Help me please :( Angel not eating, water is perfect

[bigmarc]

Help, I dont know what else to do. About a week and a half ago I noticed one of my angelfish was not eating. At the time he was in a 30 gallon tank with another angel, 4 tiny tetras, 2 platys, and 2 small silver dollar fish. I have had the 2 angelfish for like 6 months, I got them as babies. I actually bought 4 baby angelfish at that time but 2 died right away of angelfish disease (they had clamped fins) and the 2 I have survived. Anyway the 2 I have, have never had anything wrong until about a week and a half ago I noticed he stopped eating. I let it go for a few days but then I noticed he was started gasping, or opening and closing his mouth much faster than usual. I went to my pet store and I told them whats happenning. They measured my water and told me that he has good news and bad news. The good news was that my water levels measured perfect. My PH is 7.5 and I keep the tank at 80-82 degrees. He said I am a great fish owner and I should continue to do what I am doing. The bad news was that my water levels are not whats causing the fish to be ill. This wouldve been easy to fix. The store had me move the fish to another tank (10 gallon) which I already had set up with water parameters same as the 30 gallon. He is still in there. for the first 4 days I was adding cure all and melafix to his tank, hoping that it would help. He seemed to be declining in strength. He was still gasping and not eating and at this point I noticed he was having long clear stringy feces coming from him. Also sometimes he was swimming at a very slight angle, sometimes with his head down. 3 days ago I read a million websites and his symptoms seemed to most closely match hexamita. So I found the cure to hexamita is a medicine called Metronidazole. The same day, I went to the pet store and bought it. They had me do a 50% water change to get rid of the cure all. Then I added it to the tank according to the instructions. Then waited 2 days (which brings me to today) and added it again, as it says to do in the directions (It wants you to add it every other day). Every day I put a few flakes of food and a few bloodworms in for him and sometimes he will go up top and I think hes going to eat but then he just goes back down and sits around. I am not sure if this is working or not. If it is working to kill the bacteria, I am afraid he might die from not eating. Is there anything else I can dohttp://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/images/smilies/huh.gif? Is there anything you think it might behttp://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/images/smilies/huh.gif? Has anyone else had this problemhttp://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/images/smilies/huh.gif? I appreciate any help you can give.

[dilhcic]

I dont know much about angelfish, what are your ammoina, nitrite and nitrate readings?

[Pittbull]

first lets diagnose what you are seeing, you said the fish will not eat and has rapid gill function, you also stated you had your water tested but only mentioned one test ph what was your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and hardness read at, with rapid gill function usually means that a fish is stressed but from what, is there enough oxygen, is there ammonia to cause the fish to be stressed, do you do weekly water changes, is there a bully in your tank, if no, then you have to look at parasites and disease, rapid gill function could mean gill flukes clear feces could mean internal parasites, the main issue is that you dont want to make a tank full of medicine soup by adding chemical alot of times one just sits back and contemplate the next move, do a water change and add some aquarium salt at a teaspoon per each 5gal of water.. let me know..

[DavidZ]

Try a large water change, provide water parameters, mix some liquid garlic with your food, I would also try liquid garlic with some internal parasite food from Jungle Labs, should be able to get it from your LFS.
First get a liquid kit and make sure your water parameters are ok, I wouldn't trust most of the workers at the LFS, unless you really know them.

[Star_Rider]

I agree, first check your water with your own test kit(not test strips)

then look to possible issues.
with angels you may see hexamita but you may also be dealing with camillanus or capillaria.
hex can be treated with metronidazole
you may need fendendazole, flubendazole or levamisole hcl for the others as they do not respond to metro.

[tabendall]

I am going through the same thing right now. I have a pearlscale angel that I've had for about 9 months. He stopped eating about a week ago and showed the same behaviour you are describing: looking at food but not eating & rapid breathing. I took him into my LFS on Wednesday and had the vet there examine him. They also tested my water and said that all parameters are perfect. The vet said that he looks great - his scales and fins are perfect so no one is picking on him and his color is good. They noted that the only outward signs were that he was thin and breathing hard. Because of this, they said that most likely he has an internal bacterial infection.

I have him quarantined and am currently medicating him with an antibiotic that they sold me. Sorry that I don't know the name of the med - they must sell it in bulk by the amount needed since it was in a generic plastic bag that they hand labelled $14! They are having me do a 25% water change with a new antibiotic dose daily. This is what they told me - don't expect improvements right away ... it could take 7-10 days. Give him one bloodworm or flake and if he doesn't eat it, remove it so it doesn't pollute the tank since no good bacteria is working on the ammonia. If he will eat that, give him more until he won't eat anymore. If there is no improvement (eating) within 7 days, most likely the fish has something more serious like TB and should be euthanized but to call and touch base with them or bring him in for another look. If we do decide to put him down, they will examine his body to determine what the real problem was.

This is day 2 of treatment and no improvement yet. Needless to say, I'm holding my breath! Good luck!

[bigmarc]

Oh man, sorry tebendall. Ok pittbull, I do feel like I am making medicine soup out of his tank. And I also worry that I am not giving him enough time with each medicine. His ammonia and nitrates and nitrites are fine. I guess it must be parasites. I am going to do a 50% water change and run the carbon in the filter. Then maybe I need to give him something for internal parasites. Any recommendations? What temp should my water be at? Also, I tried adding garlic to his food but he still wont eat.

[bigmarc]

Is there any way to treat internal Parasites without giving him something he has to eat because he wont eat. If not hes doomed.

[Pittbull]

wow your dedicated bigmarc hats off to you, well if you really want to save this fish, my advice would be too find a anibiotic or internal parasite med that has to be fed with a bulb syringe to make sure that the fish recieves the meds it needs and is target delivered to the intestines, this means holding the fish in hand and syringe the needed meds, but be forewarned that this is going to be expensive and plus you have to find a vet that specializes in this type of med treatment, or be able to obtain it and do it yourself, sometimes it is best to end the suffering of a species that has no chance in recovery, its what we can do for this species is what matters, as for me i do not like to end the life of any species but if i have to so be it, best wishes my friend..

The Irish Pittbull

[bigmarc]

He's starting to die. He's starting to lie on his side.
He's laying on his side I think hes going to die and I am regretting even getting into this **** fish hobby. I wonder, is this part of the hobby? Do all of you go through this? This beautiful angelfish isnt even a year old and hes just dying and theres nobody who seems to know anything. Even my LPS who I thought knew everything when I got the tank seems to just shrug their shoulders. Usually when you have a sick pet, you bring it to the vet and find out whats wrong. When you have a sick fish you just take guesses and dump different chemicals into his tank hoping you have the right cure? Seems like we dont know much at all about fish. Kind of sad in this day and age.

[Winterose]

fishes die its part of life, what are your water parameters? does he have any odd spots on him?

[jpappy789]

Are your ammonia and nitrite EXACTLY at zero?

I would go with what Davis and star_rider have said.

[lilim10]

Hex is commonly found in angels and discus, its supposed to be pretty hard to treat, even with metro. You can medicate your angel's food with metro, but I'm not sure if it'll do anything when he's not eating. Dose metro in the tank water and in his food. You can read more about hex here http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/hexamitiasis2.shtml
I've never had it, but I've heard many tales of discus owners coming home to find their tanks infested with hex and even with treatment, unable to save their beloved fish.

Good luck to you and your angel.

[bigmarc]

I went to a very knowledgeable LFS this old guy who has been doing this his whole life. He said it is internal parasites and if hes not eating, theres nothing you can do. He said the only meds for internal parasites must be fed to them and if the fish isnt eating it will probably die. I asked him about giving him the meds with a dropper in my hand and he said that wont work, and you will wipe the protective slime off of him and he will get so stressed out. He basically told me to let nature take its course. The angel looks fine now, hes so beautiful. I just tried to feed him but he wouldnt eat. I guess its just a matter of time :(

[bigmarc]

thanks again everyone for all your help. I really appreciate your time and effort. Thank you all for trying but unless theres a treatment which I can just put in the water I will just let him be

[Pittbull]

ok bigmarc buddy this is the thing and i am not calling your LFS person out hes an old timer and like all old timers there going to say let it take its course and usually right so, i am not a fish vet but i am a sergeant in law enforcement my dept is fish you can call me a game warden or fish police but i have been working in the fish dept local fish and fisheries enforcement and pet shop regulation for 12 years, i have been a hobbyist for 21+ years, if it is internal parasites you can hold a fish in hand while administer meds with a syringe if you squeeze hard than yeah your going to hurt the fish and the protective slime coat, sometimes you have to cause stress to actually help a fish, the drugs you need will more than likely be prescribed from a vet, if you have that service available to you in your area, if not than likely there will be nothing you can do about this and allow nature to take its course, yes it sucks but this is the hobby most pet shops and distributors look at fish as a profit and rarely taken into account that fish are living creatures, so yeah its tough and i have lost fish before that made me sad as well, like my frontosa they can live for 25 years thats a long time for a cichlid and would be sad to see them die such a short life, thats why i made the comment of med soup most hobbyist dump chemicals and meds in there tank when the slightest occurence happens and often so more harm is done when this occurs, those med flakes are not going to work if the fish will not eat than your at a loss on that issue, hence the forced fed route with the meds you can syringe, there are meds that say they will cure parasite by just adding to the water sometimes these work most of time they wont, but when you start to talk about high medical prices when it comes to a vet service with a fish most hobbyist will say have a good life fishy and buy another, i know crazy aye, but this is what happens aye, good luck my friend..

[Preeths]

Some pointers to use Metro:

1. Tank temp needs to be around 30-32 degree centigrade for metro to work effectively. It does not work at lower temperatures

2. If you are using metrogyl in the liquid form you can dose the tank directly

3. If you are using metrogyl in the form of tablets, then understand that it does not dissolve easily in water. Use a cup of warm (not hot) water. Powder the tablets mix it in warm water and pour the warm water from the cup into the tank. One cup of warm water will not affect your tank's water temperature.

4. When you are using Metro, do not feed fish for the first 3 days of medication.

5. Use an air pump for heavily areating the tank, do not depend on surface agitation form power head as the current will weaken an already stressed fish.

6. Start feeding from the 4th day a little at a time.

7. WC 50% daily while replacing lost medication.

8. Concentration should be about 6-8 ppm in water.

Start treating when your fish do not eat for more than 2-3 days. If you wait any longer before treatment, then there are chances that your fish won’t make it.

This is from my experience using metro

Metro is used for protozoal infections, Fenbendazole is used for worms and parasites.

[Draal5]

bigmarc

lets stop with all this medicine with everything you are using it can do more harm than good.

use a lot of carbon get clean his water. then add some salt to the clean water.almost all parasites and bacteria that live in fresh water can not tolerate even a little salt. In all my years in this hobby I have never had any thing in my tanks that could not be cured with clean water and salt.



now get some live brine shrimp and some garlic treated fish food and see if we can get him to eat.

you said it your self that if he doesn't eat he's going to die.

Fish have incredible healing power if you can get him to eat you will see him get better very quickly.

[Star_Rider]

I agree with Draal remove existing meds and rethink treatment.

do a large water change.

I do not think the salt will be effective on internal parasites.. they have the fishes body as a buffer from changes in salinity of the water by adding salt.
while salt is an effective treatment and may indeed wipe out the off spring of the parasite. the adult is protected by the host when it is in the digestive tract of the fish.
two meds effective for the treatment of nematode parasitic round worms like caplillaria is also effective on camallanus .
both of these parasites are known parasites affecting angel fish.

these two meds are Fenbendazole which must be used in the food to be effective and Levamisole hcl which can be administered as a bath.