Looking for advice about my filtration

[journey0820]

Hi there,
I have a protein skimmer that I clean out about every other week. I have a hang on the back filter that I clean once a month or so...usually alternating the parts I clean. It contains a sponge like substance like floss, these little ceramic things, and carbon.

My protein skimmer has a bookmark size divider that has small pouches of carbon I have yet to do anything with since the start up of my tank in March.

I see lots of people running tanks with little or no mechanical or chemical filtration.

I have a 25 gallon tall tank with 2.5 inch mixed texture sandbed and 50 pounds of live rock. It has not been cured (straight from ocean, never exposed to air for longer than 2 minutes).

What's the best way to filter my tank at this point? Should I remove carbon? Should I change my HOB filter into a fuge?

[1oooop]

well, I'm not a SW tank guy, but I replace my carbon every time I do a water change.

[journey0820]

I'm doing water changes once a week...about 4-5 gallons for a 25 gallon tank...I'd be doing lots of carbon changing!

[Amphiprion]

Do water changes whenever possible when cycling a tank. I am not sure where the "myth" of it hindering the process came from, but it is pretty much unfounded in saltwater aquaria with live rock, IME.

As far as filtration goes, there is zero good reason to remove or not use carbon. Many notions about it are also unfounded. It makes much better sense to remove as many noxious organic compounds and colorants that are leached from the rock during the cycling/curing process. Water changes coupled with carbon can theoretically save more life on the rock than just leaving it alone.

[wantvws]

Do water changes whenever possible when cycling a tank. I am not sure where the "myth" of it hindering the process came from, but it is pretty much unfounded in saltwater aquaria with live rock, IME.

As far as filtration goes, there is zero good reason to remove or not use carbon. Many notions about it are also unfounded. It makes much better sense to remove as many noxious organic compounds and colorants that are leached from the rock during the cycling/curing process. Water changes coupled with carbon can theoretically save more life on the rock than just leaving it alone.
I was told to run no filtration when I was cycling my tank, but I did not have die off from the rock to contend with....would the die off cause the living bacteria to thrive?
Robbie

[journey0820]

Do water changes whenever possible when cycling a tank. I am not sure where the "myth" of it hindering the process came from, but it is pretty much unfounded in saltwater aquaria with live rock, IME.

As far as filtration goes, there is zero good reason to remove or not use carbon. Many notions about it are also unfounded. It makes much better sense to remove as many noxious organic compounds and colorants that are leached from the rock during the cycling/curing process. Water changes coupled with carbon can theoretically save more life on the rock than just leaving it alone.

Hi, the tank is cycled already...I got it in March. I'm just curious if now that we are past that stage and getting settled in, if I still need to continue in the same way with all my filtration. I water changed my butt off during cycling by the way - I'm with you!

[journey0820]

Yup - I see where the confusion is now. I said the rock wasn't "cured" so everyone though I was cycling. Sorry about that. I thought maybe there would be a filtration difference between my rock (with little die off) and a rock that had been cured outside or something. Sorry for the confusion.

[wantvws]

Would one option be ditching the filter media in your HOB and relying on the LR for filtration?
Robbie

[Andrew7769]

you dont need it per say but it dosent hurt at all,carbon i believe is not much use after 3 months, those stars are junk you can toss them you have plenty of LR for bio filtration, the best thing about filters is the mechanical filtration, i use my filter to get all the large particules out of the water, keep in mind however to keep on top of changeing/rinsing the media to prevent a nitrite/ ammonia spike.:)

[Pufferpunk]

Dump the HOB filter, it's a nitrate factory. The skimmer & LR is all you need. Have you tested the parameters lately? Any inhabitants in there yet?

[Amphiprion]

Rely on live rock for biological filtration and skimmer to catch particles/charged compounds. I still highly recommend the use of carbon to remove refractory compounds that are not removed via skimming nor are they removed often enough via water changes. At the very least, it keeps the water from becoming tinted (which is often difficult to see, unless there is a side-by-side comparison). I have never seen any issues stemming from extended and continuous carbon use (unlike the overuse of GFO). Since we don't really know all of the compounds that sprout up in our tanks, it is difficult to make a blanket statement, I suppose. However, in general, these levels do often accumulate to much higher than typical seawater levels (especially in tanks with a less-efficient skimmer)--by bacterial metabolism and coral/cnidarian byproducts, etc. From what I've seen, the accumulation of organics has less benefits to offer than detriments. You can read up more on organics here (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php).

To be honest, this is the first I have ever heard of cycling a tank with no filtration.

[wantvws]

Actually you're right now that I think about it. I did run my wet/dry when I was cycling but no carbon or anything in my canister filters. I didn't run my skimmer either.
My mistake!
Robbie

[Gangstafish]

I have never used carbon in any of my tanks. I use Chemipure. It has never failed. It also lasts alot longer than carbon.

[Amphiprion]

I have never used carbon in any of my tanks. I use Chemipure. It has never failed. It also lasts alot longer than carbon.

Sure you use carbon ;). Chemipure contains mostly activated carbon, along with some exchange and scouring resins. The only thing that would last longer would be the resins. It is a good product and works well, but there are cheaper options.

[journey0820]

Rely on live rock for biological filtration and skimmer to catch particles/charged compounds. I still highly recommend the use of carbon to remove refractory compounds that are not removed via skimming nor are they removed often enough via water changes. At the very least, it keeps the water from becoming tinted (which is often difficult to see, unless there is a side-by-side comparison). I have never seen any issues stemming from extended and continuous carbon use (unlike the overuse of GFO). Since we don't really know all of the compounds that sprout up in our tanks, it is difficult to make a blanket statement, I suppose. However, in general, these levels do often accumulate to much higher than typical seawater levels (especially in tanks with a less-efficient skimmer)--by bacterial metabolism and coral/cnidarian byproducts, etc. From what I've seen, the accumulation of organics has less benefits to offer than detriments. You can read up more on organics here (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php).

To be honest, this is the first I have ever heard of cycling a tank with no filtration.


That first paragraph was super helpful...I like details. I'm not sure what you meant by the second part. I cycled my tank with massive water changes AND all of my fitering systems in place. I'd heard of people slowing getting rid of some filtration systems once the tank was established and that is why I was asking if I still needed all of my filtering stuff - or if keeping all of my filtration systems could damage the tank in any way.

[journey0820]

Dump the HOB filter, it's a nitrate factory. The skimmer & LR is all you need. Have you tested the parameters lately? Any inhabitants in there yet?

Ooohhhh yeah...inhabitants are in there. Here's a recent FTS. I've got a hammer coral, yellow polyp coral, monti digi, monti cap, colt coral, sunburst coral (favorite), mushrooms, xenia, candy cane coral, aussie acan, favia and a few zoas. Plus fish and mobile invents. LOVE having a tank.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2815/ftsnewjuly2008ia2.jpghttp://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3996/candycanejuly2008bx7.jpghttp://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2792/aussieacanbestjuly2008qf7.jpghttp://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3060/starburstcoralsv3.jpghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7454/starfishandcukess6.jpg

[Amphiprion]

That first paragraph was super helpful...I like details. I'm not sure what you meant by the second part. I cycled my tank with massive water changes AND all of my fitering systems in place. I'd heard of people slowing getting rid of some filtration systems once the tank was established and that is why I was asking if I still needed all of my filtering stuff - or if keeping all of my filtration systems could damage the tank in any way.

I meant to quote wantvws in the second part--sorry for any confusion.

But yeah, if anything, you'll want to continue using your filtration. While ammonia and nitrite are undetectable, all of those compounds released by animals and bacteria won't stop being produced. Good filtration is an aid to keep them down between water changes.

[wantvws]

Journey, your tank looks great btw....great job!
Robbie

[journey0820]

I meant to quote wantvws in the second part--sorry for any confusion.

But yeah, if anything, you'll want to continue using your filtration. While ammonia and nitrite are undetectable, all of those compounds released by animals and bacteria won't stop being produced. Good filtration is an aid to keep them down between water changes.

Thanks a bunch...always looking to learn and do things better!

[journey0820]

Journey, your tank looks great btw....great job!
Robbie


Thanks Robbie...I think that this hobby is sooo fun and such a cool opportunity to learn. I am obsessing on multiple forums right now...don't know when that part will die down!

[wantvws]

Thanks Robbie...I think that this hobby is sooo fun and such a cool opportunity to learn. I am obsessing on multiple forums right now...don't know when that part will die down!
Takes about 10 months:D
Robbie

[journey0820]

Oh boy, that's a lot more reading left for me!