Whats happening!?

[OhNo123]

So my friend bought me two GBRs (pair) from the LFS yesterday. (:D). I acclimated them and they looked like they were okay until now. I just looked into the tank, and the female GBR is barely swimming and is always near the bottom of the tank, gliding along the gravel and laying inside a pot. Shes using her gills alot, like shes breathing or something. I also noticed that her poop was transparent, whats that suppose to mean? I didn't feed them anything yet.

tank parameters are good, except pH is around 7.4 - would that be too high for them? and temp. is around 83-84; I just unplugged the heater, it likes to go a few degrees more than I set it at.

Please help, and thanks :D

[Pittbull]

what size tank and what other fish are in the tank plus she may be stressed out usually fast gill respiration means stress the white feces really could be what she was being fed before you mention ph how long has this tank been set up and what are your other perimeters like via nitrate, nitrite, ammonia and hardness

[OhNo123]

They are currently in a 10g alone, no other fish; only trumpet snails.
Her feces isn't white, its transparent/clear. you can barely tell its there.

The tank has been set up for over 2.5 months.

pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrate - somewhere between 0-25 ppm.
Hardness - I don't know?

I just checked on her again, she swam up to the surface and then slowly swam down and now shes still on a rock. The male is in their cave.

[Pittbull]

first i would bring down that temp around 74* its possible she may be stressed due to the change and the ph is a tad bit to high for rams do you know if they where wild caught or local bred also they dont like hard water

[OhNo123]

Hmm alright.. 74 degrees.. can a heater also act as a cooler? My usually room temperature is around 78 degrees. I also plan on getting some peat moss when I get a chance to lower the pH.

I think they were captive bred, but I'm not sure. A Majority of their fish are captive bred.

The male is fine though..

[Pittbull]

cool well the funny thing here in my area is that the local breeds of GBR are more fragile than the wild caught versions plus our water is very hard and a high PH around 8.0 is normal perfect for africans but sucks for soft water clients more than likely it sounds that you may lose the female but yeah most def lower that ph in slow installments and just leave the heater off til winter arrives and if in winter you keep the house very warm you should be ok just make sure you have an accurate temp monitor to watch that, you dont need the ich problem aye, woods and peat will help to lower the ph

[nguyendetecting]

yes cut off the heater 78 is better than 84 degrees, and no your heater won't cool the tank. But at 78 maybe you'll see in improvement in her. Goodluck, is she eating?

[OhNo123]

I don't know, I have to pick up food for them tomorrow morning when the store opens, my refrigerator broke over the summer so my frozen blood worms were thrown out. I'll be getting more tomorrow. What do you suggest I feed them?

[Pittbull]

i would wait til you see improvement on your female, by this time tomorrow you should be able to feed them i would do some brine on the lite side aye.

[Hooked Newbie]

I'm going to disagree a bit here.... 80 should be the target temp with Apistos. Keep the lights off for a day or so, sounds like stress.

[lucy42083]

I would have to disagree with much of what has been said here. If your rams are wild-caught or farm raised in Asia, then they may be sensitive to higher pH, but a 7.4 pH on its own with proper acclimation should not cause a big problem. I have a tank bred ram in my tank and have for awhile (there are pics in a thread I had recently) and she is super healthy, great colors, very active - and my pH is 7.8-8.0. I also have very hard water. Also, rams actually prefer higher temperatures - 74 degrees is too cold for a ram - in fact they prefer the temps around 80. 78 is perfectly fine for them, not too hot by any means. I do not think you should try to lower the pH or lower the temperature.

[lucy42083]

Oh and Hooked, I think you meant rams when you said apistos in your post. ;)

[OhNo123]

Well, the female has passed away overnight... Oh well, I'll learn from my mistakes. I believe she had an internal parasite. After I netted out her body, the bottom of her body was red and clear feces was still hanging from her.

The male seems fine, but he has a few white speckles on his fins and body; just a few. Could this be the start of Ick? He doesn't rub against anything though.

[lucy42083]

That's too bad, it does sound like she had internal parasites. I would watch the male closely - do the spots look like salt grains? Could be ich....if the one fish had parasites, and they were in the same tank at the LFS and at your house, chances are the other fish has parasites as well. Rams can be sensitive fish, and particularly the ones farmed in Asia tend to be weak and have issues. If it is ich, 2 tsp of salt per gallon in the water (dissolve it in water first and add slowly...) and raise the temp. slowly up to 84.

[OhNo123]

But salt will kill my snails...

It does look like salt - sort of, or it can be air bubbles that are being shot out of my filter. The amount has not multiplied since yesterday.

[Star_Rider]

folks.. two species of rams..altispinosa (Bolivian)
and Ramirezi(Blue)

the Bolivian prefers temps around 78-80
the Blue actually is fine with temps 82-86..which is one reason they pair well with Discus.

they may stress(chilled) with lower temps.

and pH is not as important . pH is controlled by kh(carbonate hardness). gh is the more important factor and is a measure of TDS. and may affect osmo-regulation.
that said.. at issue may be the source.
asian bred /raised rams have had problems with hormones and results in short life span . or illness.

also at higher temps.. add airstones...there is less dissolved 2 in warmer water.

[OhNo123]

Well the male is actually swimming now, and is acting normal, though there is still two distinctive white specks on his body. I think the specks on his tail are just air bubbles, they look different. The temperature is at 84 right now, so I think hes satisfied. I'm going to get some peat moss soon.

[jpappy789]

folks.. two species of rams..altispinosa (Bolivian)
and Ramirezi(Blue)

the Bolivian prefers temps around 78-80
the Blue actually is fine with temps 82-86..which is one reason they pair well with Discus.

they may stress(chilled) with lower temps.

and pH is not as important . pH is controlled by kh(carbonate hardness). gh is the more important factor and is a measure of TDS. and may affect osmo-regulation.
that said.. at issue may be the source.
asian bred /raised rams have had problems with hormones and results in short life span . or illness.

also at higher temps.. add airstones...there is less dissolved 2 in warmer water.

:iagree:

And even then water chemistry should not bother rams like so many people believe. I keep mine in hard water with a pH or 8 or so without any problems...problems usually stem from how they were raised, transported, acclimated, etc.

[OhNo123]

So now it looks like the ich has multiplied, its a little more, but not everywhere. How do I treat him without killing my snails? The temperature has been 84 for a few hours now but i don't see any change.

By the way, I find this a little odd: I have two tanks right beside each other, one has a heater running and one doesn't, but they are both 84 degrees...

[Pittbull]

cool jpappy your my hero..