I give up on White Clouds...

I had (6) on Friday morning. (I had bought 4 new ones from the store along with the 2 survivors and put them in after a long acclimation Tuesday.)

Friday evening one died, for unknown reasons, as I mentioned in my temperature thread. (I figured it couldn't have been the temperature after all?)

Saturday something showed up on the webcam but I couldn't tell for sure (ended up being Loss No. 2). This morning I came in, No. 2 was on the filter, Loss No. 3 was still laying on the gravel, so it must have gone Sunday.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Now I have three and I'm more or less waiting for them to die too.

It might be the pH - I don't know what is happening but it's up around 7.7 or 7.8 and it's staying there and not coming down, despite twice weekly 50% water changes, and all the aragonite was removed from the filter this weekend after the first loss, and new supposedly softer water added.

After I found the losses this morning, I did an intense gravel vaccuuming - because of the gravel and the finer Eco-complete substrate (how does anyone clean this stuff!) there was a slight build up in the gravel - but it couldn't really have been that bad, there's only been a handful of fish at any time, and I feed 3-4 small meals during the day while I'm sitting here and can watch them eat it (because they'll go 2 days on the weekend without eating, I try and fatten em up throughout the week in small meals.)

Anyway, I pulled out a pound of gravel, because I had about 3-4" of substrate, at the time thinking it would help the plants grow. Well obviously it's too difficult to clean properly, so I probably won't miss it, and got it down to 1.5-2".

I just tested though and after doing an 8 gallon water change, I finally have the pH down to 7.2. Ok so maybe it'll hold out for the rest of the white clouds. :/


I'm not sure I like this Flourish-y substrate stuff. Every time I do a gravel vac, it stirs up dust and it's like the water is dusty for an hour or longer (it's really dusty now.)

Is that going to harm the 3 survivors and the shrimp? Or can they still breath with all the substrate dust stirred up?

The tank temp this week went from 69 to 72 and back down to 69 today.

Is that too cold for them? Or can I assume that they died for other reasons? (The pH or the 20ppm NitrAtes?)

I'm so depressed. The tank looked so beautiful this week, I had done the water changes, and cleaned the plants, and everybody looked very healthy. I suppose though if the pH climbed to high, it might have been too much for a few of them. :/ I just wonder when the other three will go. I've had losses every week since I bought fish a month ago, it's really awful - I'm not used to fish dying on me.

I don't think I'll be buying anymore, not until I've had these for a few months maybe I can trust the tank and the setup. I just can't believe how many I've lost... I thought they were hardy.

Wait... well the test this morning showed only 10ppm NitrAtes... and that was before the water change. Looks like the plants finally started doing something. But 10ppm is good, so it must not have been the NitrAte level. The only thing not right I guess would have been the pH too high.

Poor fishies.

In the future, is there anything safe to add if the pH climbs too high that can bring it down safely? I tend not to add things (except I've tried driftwood/peat) in the past, but with the water here already being a high pH, the water change factor doesn't usually make a difference. (Unless they did somethign with the water here, and now it's over?)

Well I don't know, seem to be more talking to myself, but if I could just get the three left to live, keep the pH stable and the temp stable, maybe my fish will start to do better. I just have none of these problems at my tank at home (and that's fully stocked, with no plants either.)

I'm so tired of being sleepy because of these fish I keep losing and I haven't gotten a good night's rest in almost a week because I keep waking up of nightmares fishing out more bodies (which scare me because it keeps turning into reality.) Maybe that's why I'm rambling today.

Anyway, at least the ones left should feel more comfortable now...

Oh hi HN. Thanks... I might have all the kinks worked out this week. No more timer problems, temperature issues, filter problems, get the pH stable, and the plants are finally winning the NitrAte battle and the levels have come down to half of what they are...

the poor little guys but maybe the new ones might have a chance. :/

Thanks for the comment.

Hmmm. Since yesterday one of them has been laying resting in my plants. I thought it was dead, since it hardly looked like it was breathing. It wasn't though. Today I darkened the tank in the office and kept volume to pretty much a minimum.

I just checked on them. I lost another one. And it isn't even the one struggling to breathe in the plants (although he's out now, maybe doing a little better?) The dead one is one that looked just fine this morning, 6 hours ago.

Throughout the day I have been monitoring the pH, and it's been 7.2 to 7.4. The temp is at 70. Everything looks better than it has before, and I lost another, am about to lose one more, and then I will have ONE possibly. Friday I had SIX.

One thing I'm noticing is that it looks like there's bubbles on the plants, plus the water level is low by about 4 inches, so there's surface agitation. In this situation, could there be such a thing as too much oxygen? Wouldn't it just gas off? Or is the plants having bubbles something they do when it's dark?

Is it at all possible that the plants are responsible for their death somehow? I hate to say it but it brings the death count up to 11 plus 4 plus 2. This has been dreadful!

I don't think I'll be buying anymore of them.

Thanks for the replies... There's no ammonia, not a trace. Anyway, you probably missed the thread but this is the tank I fishlessly cycled for three months. It was cycled for 4ppm ammonia. I know that 4-6 small fish aren't producing that, not even when one or two die. Not to mention, it's not like they've really decomposed, especially not when they die right in front of me.

I already did the 50% water change yesterday... I really don't think for one fish dying to be scooped out immediately that I need to do a second 50%, nor could I really afford the time not getting work done to do changes like that every day. Anyway, I know that the ammonia is 0, the pH is now between 7.2 and 7.4, the NitrAtes went from 15 down to less than 10.

I do know that the light timer has been iffy - I think when it "pops" off it's enough to jar the switch just slightly out of position. It's why I covered the tank today and they "slept." (Well... one slept really good. )

I hope there isn't something going on with the plants... I have them in there to do the opposite - supply oxygen to the fish in the event that the power fails and the filters turns off and I can't get to them. (Like in an ice storm.) I do think something has happened... the plants look the same but I see more bubbles, but more than that this week I saw the NitrAtes go from 20 to less than 10 in a few days, which is the most I've ever seen it change. Also some of the pretty fluffy algae I have, like on the rocks, for the snails and shrimp, some of it has turned pink and it looks to be falling off. (Which I'm trying to vaccum up when I do the twice weekly water changes.)

I just checked the webcam. It looks dark (not trusting the timer, I'm letting natural daylight through the window and then darken normally) so I can't tell for sure, but I may have lost another lying against the sponge filter. I guess I know tomorrow.


On another note... the 4 shrimp have been busy, at least, I think it's them, or the snails? It looks like for the first time ever I have eggs. Wonder how it's possible the snails and shrimp are totally unaffected, but I lose a fish a day?

Oh I forgot the lights. They are melon swords, water sprites and one other one I can't remember, they all fall in the Moderate category, and I have 48 watts in the light, with 2 different spectrum bulbs, which I think is averaging out to 2.4 watts per gallon. I just wonder what the effect on the plants/ Co2/ Oxygen/ pH - and even the algae which as I mentioned in some areas is turning a purple and falling off - when the light's been on for sometimes 36 hours straight.