like the one photo I have seen of one of her tanks. But that is personal choice.

Water changes are perhaps the cheapest and easiest thing that can be done to a tank to promote health an stability. I have yet to have, or even hear of tanks damaged by water changes (assuming the hobbyist involved has heard on chlorine, chloramines, and temperature - and if they have not they are not a hobbyist). I read posts daily in multiples on tanks which have been harmed either directly or secondarily by lack of changes.

I have several tanks operating with plenums. They don't show nitrate other than when I supplement. They get the same changes the other tanks do. Is that wasteful? To suggest that is, again IMHO & IME, absurd. The fish there exceed there natural lifespans - just as they do in my other tanks. And yes, suggestions that water changes are not needed, or are wasted money, do strike a nerve with me as I consider that both false economy and extremely poor aquarium practice. Your tanks are your business, operate them as you will. But if you suggest as a general rule that not changing water is good aquarium practice, I will exercise my option of opposing that view strongly.

[superjohnny]

Well I think you are both right. RTR says changing water is a good idea. Pike says it can be done effectively with infrequent water changes.

I think you'll both agree that the vast majority of hobbyists will and should do frequent water changes because for the vast majority of users it will help maintain a healthy environment. Low maintenance or not. Those attempting to go without water changes better know exactly what they're doing.

So for the newbie out there reading this thread... No, you can't have a fish tank without changing the water.

These terms "low-tech" and "low maintenance" should be defined before we argue for or against them.

[PikeLee]

RTR,
My apologies for striking a nerve, but I think SuperJohnny got it right on the head in regards to defining what is meant by “Low-Tech” and “Low maint.” From my understanding the term was coined from her book. So therefore, that’s the general idea that people would follow when trying to setup that kind of tank. Of course there are small adjustments that are made. It’s whatever works for you, but it’s more the concept I think we’re trying to focus on.

Her tanks may not be groomed and aquascaped to be put in AGA Contest, but they do seem successful. And whose to say that if you a have low tech setup, you’re not grooming. As I stated, I have to groom my Italian val. Every now and then. If not, it’ll block all the light toward the back of my tank.

I know it’s hard to buy the idea of not doing water changes, but I’m not saying that you don’t have to. I’m just saying that I don’t do it that often in my 90g, and it works for me, and that’s what I felt the original post was getting at. And just because I don’t do weekly water changes, I don’t think that’s poor aquarium practice. I think my 90g is quite successful. If you look at the first shot to the most recent shot of my tank, there’s a bit of a difference. On top of that, my apistos have spawned in there. (For all of you that do not know, apistos can be a tough cichlid to breed. They require extremely clean water and the optimal conditions to get them to spawn.)

When I started doing research on this whole concept. I kept coming up with hits on the “low-tech” thing. To later find out that they were adding CO2, ferts, and all these other things. To me that’s not low tech and they are using the term in the wrong context.

There are basic things needed, such as filters, lighting, heat, etc. But that’s basics. There’s only a few people that I’ve read that have had success with using natural lighting and no heaters. But they live in the desert where it’s warm and they put there tanks right up against the window. So there is a bit of overhead cost for the majority of us, but again…basics. What I would like to figure out is getting rid of the excessive.

I have 30g right now with high lighting, CO2, and I have to fertilize and do weekly water changes. If not, the algae goes crazy and the plants suffer. I love my hobby, but I don’t want to make it full time job. I have other things to do with my time.

My whole angle is trying to get a nice looking tank without all the work. And to also hear other people’s input on their similar experiences. So hopefully this can be a whole new approach in having a successful planted tank. Too many people follow the very successful formula of 50% weekly water changes followed up by fertilization 3 times a week. But I’m sure there are other ways. Especially if your tank is nowhere near being fully stocked.

If I only had 15 cardinals and 8 ottos in my 90g, is it necessary to do weekly maintenence? Again, it’s what works for you and is dependent upon the scenario.

I would like to be able to go on vacation for maybe 3 weeks and not have to worry water changes, ferts, co2, etc. And again, that’s what I feel was really the target of this whole post.

I agree with you saying that water changes are the cheapest and easiest thing to stabilize the tank. But if my car only has 1500 miles since the last oil change, I’m not wasting my time or money in getting another until it’s do.

So don’t take it as if I’m bashing you for saying that your method is wrong for doing higher maintenance. I just have a different approach as I’m sure others do as well.

I would be interested on Tom Barr’s opinion on this post. As I recall he also had his own method at the Low-tech thing.

[RTR]

High tech vs low tech debate was around long before Ms. Waldstad's book. It dates back at least to the original publication of The Optimum Aquarium if not before. That was 1986 vs 1999.

RO is not low tech, PCFs are not low tech (but may be applied to low tech with care), monitors and controllers are not low tech, nor are repeated doses of supplements during the week low tech, plenums are not low tech (they require either heavy stocking and feeding or dosing), substrate cables are not low tech. I suspect the any CO2 supplement is not low tech to a purist, but for myself I'm on the fence on that one as all my tanks are not low tech.

When your small Tetras average to 6-10 years in your care, most of your cichlids to their teens at least, your puffers over 20, and your loaches much longer than that, tell me about it and I'll listen. Otherwise I'll continue preaching that frequent and significant water changes are the most effective single aquarium technique. Conversely I will argue that failure to do water changes is other than good aquarium practice and a risky technique.

[PikeLee]

Wow…Touchy Touchy. I didn’t think replying to a post can push someone’s buttons that bad.

I guess this is going to go on and on with your views vs my trial and error. I may not have the decades of experience as you do in this hobby. But maybe that makes it easier for me to accept newer methods. There’s a saying about that, but I forget what it is. I’m sure most of you can recall…Can’t you? ;) :D

But as mentioned above, there are basics involved with keeping an aquarium. And all the technology, no matter how inexpensive they are, still have a bit a good technology involved. Even if you have a low-tech Tank, you should still be able to test the water if you want with a PH meter. We should go crazy now and go back to cave tank days.

For all you newbies out there, in order to go about my approach and the many many others, you do have come at it with great care. Careful planning, monitoring, and patience is involved. So make sure you do a lot of research.

And for those that are interested in some resources on “low-tech” methods, here are some links:

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/plant/lotech.html

http://communitytank.aaquaria.com/articles/algae.htm
Scroll down to Basic Guidlines

There’s more out there, but I’m a bit tired. I never thought I would get in such a debate over aquariums. I hope this doesn’t make me an honorary “Fish Geek”. But I’m sure there are many more sites out there. I’m just tired of filtering things out from the garbage that’s on the web. Good luck to all of you with you low-tech plans.

[The Gipper]

Here's my low tech tank.

My 30 gal hex low tech plant tank with glass top(15w NO Fluorescence, no CO2, aquaclear 150 HOB filter, only add fluorish) . Plants (Anubias sp., Java Fern, Crypt sp.) grow slow, no pearling, but are doing great.

I do plan on upping the lighting to because my very low light does not show the fish and their colors well. I'm sure the plants would like it a bit better as well.