Under Attack!!! And the algea is winning

[Jamie]

Yikes!! I have never dealt with algea like this. Then again, I have never had a planted tank before. Any way, algea is out of control. After a bit of searching the web I have concluded that it is thread algea. To me, I think it's the "whole darn spool" algea. 4 days ago I did a 50% water change and cleaned up as much of the algea I could. I then messed with my filter a bit to see if I could increase my CO2 concentration. Well what I did worked...to an extent...I woke up this morning with a wet livingroom floor, but that's for another post. Well to get back on the subject, CO2 concentrations are up, plants are pearling (yeah) and algea is out of control. After just 4 days it has completely taken over my tank. I will clean it again today but do not doubt that it will rear its ugly head again and again and etc. After the water change, it seemed like this stuff grew 10X faster than before. I stopped adding ferts before the change since I thought ferts were causing the problem initially. I don't know what to do. I know that the beginning stages of a planted tank are the hardest, trying to figure out the "balance". Well I plead for someone to hold my hand because I'm about to fall over my balance is so bad. Any ideas/suggestions.

[Booswalia]

I'm not the best one to help you out here but I know the first thing......

.....you'll have to give your readings and tank specs.

..... I do know that thread algae can be caused from too much iron.

.....and I do know about cleaning up the livingroom floor. :rolleyes:

[Timmain42]

...and we'll also need to know how much you are dosing of which chemicals. You'll most likely need to go back on the ferts to maintain the delicate balance.

[rdmpe]

First step is to make sure your water is in decent shape. Heavy algae is normal in a planted tank with plenty of light and nutrients and relatively young or unestablished plants. So your water may not be a big problem, just have to get all the right ingredients for your little biosphere...

My advice, find a couple of Siamese Algae Eaters. Be very careful to get the real thing, as there are some similar looking fish that don't eat the thread/hair algae. I had to look for several weeks to find them in the Central Florida area. Here is some more info on them.

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html

Also, get yourself a couple of Oto cats and a bunch (several dozen would be a good start) of Malaysian Trumpet Snails. These snails are great for a planted tank, they help keep the substrate turned over, and eat algae like crazy but they don't damage live plants. I have hundreds in my tanks with no problems at all. You can buy them from www.aquabid.com usually.

The all-star algae team:
Siamese Algae Eaters
Otocinclus Catfish
Malaysian Trumpet Snails

[Jamie]

I want to throw in the towel. I've physically cleaned out about half of this crap. I was only able to get the long strands of the algea out. Some of the strands were about 2 ft long!!!! This stuff is everywhere. It looks horrible. There are some spots that I just can't clean out. It still has a gross looking film over the majority of my drift wood and a good amount on my substrate. Not to mention that this stuff is all in my plants. I too have read that this stuff is caused by too much iron...but I haven't dosed iron except for flourish two weeks ago. and I have done a water change since then. I have flourite and I know it is high in iron as well as flourish root tabs. but this stuff is in the substrate. I'm lost. I don't know what to do. I feel like pulling the tank apart and throwing this whole planted tank idea out the window. I've never had trouble like this. This hobby is supposed to be enjoyable and relaxing. Instead I feel quite discouraged with all the problems I've encountered with this planted tank. Any indeas on if this algea would grow in the tank if I converted it into a cichlid tank. I'd still use the same PC lighting and flourite for the substrate. I'd just have lots more rocks less plants...maybe just some anubias and others that can tolerate hard water. I wouldn't fertilize or inject CO2. I'm about ready to do this. I don't have the time to deal with all of this maintenance. Arrrrggghhhhh!

[Starry]

No one gets it right the first time. Are you willing to work for it, or are you just lazy and don't want it that bad? :) You know you want it. So...
I don't think anyone is gonna give you a reply that will make this go away overnight. You're gonna have to stick with it, because it will take a few months.
First thing - how many plants do you have, and what kinds? Get a LOT of fast-growing, ugly plants. Well, not really, but people seem to think that fast = ugly. So, get some water wisteria (Hygrophila difformis), water sprite, hornwort, Limnophila.... Lots and lots of them! Until you can't squish in any more. Don't buy anything expensive.
And keep fertilizing. If your plants aren't happy, the algae will never leave. Add tons of potassium (to about 20-25ppm), phosphate (to about 1 ppm), traces (you can go higher than the recommended amount). Nitrate not as important in my experience, but make sure you have at least 5ppm. Crank up the CO2, to about 25ppm. I can't give you advice on iron because I've never dosed it separately, just what's in the flourite and TMG.
But, in the end, nothing will make it go away as fast as you want it to. Just keep at it, do weekly water changes, and don't buy expensive plants yet. Siamese algae eaters may not be a bad idea, but I can't give you advice on them either. Whatever you do, don't start over.

[Hebdizzle]

have you tried a blackout yet? stop dosing nutrients and co2 and cover the tank with a dark material so that NO light will get in. Do this for 3 days, you plants and fish should be okay (don't worry about food or anything) hopefully when you take the covers off the algae will be controlled dying and you will be able to kill it!

Aaron

[Starry]

Originally posted by Hebdizzle
have you tried a blackout yet? stop dosing nutrients and co2 and cover the tank with a dark material so that NO light will get in. Do this for 3 days, you plants and fish should be okay (don't worry about food or anything) hopefully when you take the covers off the algae will be controlled dying and you will be able to kill it!

Aaron

Sorry, but I have to disagree. In my experience this doesn't work for thread algae, and even if it did, it would come back within a week. The plants don't need this right now either.

[The Gipper]

Take a deep breath!

I started my 120 up in May, and had two viscious outbreaks of green water along with algae. My mistakes:

(1) It was suggested to me to start with large amounts of fast growing bunch plants, no fish, get things balanced, then pull some of the plants out and add more cool plants after a while when things were looking good. I was not patient enough to do this. I wanted some cooler plants right away so I thought I could bend the rules a bit. I cut back on the fast growing stuff and added other plants I should have waited for, and paid for it!

(2) Adding fish and plants together right off the bat. The suggestions to me were to get the plants going well first, then add some fish later. Again, I wasn't that patient and wanted to jump start right in with both plants and fish.

(3) Added KNO3, K2SO4, Fluorish right from the get-go. Along with CO2 and my 350w of light, I added way too many nutrients too soon before the plants could take hold and utilize them. This helped the algae take hold.

These three things were enough to throw my tank way out of wack.

However, now, I have the plants I want and fish, and the tank is doing great. I did have to rip virtually all my plants out that I started with and start over the right way. It worked.

[750t]

I feel for ya. Not to bring you down any. I have been waging war for 4 months now. I tried the 3 day blackout algea came right back. I tried no ferts no avail. But my biggest problem was lack of co2. After months of fiddling with diy co2, I finally found the solution. The jello yeast method. It works great. Now I have a constant 20ppm of co2.
So now that problem is over, the hair algea seems to be in control and wham this black algea rears its ugly head. So here I go again. But I refuse to let this get the best of me. Why because the looks of planted tank are outstanding,even with the algea. I will beat this. I wish you the best and keep on. Tim

[rich]

"And keep fertilizing. If your plants aren't happy, the algae will never leave. Add tons of potassium (to about 20-25ppm), phosphate (to about 1 ppm), traces (you can go higher than the recommended amount). Nitrate not as important in my experience, but make sure you have at least 5ppm. Crank up the CO2, to about 25ppm"

wouldnt doing this cause an overabundance of nutriants? if the plants failed to absorb all of this the algae would have a feild day on whatever was left over.

mabye theres a large amount of iron in your tap water?

what plants and how many do you have going right now? how long has the tank been going?

what are your chem tests reading?

[djlen]

Jamie, there is an answer for this but we can't supply it without your tank stats, types of plants in the tank, and how much of what fertilizer you are dosing. Have you added any 'root tabs' and are you using laterite?
Also, what is your CO2 ppm.
Supply the info and you'll get the answers.

A black-out may work but the algae will come back until you correct the problem and find the balance.

Take a few minutes to give us the requested info. In the meantime, cut your dosing of PO4 and NO3 temporarily, and large frequent water changes with gravel vaccing(not deep, but thorough) can only help slow the algae down. It thrives in dirty water.

Many of us have been where you are now and have come through it with a lesson learned.

Len

[Starry]

Originally posted by rich
"And keep fertilizing. If your plants aren't happy, the algae will never leave. Add tons of potassium (to about 20-25ppm), phosphate (to about 1 ppm), traces (you can go higher than the recommended amount). Nitrate not as important in my experience, but make sure you have at least 5ppm. Crank up the CO2, to about 25ppm"

wouldnt doing this cause an overabundance of nutriants? if the plants failed to absorb all of this the algae would have a feild day on whatever was left over.



Yes, I suppose it is counterintuitive to add fertilizers. But if you have a lot of light and CO2, your plants still won't grow if they don't have the nutrients. The algae will use up whatever little there is in the tap water, but it's not be enough for the plants. Algae will only die off when the plants are growing well. It doesn't happen overnight because the plants need time to establish themselves and get stronger. But eventually, plants win. I would also like to add that a completely algae-free planted tank is pretty rare, if possible at all. But a little never hurt anyone.

[Jamie]

Here's what I have to dose: KCL, Phosphate (Fleet), KNO3, MgSO4, Flourish.

Here's my levels: K...? I added as per chucks, NO3 around 15 ppm, my GH is 4 degrees, my KH is 3.5 degrees, pH is 6.7-6.8. This gives me a CO2 concentration of about 20 ppm. I added MgSO4 as per chucks. My phosphate is .2. I know this seems low...may be a problem but my water co adds all sorts of phosphates so I left it alone even though the flourish test kit puts it at about .2. Trace elements - FLourish...though I haven't dosed in a week and a half. I stopped dosing flourish because the day after I dosed it a second time during the first week I started really noticing the algea...now it is intolerable. My tank is completely over-run by it. The tank looks like it has a gigantic dull green cobweb in it. Talk about an eye sore when the tank is 150 gallons. I cleaned the algea out yesterday and it is almost completely back today. I can practically watch this stuff grow in real time. Iron - I'm not sure, I bought the flourish iron tester and it read zero - but I have my doubts. I'm using flourite as my substrate and have flourish root tabs near my 2 compacta swords and 2 melon swords as well as a couple others throughout near my bunches. Ithink I used a total of 6 or 7, all about 1 in under the flourite.

Plants: Large section of water wisteria, very large sections of rotalla indica and tropical sunset hygro, small bit of scarlet temple, good sized section of bacopa carolina. 6 java ferns, 3 anubias nanas, 3 crypts bronze wendeti's, 4 banana plants, 2 compacta swords, 2 melon swords

Finally getting my CO2 up, my plants have been pearling - which just means they are producing too much O2, over-photosynthesizing I guess. But at least they are photosynthesising. Since I have put the plants in 2 weeks ago, they have rooted in pretty well. I tried moving some of the bacopa and they already had a decent roots growing on them. Unfortunately, the algea is growing the best. It completely covers the plants - which I'm sure is a hinderance to their growth. Like I keep saying, this stuff is way out of control. My tank looks like a hideous green slimey, sludgy, algea machine. BTW, when I cleaned out the algea yesterday, I left some out on the edge of my tank...I have combing instead of a center brace.....and boy did it smell foul by today. Disgusting!!

[Tempest]

Eeks!!! Is the ammonia and nitrite staying at 0 for you?

And this junk is slimy looking, not really hairy?

[djlen]

Your nitrates are high. Your phosphates are low. But I don't think this is the biggest issue. I think you may have disturbed some of the root tabs along the way. Think that' a possibility?
Maybe I missed it somewhere along the way, but I can't find your watts/gal. on this thread. What is the wattage?
I'm not a big fan of setting up a tank and starting to fertilize heavily right from the get-go. And especially when your CO2 isn't giving you at-least 20ppm
Many plants are grown emmersed, under almost ideal conditions, and then we put them into a tank under less than perfect conditions, and that has not had an opportunity to build a decent bio filter and expect them to perform. There is a lag time for them to adapt. Under high light conditions, this could also be a part of the problem.
If it's a thread algae and it was my tank, I would do a 3 - day black-out to clear out the algae and then pump up the CO2 and fertilize lightly to start again.

Len

[Jamie]

Len, thanks as always. I have 2 wpg. that's 300 watts of AHSupply PC Lighting over my 150. This stuff is more hairy than slimy. I'm assuming it's thread algea just based on the fact that this stuff grows in lengths up to 2 ft in my tank. from what i've read, it's the only algea characterized by this size. i will try the black out and do another water change to get the nitrates down some more... . should i black it out first or do the water change first? also, should i cut out the co2 throughout the black out? I have fish in the tank and with out the co2 my ph will sky rocket. As horrible as this sounds, the fish are secondary. they're no fun if i can't see/enjoy them. one thing to note, every morning when i wake up, the algea appears to have been growing strait through the night. it is often much longer in the morning compared to when i last saw it the night before. will a continuous black out cure this? worst case, i'll just have more of this stuff. one good thing thats happened thus far is that my fish haven't been dying off for about a week now :) how would one go about fixing conditions created by a disturbed root tab? i think this could be a possibility, though i'm not really sure. but if there is anything i can do...i'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

[The Gipper]

I'm not sure of the effectiveness of a blackout on your type of algae. I've always seen reference to blackout in conjunction with green water. If you do one, make sure to turn off CO2 during this, and of course add no traces.

Your plant selection sounds OK, but you made my mistake of adding fish early.

[GhoriG]

Add algae eaters. Black mollies, rosy barbs and don't feed
them. If it's the soft fluffy kind of algae - the kind that
disintegrates as you're removing it - it'll be gone within
a few days. Its caused by too much iron.

[djlen]

Yes, turn off the CO2 and if your filter has one, raise the spray bar.
Do a 50% water change. Cover the tank completely allowing no light in. After two days, uncover partially and do another water change. Resist the temptation to feed the fish and turn on the lights. Re-cover immediately and if possible give it another 2 days of darkness, followed by another water change. Then turn on the lights and jack up the CO2 to reach 25 - 30ppm.
Check your water parameters and dose 15mls. traces, 1/4 tsp. of K2SO4 or KCl for each 30 gals of water. Dose the KCl(I think that's what you're using) DRY, right into the intake side of a HOB filter if that's what you have or mix the dosage with a large glass of water and pour in slowly, avoiding pouring right onto the fish. Dose PO4 only if reading zero. Dose KNO3 only if less than 5ppm and only 1/4 tsp. at this time. Dose no Fe at this time.
Like the Gipper, since I'm not positive of the exact type of algae you have, I'm hoping that the blackout will be effective.
If it was my tank I would go to the LFS the day I was going to uncover the tank and buy some floaters(watersprite, salvinia, egeria, pennywort etc.) as they will aid the other plants in using nutrients and also help shade the tank to some degree. The best nutrient hogs are the cheapest to buy, but are the most effective for this purpose. You'll want to keep them around for a while until your plants get well established.
Your plants pearling(due to good CO2) is a very good sign and we just need to get rid of the GLOP that covers them.
Your fish will be fine for 4 days without food.
If this cleans up the alage and you do the right things and the algae STILL reappears, the odds are that you have one or more root tabs loose in the tank and you'll then have to do a deep gravel vac and try to suck them out.
Let's wait on that to see what happens.
I'm no Tom Barr by any means, but this has worked for me under similar circumstances, so I'm hoping for the best for you..........

Len

[Gomer]

I'm supprised no was has recommended getting a True SAE (beware of all the false ones). I have a 29g with one and it has never had thread algae. My 10g doesn't have an SAE and it gets a little.

I know this is a bandaide, but it will give visible results and will give some hope. It also allows a better window of opportunity to get it under control at the source.