Nashville is out of gas

[tennesseemom]

Nashville has been out of gas since last weekend. At first they blamed the hurricane and a pipe that brings gas into Nashville. Now they are blaming drivers because we are putting gas in our tanks.

The problem is that you can't find a station with gas. If you aren't in the right place at the right time, you won't get any. I passed 12 stations going into downtown this morning, and all were out. I saw an exxon on the way home that just got a delivery and there were so many cars they had police directing traffic.

From Ch. 5 "There have been a few reports of small scuffles and fights breaking out. Many stations have security guards and employees controlling traffic to minimize the problems. "

From ch2:
A few lucky drivers followed a tanker truck carrying fuel into the Shell station.
"I saw them pull in, [I] pulled in right behind them," said Marty Nichols. "[I came] right in here and they turned them on. In numerical order and I was [at] pump five."
The BP station across the street also had gas at one point Friday morning.
Both stations have since dried up.

This has caused grocery prices to rise. Kroger wanted $6.00 for bag of apples! And this has only been a week.

Lines are long and tempers are short. And we still don't have gas.

We are in a real bad spot if just a little hiccup *somewhere* causes this. Imagine if this was nationally.

Some news links:

http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=9040483

http://www.wsmv.com/news/17511688/detail.html

http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=9041967

[judgemax]

crazy.

[J double R]

that's ridiculous. where are the tanker trucks?


but it show's we're not ready for alternative methods of energy, since the general population still hits the panic button when gasoline runs low/runs out.

[Eupterus]

I usually limit driving to save money/gas. I bike places weather permitting. Problem is my fish still don't live with me due to the ongoing financial problems/ not having enough money to buy my own home, so I drive over to feed and check on them and sometimes give them water changes. I am aware the driving back and forth for my boarded fish is probably wasting energy. I wish there were easier solutions. I guess if we run out of gas here, the fish have to die if it comes before me getting a home.

I can't wait for my own home so I can move away from heating oil into geothermal or whatever they call it and go with solar panels.

[IceH2O]

We're having the same problem in NC/SC. I hear its all of the SE as the refineries in TX are our biggest suppliers. Gas went from 3.59 to 4.19 overnight and we had some places charging close to 5.00 before they started getting in trouble.

Luckily I drive a company van so the money doesn't come out of my pocket and I go to so many different places I can usually find gas but here in town a ferw stations have been without gas for a week and the ones that were carrying are now empty. You usually have to find a small out of the way station like the one up the road from me to get gas.

[DiezelEinstein]

Sux that gas stations wont get in trouble for overcharging...taking adavantage of people during times of crisis.......Im in AZ and we had a pipeline burst and SAME THING people following tankers and trucks paying 5$-8$ gallon....then the people got all in a riot and they dropped the gas prices and the pumps magically re-opened evrywhere....Its the 70's again whoo hoo...
anyway $4.19 was the normal gas price here...now its $3.65 since the storm...figure that??

[WaywardSon]

Wow ...

[krazy4country]

that must really suck...................

[Mgamer20o0]

keep the tank full and extra at home..... i never let my car get past 1/2 empty.

[brentling]

that's ridiculous. where are the tanker trucks?


but it show's we're not ready for alternative methods of energy, since the general population still hits the panic button when gasoline runs low/runs out.


It shows how much we NEED alternative energy, actually.

[Hurley]

Makes me real glad I am able to bike just about everywhere I need to go. Hopefully things will get better soon.

[Mustang Boy]

They tried that jacking the prices up here in florida but the only thing was Charlie Christ issues states of emergency whenever a hurricane comes anywhere near florida which means that gas stations cant raise their prices above a certain amount over the price they purchase it for so right after the hurricane people went crazy thinking that we got our oil from TX and were buying all the gas so stations started raising their prices(one Flying J raised their prices 3 times in the matter of an hour to almost $4.50 a gallon) but since Christ had issued the state of emergency they set up a hotline for people wanting to report price gouging and there were thousands that were caught and when they are caught they are FINED huge amounts of money much much more than they had made during their illegal price raises :devil:

[DominionDesign]

The Gate station down the street here in Jacksonville went up to $4.15 last Sunday. Crist made announcements about price gouging not being tolerated and by Monday afternoon they were down to $3.85. On the flip side, they still had fuel while everyone who had not raised prices were sold out.

[J double R]

It shows how much we NEED alternative energy, actually.


i didnt say we dont NEED it, i said we're not READY for it. :idea:

[oscarluvr]

it is nothing more than greed, the tanks were full the refineries are full, supply is not a question, ike did not change any of that, the supply of crude is out of sight. the problem now is where to store the crude now. the supply of gas is high, storage tanks are in short supply. even with laws against gouging it still happens and no one cares.

[Notophthalmus]

We have fuel in Clarksville. Deliveries here resumed on Tuesday, I think. You might check some of the other surrounding towns too. Not sure why Nashville's having so much trouble; it's really got my girlfriend on edge (she lives in Hillsboro) watching people wait in line for gas.

[FISHSHROD]

FRIGGIN GAS :wall:

[Notophthalmus]

I spoke too soon. Normal delivery shedule has resumed, but each delivery is only 30-40% of normal. A lot of the stations are cutting off their unleaded tanks while still half-full and selling only high-test. *******s.

[LesbianChap]

Odd...I know here overnight the prices rose like 40 cents a gallon (3.50s to near 4), and it's back down to the 3.60s...One thing I noticed at the Walmart where I fuel up is they are only selling regular (87 octane) gas, and every tank/pump they got (even what was normally the high octane ones) are all regular at the moment...works for me :)

[tennesseemom]

It's almost 2 weeks and the situation hasn't changed. And I just read that Atlanta is starting to have the same problem. Now they are blaming the pipeline that carries gas, saying there isn't as much flowing through as before the hurricanes. Wait! That was their first excuse, then they blamed drivers for buying gas, now they are blaming the pipe again. And they are saying that this could last until at least this weekend. My husband works at a big hospital, and he said that people can't get into work because they can't find gas. Can't even carpool if you can't find gas, and this is including Dr's who can't get into work.

[J double R]

there are alternative methods of transportation...

bus
bicycle
(omg did i really just say it) Walking

just to name a few.

[tennesseemom]

Alternative methods of transport only work where they can work, and if you have it.

[J double R]

last i heard, we were all born with feet. :)

unless you live hundreds of miles from civilization, there is always a way to transport yourself, even if it means a little bit of physical exertion.

[Sploke]

but it show's we're not ready for alternative methods of energy, since the general population still hits the panic button when gasoline runs low/runs out.

i didnt say we dont NEED it, i said we're not READY for it. :idea:


I don't see the correlation between people panicking over gas shortages and not being ready for alternative energy sources?

[J double R]

I don't see the correlation between people panicking over gas shortages and not being ready for alternative energy sources?


because if we were ready for it, people, instead of panicking, would turn to those sources.

[Sploke]

The problem is that many (most) of the alternative sources are still not widely available. Walking/biking aside, what are your options if you run out of gasoline? There aren't any fully electric vehicles available that are affordable to the general population yet. There are hybrids, but with the current market, even the best out there are only averaging 40-50mpg - still need gas to run them, so SOL if there's no gas. E80 is an option in the midwest, hydrogen is practically nonexistant from an infrastructure point of view.

[J double R]

and that emphasizes my other point. i don't understand why people give up and sit down when there is no way to drive, when manual transportation is always available, via self motivation.

i dont know about anyone else, but i remember not being old enough to drive, and that never stopped me from hopping on my bike and getting where i needed to go, or putting on my tennis shoes and walking.

[Sploke]

I have a 35 mile commute to work, each way. Its not practical for me to walk or ride my bike to work and back every day, especially now as its getting colder, staying dark later in the morning and getting dark earlier. Could it do it, sure, but its not a long term solution.

[J double R]

we're not talking practicality. we're talking basic need of transportation and what to do when driving is not an option.

[petluvr]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Sploke]

Band-aid fixes are one thing, but the long-term solutions are what is needed to solve the problem of oil dependency. Telling everyone to sell their cars and walk to work is not practical for a large percentage of the population. I don't see how throwing out impractical solutions is helpful? What good is a "solution" if it doesn't fix the problem?

[The Zigman]

Wow!
How much are they charging for it when it is available?

[tennesseemom]

It's such a huge complicated issue, and it can't be fixed by insulting people and telling them they aren't motivated because they aren't walking somewhere.

At the very basic level, we need sidewalks! People aren't safe walking or biking on a street. Sure, they build sidewalks around the business areas, but not from where people live to get to those areas. I'm not walking in the street with my 2 small kids, and neither are most people. Build a sidewalk, people start walking.. jogging.. biking.. and getting to know their neighbors.

[Sploke]

Its actually illegal to bicycle on the sidewalk, they're meant for pedestrians only. Some places have bike lanes though (basically just a really wide shoulder) which is really nice to get some space between yourself and passing traffic.

[johnhoover]

To put another thought on what causes a shortage.

I'm south of Tennesseemom in Murfreesboro, ONE of our Kroger Supermarkets has 8 fuel nozzles. They alone go through 6 tankers a week. So if they miss one tanker, they're empty. Also considering that a not quite full tanker is roughly 5000 gal. we're talking quite a lot of fuel a week at this site. Now start counting the number of stations you pass, roughly one every 3/4 mile if you're in town. Any interruption in delivery makes a huge impact.

Sploke has raised valid concerns. Biking only works if you're close and can do so safely. When I worked in Nashville I had a 40 mile commute one way, there was a regional bus route, but would require meeting the bus at 5:45, arriving downtown at 8:15, then leaving downtown at 4:20, arriving back at my car at 6:00. This type of schedule doesn't leave much time for work or anything else. Also note that unless you worked within 4-5 blocks of the downtown exchange, it's not even thinkable.

I'm personally for more drilling, compressed natural gas, electric, and any other ways to drive transportation that are available. We shouldn't arbitrarily create a shortage, we should allow all to compete openly without interference. The most economic will prevail in the areas where it makes economic sense. I would guess electric inside cities and leaning to CNG/Gasoline/Diesel as the needed distance to cover increases.

Ok, It wasn't my intent to rant, but it seems to have turned out that way.
John.

[Sploke]

The more I learn about it, the more CNG seems like the logical pathway to bridge the gap until electric vehicles are a lot more widespread.

[DominionDesign]

To put another thought on what causes a shortage.

I'm south of Tennesseemom in Murfreesboro, ONE of our Kroger Supermarkets has 8 fuel nozzles. They alone go through 6 tankers a week. So if they miss one tanker, they're empty. Also considering that a not quite full tanker is roughly 5000 gal. we're talking quite a lot of fuel a week at this site. Now start counting the number of stations you pass, roughly one every 3/4 mile if you're in town. Any interruption in delivery makes a huge impact.

Sploke has raised valid concerns. Biking only works if you're close and can do so safely. When I worked in Nashville I had a 40 mile commute one way, there was a regional bus route, but would require meeting the bus at 5:45, arriving downtown at 8:15, then leaving downtown at 4:20, arriving back at my car at 6:00. This type of schedule doesn't leave much time for work or anything else. Also note that unless you worked within 4-5 blocks of the downtown exchange, it's not even thinkable.

I'm personally for more drilling, compressed natural gas, electric, and any other ways to drive transportation that are available. We shouldn't arbitrarily create a shortage, we should allow all to compete openly without interference. The most economic will prevail in the areas where it makes economic sense. I would guess electric inside cities and leaning to CNG/Gasoline/Diesel as the needed distance to cover increases.

Ok, It wasn't my intent to rant, but it seems to have turned out that way.
John.

I'm self employeed, landscape design and installation. Jacksonville is the largest "city" in the world as far as landmass is concerned (the city incorporated the county so technically the city extends to the county borders, its the only place I know of where you can pass a sign coming south on I-95 that says Jacksonville 20 miles and then 3 miles later pass a sign that says welcome to Jacksonville). I drive an average of 40-50 miles per day in order to do my job, 100 mile days are not uncommon. I am spending about $150-200 weekly for gas. Do you know how many tanks/fish that will buy? If I could find a way to walk/bike, pull a trailer and still service my clients I would do it in a heartbeat. Lately I've thought the Amish may not be so far off with the horse and buggy idea. As this is not feasible I continue to burn much money in fuel. I agree with John, we need to drill here to address the more immediate issues and let the free market address altenative sources, with government help but not interference, untill such time as there is a viable alternative and the infrastructure can be established. The free market works if you, i.e. the government, let it. I talked to my sister in Nashville last night and she said people were waiting for hours in line only to get to the pumps and find out the gas was gone, thats enough to test the patience of a saint. OK, it's off my chest now.

[J double R]

It's such a huge complicated issue, and it can't be fixed by insulting people and telling them they aren't motivated because they aren't walking somewhere.

At the very basic level, we need sidewalks! People aren't safe walking or biking on a street. Sure, they build sidewalks around the business areas, but not from where people live to get to those areas. I'm not walking in the street with my 2 small kids, and neither are most people. Build a sidewalk, people start walking.. jogging.. biking.. and getting to know their neighbors.


i don't remember directly insulting anyone. nice try, though. :)

[Notophthalmus]

The trouble with the free market is it only works if EVERYONE follows the rules. There are other troubles, too, but that's a big one.

There's a long history of oil companies buying up alternative energy patents and businesses and sitting on them, and even a lot of rumors of them forcibly shutting down inventors who weren't selling their patents. I'm not given to conspiracy theories, but I don't doubt for a second that plenty of people in such a huge, aggressive, and well-connected industry wouldn't think twice about using shady means to eliminate potential threats.

The gov't had an enormous hand in establishing the infrastructure that made petroleum fuels a dominant force in our society; why wouldn't it (we) do the same thing for fuel sources that carry a bit less baggage? Surely you don't think it would be unfair to the oil companies, do you? And it would benefit all of us. That, to my mind, is exactly the sort of thing our gov't should be doing.

[DominionDesign]

The trouble with the free market is it only works if EVERYONE follows the rules. There are other troubles, too, but that's a big one.

There's a long history of oil companies buying up alternative energy patents and businesses and sitting on them, and even a lot of rumors of them forcibly shutting down inventors who weren't selling their patents. I'm not given to conspiracy theories, but I don't doubt for a second that plenty of people in such a huge, aggressive, and well-connected industry wouldn't think twice about using shady means to eliminate potential threats.

The gov't had an enormous hand in establishing the infrastructure that made petroleum fuels a dominant force in our society; why wouldn't it (we) do the same thing for fuel sources that carry a bit less baggage? Surely you don't think it would be unfair to the oil companies, do you? And it would benefit all of us. That, to my mind, is exactly the sort of thing our gov't should be doing.

The governments mandate is to protect the country and our liberties and through the judicial branch try to ensure that the rules are being followed. I agree that there are a lot of underhanded tactics used by the oil companies and other large industries to snuff out competitors. This is so entrenched in our govt through lobbyists, etc. that I don't see it ever changing. I agree that the govt should assist alternative companies through grants, tax breaks and the like (help) but should not arbitrarily legislate rules and or provisions that stand in the way of progress in order to benefit big business (interference). I think we are saying the same thing, just expressed differently.

[Madcrawdad]

Nashville has been out of gas since last weekend. At first they blamed the hurricane and a pipe that brings gas into Nashville. Now they are blaming drivers because we are putting gas in our tanks.

The problem is that you can't find a station with gas. If you aren't in the right place at the right time, you won't get any. I passed 12 stations going into downtown this morning, and all were out. I saw an exxon on the way home that just got a delivery and there were so many cars they had police directing traffic.

From Ch. 5 "There have been a few reports of small scuffles and fights breaking out. Many stations have security guards and employees controlling traffic to minimize the problems. "

From ch2:
A few lucky drivers followed a tanker truck carrying fuel into the Shell station.
"I saw them pull in, [I] pulled in right behind them," said Marty Nichols. "[I came] right in here and they turned them on. In numerical order and I was [at] pump five."
The BP station across the street also had gas at one point Friday morning.
Both stations have since dried up.

This has caused grocery prices to rise. Kroger wanted $6.00 for bag of apples! And this has only been a week.

Lines are long and tempers are short. And we still don't have gas.

We are in a real bad spot if just a little hiccup *somewhere* causes this. Imagine if this was nationally.

Some news links:

http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=9040483

http://www.wsmv.com/news/17511688/detail.html

http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=9041967

Apparently it was all the fault of a nervous public...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GASOLINE_FEAR_FACTOR?SITE=MAHYC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[IceH2O]

Apparently it was all the fault of a nervous public...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GASOLINE_FEAR_FACTOR?SITE=MAHYC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Theres no doubt that is part of it, people don't need to top off when they hit 3/4s of a tank. But the truth of the matter is we aren't getting the normal supply. They are just now saying they have the pipeline running at close to 100% and that we're still looking at about 2 weeks before everything gets back to normal. Around here there is 1 station out of 10 on average that has gas. People in CLT have waited overnight in line to get gas because they heard a tanker would be at that store in the AM, lots of people are waiting 2 hours and if you are smart you stay out of the right lane of traffic.. The station at my house limits you to 20 dollars worth of gas ( 5 gallons ) and still sells out within a day because he is only getting 20% of his normal weekly delivery. When they start getting full deliveries at all the stations then the panic will subside and prices will drop back down.

[bettalover]

Tons of gas in Texas :P Move down here

[tennesseemom]

We still aren't back to normal. About 90% of the stations have gas, but only the lowest grade, which is fine but there are still stations that don't have any gas at all. Interestingly, the price a gallon has dropped 10-15c even though we aren't back to normal. I heard somewhere that the stations have gas because the EPA reduced the "clean gas standard" so we could have more gas, which would explain why most stations don't have the higher grade gas. It's just all weird.

[J double R]

We still aren't back to normal. About 90% of the stations have gas, but only the lowest grade, which is fine but there are still stations that don't have any gas at all. Interestingly, the price a gallon has dropped 10-15c even though we aren't back to normal. I heard somewhere that the stations have gas because the EPA reduced the "clean gas standard" so we could have more gas, which would explain why most stations don't have the higher grade gas. It's just all weird.


absolutely not. to change the method of gas refinery, would cause the refineries to change configurations.. which would affect the entire nation. the stations have gas because someone delivered it to them.

[blissskr]

If your refering to the winter/summer blends of gas its a possibility. Although Im pretty sure september 15th is the switch over date anyway.

[J double R]

If your refering to the winter/summer blends of gas its a possibility. Although Im pretty sure september 15th is the switch over date anyway.

winter blend is variable by region. it will happen a lot sooner in your area than it will in mine.

[tennesseemom]

From an Atlanta paper:

"Brantley said the waiver, effective immediately from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, should “help somewhat.” The waiver, good through Oct. 12, allows gas stations in 45 counties in and around the metro region from the Alabama line to the North Georgia mountains to stock gasoline with a higher sulfur content."

That's the same waver Nashville got, onlly I can't find the link online:)

[rainbowcharmer]

I'm in North GA and we're still out of gas. Yesterday the Exxon got a delivery and charged $4.29/gallon for it. I reported them on the US Gov site for price gouging, but I'm sure nothing will be done. Today they are at $4.09 and still have gas.

The BP and Shell are both still out - been out for a few weeks now. Not sure how the Exxon is getting gas but nobody else is? Comes from the same pipeline, right?? It's weird.

And I refuse to buy from Exxon. I hate their business practices and I can't bear to contribute to their already over-bulging pockets.

If I could bike to work, I would. But I'd die doing it. the road I live on is a 50mph with no shoulder, no sidewalks and ditches on either side. I travel about 6 miles on that road before turning onto a road that would be safe to bike on. And at 6:45am when it's still pitch black out, it's definitely a death wish to bike or walk. My original intent when I moved down here was to take advantage of the nicer weather and bike as often as possible. But until I buy a house next year (which will hopefully be in an area that biking won't get me killed), that just isn't an option for me.

So for now I drive the 8 miles to work and back every day and that's it. Any errands that need to be run (groceries, etc) get done on the way home from work since I pass the grocery store on my way home. If I don't get whatever it is during the week, it waits until the following Monday. I do not drive at all on the weekends, and only when absolutely necessary during the week (if I have a doc appt, etc).

I cannot cut down any further than I already have unless I quit work, but somehow I think that won't pan out so well for me... ;)

Hopefully this shortage will be over soon. I have to drive down into Atlanta tomorrow evening for an appointment and again Thursday evening to catch a flight to RI to close on my house (yay).

Hopefully I have enough gas to get that far.

[J double R]

honestly, i smell something fishy. this whole deal just seems too weird. if a pipe didnt work right, it looks to me like it would be easy enough to circumvent with trucks traveling a little farther. too many obvious plain ways to fix it and seemingly none of them done.

its not like that area of the country is like an island. and if the "shortage" was really that bad, why is gas here plentiful and down to nearly less than 3.00 a gallon?

[Hooked Newbie]

honestly, i smell something fishy. this whole deal just seems too weird. if a pipe didnt work right, it looks to me like it would be easy enough to circumvent with trucks traveling a little farther. too many obvious plain ways to fix it and seemingly none of them done.

its not like that area of the country is like an island. and if the "shortage" was really that bad, why is gas here plentiful and down to nearly less than 3.00 a gallon?

Ok, I've been lurking and trying not to rant but now I have to. I'm North of the Atlanta Metro and yes, this area is basically an island when it comes to gas delivery. We basically get all our gas from the Southern Gulf refineries and pipelines. NC has gas, but SC doesn't; Ky has gas, but Tn doesn't... That is because those are basically the demarc points that have the ability to receive from multiple regional distribution points. Down here, we don't have that option.

I haven't bought gas for over a week now. I'm fortunate that I can work from home. Most people don't have that option though and this area is notorious for long commutes so alot of people really do need to get the gas just to get to work everyday. They're are of course idiots filling 5G cans after they fill their car, but that is a very small minority.

As far as the EPA changes, yes they were made. Because of the air quality in Atlanta and Nashville, the EPA required a cleaner grade here. That grade is refined in smaller quantity than the standard. The ask wasn't to change the refinery lineups, but rather to allow us to utilize the gas mix that exists in larger supply. To give you an idea of the "perfect storm" of supply interuption and government blundering we're in right now... this has been 20x worse than when Katrina hit and actually damaged the infrastructure. Perdue asked today that the Strategic reserve be tapped.

Awww.... the South, it's a great place to live but I don't want to have to drive here.

[tennesseemom]

:bowing: to HN for explaining the situation better then I could ever hope to!

[Madcrawdad]

Awww.... the South, it's a great place to live but I don't want to have to drive here.

If you didn't drive in the South, when would you get the chance to use your cool car horns that play 'Dixie'?

[Hooked Newbie]

If you didn't drive in the South, when would you get the chance to use your cool car horns that play 'Dixie'?

They sound even cooler in the garage. ;)

[IceH2O]

You know whats funny? Only mainly from CLT and west is having a gas shortage. Raleigh and Wilmington have no gas shortage,neither does Charleston SC from what I understand. Reason is they have their gas shipped in by ship not pipelines.

Seems to me this could all have been taken care of by trucking in gas from the North and Midwest where they have plenty of gas. What happened to being United States? Seems to me its Divided states.

What happens if terrorists decide to take out the pipeline? The Southeast will come to a grinding halt.Talk about an economic tragedy in the making.

Another possible solution would be to have gas employees walk the line of cars and look at gas gauges. If you have half a tank or more they refuse to sell to you. That would help stop the panic buying and help the stations build up their supply instead of having cars follow tankers into stores and waiting overnight because they heard a tanker was going to make a delivery at that store.