Please help w/ bacteria/fungus??!?!!?!?!

[noodles62]

I posted a thread earlier today (don't know how to link it!) about a possibly sick Bolivian Ram and an Angel w/ fin problems....I did my best to take pics of the angels fins and need help identifying so I can treat....Ram shows no visible signs of illness except he won't eat and is losing weight....Will treat entire tank but need help on what to treat for...

Pics are not great - my camera does not want to focus on close ups even w/ macro on.....
Please help w/ advice so I can save my fishies....
Stats = 45 gallon tank, 2 HOB filters, planted; 2 Bolivian rams, 2 angels, 6 corys, a few neons, 1 dwarf gourami...& ramshorn snails....params are all great!

The angel was picked on but the bully has been gone for over a week...params are great. Did a 35% w/c tonite and need to know what to do next.....

Tried to attach the cropped/zoomed pics but was not smart enough! :wall:

[efors]

Hi!
I would like to see opinions from other folks, but I think your problem may be bacterial fin rot affecting the fishes. If that is the case, you should use an antibiotic for this illness; that won't hurt your plants. Look for one at your LFS.
Good luck!

[Coler]

Hmmmmm....I take it your talking about the fins on the angel...and the ram looks a bit scrawny.

I presume params - great = 0, 0, some, for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and liquid drop test kit.

If it was the angel on its own I'd say its a little fin rot...and if it wasn't improving/ or spread to body I would think more likely bacterial than fungal therefore maracyn (antibiotic). The bully is only gone for a week, so as long as the Angel is eating etc. it should clear up over the next week or so...hopefully you are seeing improvement rather than the opposite over the next couple of days - if so, no need to treat that.

The ram not eating...is worrying...might be a bit more to work out here...how long have you had him/her...when did it stop feeding...any aggression towards him/her ?

[noodles62]

Hmmmmm....I take it your talking about the fins on the angel...and the ram looks a bit scrawny.

I presume params - great = 0, 0, some, for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and liquid drop test kit.

If it was the angel on its own I'd say its a little fin rot...and if it wasn't improving/ or spread to body I would think more likely bacterial than fungal therefore maracyn (antibiotic). The bully is only gone for a week, so as long as the Angel is eating etc. it should clear up over the next week or so...hopefully you are seeing improvement rather than the opposite over the next couple of days - if so, no need to treat that.

The ram not eating...is worrying...might be a bit more to work out here...how long have you had him/her...when did it stop feeding...any aggression towards him/her ?

Both fish are a concern for me. The angel - The white spots seem to be increasing but not "salt" (granular) like so am not sure it is Ich and now I see a spot on his body..... perhaps fungus? The fins were picked on by the previous bully but the spots seem to be increasing even after his removal.....The Ram looks good except for being thin and occasionally scratching/flashing against the substrate. I may have two separate issues to deal with but I think I need to treat the whole tank.
I have had the ram for about a month, no one bullies him and he does not appear to be stressed with his enviroment; as far as I know he has not been eating for approx 3-4 days. I have been watching and he follows the female around and picks at the sand, but not where any food is....he just watches her eat. I was stupid and did not quaratine the angels when I got them and apparently am paying for it now. I am just not sure what/how to treat........I do not want to lose my fish. :wall:

[Star_Rider]

what's your water change schedule?

I would up the water changes and use a good conditioner like prime.

the ram not eating is a problem..unfortunately I have seen quite a few parasite inflicted fish as of late.

but not eating could be a sign of an internal bacterial infection.

if you treat for bacterial you will need to watch your bio filter.. problem with bacteria you need to try and determine if it's gram+ or gram -..there are wide spectrum treatments but I do not like to use anti biotics unless I am pretty sure it's bacterial.

my SOP for fish it to qt them for 4 weeks and treat for parasites.
if you haven't done this i would be more prone to believe this could be the issue with your ram.. the flashing is bothersome tho as it is usually something irritating the fish.

what conditioner are you using ?

[Coler]

I agree with all that.

I'd up the water changes to get nitrates way way low - like 10 or less - and hopefully the Angel will recover.

My first thought when I saw the ram was that he looks like a fish with internal parasites...any chance you could QT him and try and target feed him while you observe him a bit more...if he started eating and stayed scrawny you'd definitely treat for parasites.

[Star_Rider]

I agree..if you can isolate and watch it will help.
the only problem is..some of the internal parasites cause the fish to stop eating.
the thought is the parasite irritates the digestive tract and the food is difficult to swallow.

[noodles62]

I did a 30% w/c last night. I always do weekly w/c of 30 - 40% I will be picking up a QT tank tomorrow and will remove the ram for observation/feeding & probable treatment.
I use amquel+ water treatment w/ every w/c; I cannot find Prime locally. I have been doing more research and am also getting concerned w/ my bio wheels and what will happen w/ medications....it is very frustrating to not know WHAT to treat for. I have certainly learned my lesson about QT new fish...

[Star_Rider]

make sure you have a filter for the new tank.. use squeezins from the existing filter to seed the new filter.

treat with anti biotics in a hosptial tank..I find anti parasite meds have little to no effect on bacteria. so you can safely treat the main tank for parasites(recommended as parasites shed and can infect a tank)
problem is many meds have no effect on parasite eggs.
so watch the main tank.

parasites can be pesky and difficult to erradicate.

[noodles62]

will do. Thanks for your help. If you think of anything else, let me know. I will post back when I see any changes......

[noodles62]

Well, I may have found my problem. I do not havea complete test kit - just the basic 3 - so I took a sample to my LFS - the used an API kit and here are the results; Ammonia 0; nitrite 0; nitrate 0 (?!) and the biggy PH 8.7!!!!! They told me that this certainly can cause a fish to stop eating ( and ultimately die!) They only thing I have changed in the tank over the past 2 weeks is added my rock cave structured which I made using flagstone and aqu. safe silicone... I will be doing a 75% water change tonite when I get home and then take another sample in the morning for testing. If it rises up again - it's gotta be the rocks! Any thoughts from the experts?

p.s why are my nitrates 0?!?!

[Star_Rider]

from wikipedia

"The material that binds flagstone is usually composed of silica, calcium, or iron oxide."


I would perform a test using mild acid to see if the rock bubbles(vinegar or other mild acid)

[noodles62]

ARG!! I will do a vinegar test on some left over rock when I get home. Hopefully there will not be any casualties yet!