Teachers with guns.. about time?!

[Bk718]

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1538661720080815

[Riiz]

I wouldnt see anything wrong with public school teachers carrying Tazers, lol.

[Bk718]

DONT TAZE ME BRO.. im sure all the kids will be teasing the teacher with that lol

[equus_peduus]

Seems to me that if teachers (and especially if students, like the article mentioned some want) carried legal guns... the possibility for increased violence during one of these "shootout" situations could escalate and end up with even more death and destruction. And if one of these teachers did shoot and kill some kid with his dad's gun going on a rampage, what then? Is the teacher going to go down for murder?

[125gJoe]

DONT TAZE ME BRO.. im sure all the kids will be teasing the teacher with that lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc

:D

________

[Cheech]

I'm not a big fan of guns. . .

[IceH2O]

I don't know about teachers with guns. Our middle and high schools have cops who have guns at the schools in case of something like that.

Every school I went to back in the day had a teacher that flipped on a student and either punched them or choked them out. I'd hate to see what would have happened if that teacher was carrying instead.

[J double R]

I'm not a fan of the idea either...

cops are trained and authorized to use their weapons, and yet they get scrutinized and often persecuted when they are forced to use them.

imagine what society would think if the person was a teacher.

[wetwillyjoe69]

teachers are public servants, they wouldnt be charged with murder, but i would be concerned with their shooting abilities. i'm military, its not difficult to shoot a weapon, but some of these old fogies who still teach because their tenure cant get them fired is troublesome. in k-12 anyway, kids can't carry a pistol leagaly because of being 21. those same kids need to graduate before they turn 21 also. rent-a-cops in school is not protection. in colleges though im all for student with valid CWP to carry pistols. if you were going to shoot a up a school, what is more of a deterant: A: a student body with cellphones? B: or a student body with glocks, .45's, and kimbers?

[Cheech]

I'm not a fan of the idea either...

cops are trained and authorized to use their weapons, and yet they get scrutinized and often persecuted when they are forced to use them.

imagine what society would think if the person was a teacher.


Very good point. I'm not a cop but I'm sure they go through a lot of training when it comes to not losing your cool and only using a gun as a last resort. I say leave the gun use to the professional, especially when it involves children and teens.

[Alan R]

Cool. I wonder how many teachers for only 110 students? I'm glad their doing that.

[excuzzzeme]

Teachers should not have guns! We have enough violence in our schools as it is. Yes, there are those that represent a threat but another gun will not help.

Using a weapon in stressful conditions when trained to do so is not the easiest thing in the world. The Military and Police/Security do not score 100% all the time as TV would have you to believe. The average among them is about 80%. A teacher is not trained as well by any means nor even close to it. They will experience "Buck Fever" and are more likely to harm innocents than the threat itself. Leave it to the police.

[Cheech]

Teachers should not have guns! We have enough violence in our schools as it is. Yes, there are those that represent a threat but another gun will not help.

Using a weapon in stressful conditions when trained to do so is not the easiest thing in the world. The Military and Police/Security do not score 100% all the time as TV would have you to believe. The average among them is about 80%. A teacher is not trained as well by any means nor even close to it. They will experience "Buck Fever" and are more likely to harm innocents than the threat itself. Leave it to the police.


exactly. Very well said.

[bluekrissyspike]

well, i don't think it would be needed in my country cause there's not that many people carrying guns around, but i understand why they would want to in some states where there are illegal guns everywhere and places that are plagued by gang violence amongst young people.

[petluvr]

teachers are public servants, they wouldnt be charged with murder, but i would be concerned with their shooting abilities. i'm military, its not difficult to shoot a weapon, but some of these old fogies who still teach because their tenure cant get them fired is troublesome. in k-12 anyway, kids can't carry a pistol leagaly because of being 21. those same kids need to graduate before they turn 21 also. rent-a-cops in school is not protection. in colleges though im all for student with valid CWP to carry pistols. if you were going to shoot a up a school, what is more of a deterant: A: a student body with cellphones? B: or a student body with glocks, .45's, and kimbers?
What do you mean by "teachers are public servants they wouldn't be charged with murder?" Just recently there was a judge in my area that was charged with murder. Just because you are a public servant doesn't mean you are beyond the law.

[chefjamesscott]

i can see the headlines now

teacher goes on rampage wounding colleagues killing the principal and critically wounding 5 others till the secretary bagged him with her 45, and the janitor pulled out his deagle and is now holed up inthe cafeteria

[chefjamesscott]

on the other hand if they are provided an intensive training program and pass the psych testing them having a gun might be a good idea but i say rather security at the door would do fine

non trained people with guns smells like disaster and what if the teacher cracks a shot at a target an misses an blows away an innocent

or worse yet what if the teacher has a breakdown an commits suicide

or what if they forget about this thing called a safety and it happens to go off by accident when they close the drawer

or what if the teacher who has the gun has not idea on the concept of self defense and take down and gets disarmed by someone intending to do damage then you have just provided the assailant with an easy weapon

just random thoughts

[J double R]

teachers are public servants, they wouldnt be charged with murder, but i would be concerned with their shooting abilities. i'm military, its not difficult to shoot a weapon, but some of these old fogies who still teach because their tenure cant get them fired is troublesome. in k-12 anyway, kids can't carry a pistol leagaly because of being 21. those same kids need to graduate before they turn 21 also. rent-a-cops in school is not protection. in colleges though im all for student with valid CWP to carry pistols. if you were going to shoot a up a school, what is more of a deterant: A: a student body with cellphones? B: or a student body with glocks, .45's, and kimbers?


yes.... instead of a shooting rampage, enable an all-out war where every joe freaking schmoe that gets approved for a CWP can point and shoot at anyone THEY think is the perpetrator? :rolleyes:

i'll agree to that if you agree to go to every single innocent person's funeral that died by the hand of all those "legal" vigilantes in a situation like that.

[J double R]

on the other hand if they are provided an intensive training program and pass the psych testing them having a gun might be a good idea but i say rather security at the door would do fine

non trained people with guns smells like disaster and what if the teacher cracks a shot at a target an misses an blows away an innocent

or worse yet what if the teacher has a breakdown an commits suicide

or what if they forget about this thing called a safety and it happens to go off by accident when they close the drawer

or what if the teacher who has the gun has not idea on the concept of self defense and take down and gets disarmed by someone intending to do damage then you have just provided the assailant with an easy weapon

just random thoughts


all valid points as well.

[jpappy789]

From someone who is actually still in a public school the thought of anybody with guns in the school scares me. I see too many "what ifs"...

[Bk718]

idk i think you guys are going 2 much into it. The article did not include alot of information. Though when was the last time did news report the full story???
So instead of running assumptions here and saying silly things like the teachers going on a rampage look deeper into the story and or do some more info on it.

Heres a quote from another news site which says:

"In order for teachers and staff to carry a pistol, they must have a Texas license to carry a concealed handgun; must be authorized to carry by the district; must receive training in crisis management and hostile situations and must use ammunition that is designed to minimize the risk of ricochet in school halls."

heres something else interesting

"While the district's plan shot them into the national spotlight, carrying guns to school is nothing new some states. In Utah, the law allows anyone with a permit to carry a gun in public schools and state institutions of higher education"


I would like to know how that practice is going in Utah.

and finally something else for you guys to talk about is the point that :

"When the federal government started making schools gun-free zones, that's when all of these shootings started. Why would you put it out there that a group of people can't defend themselves? That's like saying 'sic 'em' to a dog," Thweatt said in Friday's online edition of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram"

[jpappy789]

Teachers are human. Training them isn't going to insure that something wont go wrong. I'm not saying that something will, but I still see no point. My school of 2500 students has only one city officer patrolling the school during the day and no problems with violence. Maybe it's just the area but unless this school of 110 has had problems in the past I see no reason to "prevent" shootings by giving teachers guns. How can students feel at ease knowing that their teacher has a gun in their desk?

[Bk718]

its texas.. lol who doesnt have a gun? j/k

The whole point thats leading them to pass this, is due to previous rampage shootings like VT, columbine and a few other similar incidents.

[J double R]

well, arm the teachers, and you bet my kid will be going to a different school. arm them all, and she'll be learning at home.


that's my last on it.

[Bk718]

Well J how different is arming a teacher with having an armed security guard in the school? Basically the same thing. Both need to know how to use it and when to use it. And im sure they wont just leave the gun in an open drawer..


Plus the "news" says that they will not say how many of the actual 50 teachers will carry a gun.

later ill try and get some more info on Utah and their gun laws. See if there were any problems with it.

[austinpetemo]

hey! jimmy i told you to sit down and do your assignment! hey! oh thats it BANG BANG BANG

[Lady G]

OMG...I am so mixed on this. Teachers in our public schools put up with so much they take care of our kids everyday (many times kids that have parents that just don't care) many of these kids have been allowed to do what ever it is they want as long as they are not bothering their parents. Many times the parents are accused of extreamly bad things for trying to correct what their children have done. We have a generation of children who think they are owed everything. A generation that thinks they can do what ever they want because either the parents truely do not care....or the parents care but are pentilized because they do what they think is right to "disapline" their children. They feel nothing they do should be their fault, they think eveyone else is to blame for anything they do....when we pay ppl to do what we as parents can't even do, then expect more from them for less then we make on a daily bases to put up with what most can not even handle, what do we expect?
The kids they are trying to take care of are the most disrespectful ppl I've ever been around, they can do nothing to protect their selfs...when they do anything they are put down...when they do nothing they are put down...what exactly do we expect from them???
To those who say it would cause MORE problems I say put yourself in the room, in the situation...see what you think. I know if I knew my teacher or class mate had a gun, if I was thinking of using one well I would think more about it. These kids know they can blame someone else, most likely get away with it and have nothing happen to them. IF they knew the teacher or possible class mate had a gun also, maybe they would think twice before doing it.

[Slappy*McFish]

ridiculous...

[chefjamesscott]

[quote=Bk828;1572777]Well J how different is arming a teacher with having an armed security guard in the school? Basically the same thing. Both need to know how to use it and when to use it.


well bk it is not basically the same thing you see teachers are not military unless of course your at a military college like west point

and hey as ex military candian forces ill go against a teacher any day just because a teacher has some rudimentary training with a pistol does not mean they are on the same ranking as a trained security gaurd ask anyone who is military and you will see my family history is rooted all the way back to being highlanders who fought alongside the scotts against the britts
most recentlyl my grandfather was shot down in ww2 buried in uden he was flight commander, my dad was a navy diver underwater welder and i was mp was headed to do the canadian equivalent of the seals but did not continue when i saw that the united nations was beginning to dictate what an where

so all this lengthly stuff being said there is no way a teacher and a trained security gaurd are even on the same playing field:grinno:


NOW IF YOU WERE TO GIVE THE TEACHER A CAN OF MACE OR A TAZER GUN THAT WOULD BE AWESOME

now johnny im gonna tellyou one last time sit down an do your assignment zappppp

[Slappy*McFish]

Yup, guns are designed to kill and don't belong in our school systems. Only Police and Security personnel should be allowed to carry arms.

[jpappy789]

Well J how different is arming a teacher with having an armed security guard in the school? Basically the same thing. Both need to know how to use it and when to use it. And im sure they wont just leave the gun in an open drawer..


Plus the "news" says that they will not say how many of the actual 50 teachers will carry a gun.

later ill try and get some more info on Utah and their gun laws. See if there were any problems with it.

A police officer and a teacher are two different professions...

[Slappy*McFish]

I think some schools should just continue with metal detecting and student searches for weapons. Arming the teachers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[wildman117]

ok people keep saying that teachers are not cops or security guards but then neither are the kids
think about it say a kid starts shooting in the classroom and you don't have a cop in every room then what will happen to all the kids in that room
and the idea is to stop shootings so how is giving them mace or a tazer going to stop a shooting
i am currently enrolled in high school and their is 1 cop for the 800 kids in my school and would actually feel safer if the teachers were armed
but before you arm them make them go through the same training as a cop or guard and then let them carry a gun
and i hate the "if you give them guns then people will kill everybody" because i can pick up a gun and not shoot anybody so i think that if you have a decent plan as to who gets guns it will keep the violence down by making a threat to the wrong doers and will make them think twice
i feel this because i live around the D.C. area and i recall the sniper going around and every time a white van would go by we would lock down and i remember thinking why doesn't somebody do something
now would i want the kids carrying guns no
but i think it is a good idea
and remember before the training cops are just regular people so if you train the teachers it would be the same
overall i think it is a good idea that needs to be refined more

[Bk718]

A police officer and a teacher are two different professions...

look back to my post, said that both will receive the training on how to use a gun, when to use it and how to behave in a crisis situation. So in the end its the same thing. Both are trained

[Lady G]

I think some schools should just continue with metal detecting and student searches for weapons. Arming the teachers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
That on the outside seems a good idea...the problem is, kids get in the school then a friend hands the gun to them through a window or something.

look back to my post, said that both will receive the training on how to use a gun, when to use it and how to behave in a crisis situation. So in the end its the same thing. Both are trained
Agreed!!:grinyes:

[jm1212]

this is a tough one.

theoretically it might "help" with security, but the only problem i can see is if one of the kids got their hands on a gun. sure, the teachers may be able to protect the kids if there was a real lockdown because one of the students or an intruder was going nuts. another problem would be is if the teacher take them out to much (during fights, etc) just to scare the kids into stopping. sooner or later, the kids just are not going to care anymore, because they know the teachers arent going to shoot them.

and thats coming from a kid who goes to a school where a girl was beaten with a padlock and taken to the hospital on a stretcher.

[excuzzzeme]

Well J how different is arming a teacher with having an armed security guard in the school? Basically the same thing. Both need to know how to use it and when to use it. And im sure they wont just leave the gun in an open drawer.. . . . . . .

Having an armed security Guard that has been properly trained is a lot different than having a teacher with no security/police/military training being trained to use a weapon. You simply cannot compare the two. Proper training is so intense it is something you never forget. Familiarization with a weapon and laws can be forgotten This is why police and ex-military are often sought after for armed guard positions. Training goes way beyond weapons handling, that's the least of it.

As far as not being left in an open drawer, I sure wouldn't bet my child's life on it. You can bet your child's safety on it if you want.

[J double R]

ok people keep saying that teachers are not cops or security guards but then neither are the kids

so take the guns away from the kids.


think about it say a kid starts shooting in the classroom and you don't have a cop in every room then what will happen to all the kids in that room
and the idea is to stop shootings so how is giving them mace or a tazer going to stop a shooting


you try to shoot someone while an electrical current-engineered tazer is rippling painful waves through your body and electrically incapacitating every muscle in your body.


i am currently enrolled in high school and their is 1 cop for the 800 kids in my school and would actually feel safer if the teachers were armed
but before you arm them make them go through the same training as a cop or guard and then let them carry a gun


do you understand the training required for proper use of a weapon, not to mention crisis management, and then overcoming the panic and adrenalin rush when you have to draw that weapon? I do.


and i hate the "if you give them guns then people will kill everybody" because i can pick up a gun and not shoot anybody so i think that if you have a decent plan as to who gets guns it will keep the violence down by making a threat to the wrong doers and will make them think twice


They don't care about laws, or human life, what makes you think theyre gonna think twice about a teacher with a gun or their own life?



and remember before the training cops are just regular people so if you train the teachers it would be the same


again.. it is not a simple weekend course in gun safety.

[jpappy789]

look back to my post, said that both will receive the training on how to use a gun, when to use it and how to behave in a crisis situation. So in the end its the same thing. Both are trained

But for cops its their profession. The number one priority for teachers should be teaching, not worrying about gun control or crisis management.


Having an armed security Guard that has been properly trained is a lot different than having a teacher with no security/police/military training being trained to use a weapon. You simply cannot compare the two. Proper training is so intense it is something you never forget. Familiarization with a weapon and laws can be forgotten This is why police and ex-military are often sought after for armed guard positions. Training goes way beyond weapons handling, that's the least of it.

As far as not being left in an open drawer, I sure wouldn't bet my child's life on it. You can bet your child's safety on it if you want.

:iagree:

[Bk718]

Alright i guess ill just say one last thing and then will let the topic go to thread grave yard..

We dont know what exactly the teachers will have to go through to carry the gun. One news site says it will be a gun license, another website says full training. Bottom line is that we cannot say that the training will be less of any school security guard. Its not like they made the decision over night and force an almost retired Mrs. Johnson to carry a 500 Mag the following morning.

Im sure they have planned everything out and viewed all the negatives/positives of the issue, I mean they mustve brought a well prepared case to the parents for the parents to be fine with it. And if Utah is fine with their gun control in school rules then im sure this little district will pull through and be fine as well.

Though I might add, most schools tops have one cop who actually carries a firearm. And its unreal for a school to have 10-20 cops watching every door/window/corner of the school.

[Slappy*McFish]

Having more security guards sounds like a better plan to me than arming the teachers. One guard per hallway/entrance/exit would be more than enough. I think one or two guards per floor would be plenty actually. I'd add metal detectors at all the exits and surveillance cameras around every corner, as well.

No plan is absolutely fool proof. Sure, some kids may find a way to get guns in the school, but their chances of causing mass destruction are greatly reduced with the proper security measures.

Teachers should just focus on teaching. Leave security to the professionals.

[J double R]

Having more security guards sounds like a better plan to me than arming the teachers. One guard per hallway/entrance/exit would be more than enough. I think one or two guards per floor would be plenty actually. I'd add metal detectors at all the exits and surveillance cameras around every corner, as well.

No plan is absolutely fool proof. Sure, some kids may find a way to get guns in the school, but their chances of causing mass destruction are greatly reduced with the proper security measures.

Teachers should just focus on teaching. Leave security to the professionals.


exactly. well said, slap.

[chefjamesscott]

[quote=wildman117;1574084]and the idea is to stop shootings so how is giving them mace or a tazer going to stop a shooting

ok wildman let me ask you have you ever been maced or tazered

if yes let me ask you could you draw a solid bead on a target

if no let me tell you once you been maced or tazered the last thing you gonna be able to do is aim well enough to hit the side of a barn let alone a person

[chefjamesscott]

[quote=excuzzzeme;1574888]Having an armed security Guard that has been properly trained is a lot different than having a teacher with no security/police/military training being trained to use a weapon. You simply cannot compare the two. Proper training is so intense it is something you never forget. Familiarization with a weapon and laws can be forgotten This is why police and ex-military are often sought after for armed guard positions. Training goes way beyond weapons handling, that's the least of it.

to this i will say a HEARTY TRUE THAT

i have never been the same since going through training nor will i ever be the same its one thing to think about how to shoot someone its another to have spent years being trained how to kill people ask anyone who is a trained armed forces regardless of the branch who has been made combat ready and you will find out without a doubt that they have this little thing called a kill switch that turn on instant an in season something which a teacher does not have

yet one other thing killing people was not the only thing we trained for but it was the focal point the only good enemy is a dead enemy was our motto