Please help! Been doing things all wrong!

[Bbateman03]

Hello all,
I have two aquariums (a 55 and 20 gallon) that have recently been set up over the past two months. After doing some research and reading your forums I have come to the conclusion that I have been doing things all wrong.
I have been changing the water each week, rinsing all media and accessories off each time I clean the water, adding "bio boost" and "start right" each week, scrubbing the sides of the aquarium each week, wiping the filter out, rinsing the filter cartridges, etc.
I have been spending so much money I almost threw all my fish away and gave up. My fish have been sick (one angel still has ich that won't go away), some have died, the ammonia and pH have been on a crazy roller coaster (I have been using ammonia lock and pH increasers), so I have been very busy to say the least and have had little time to just enjoy my fish.
I am now going to attempt to do things right by removing the fish (should I remove all my fish?) putting them in a temp aquarium and doing "aquarium cycling". I understand to let the ammonia rise, then the nitrites should rise, then drop and the nitrates should rise, but, after 3-6 weeks of letting the cycle happen, do I clean the aquarium well before placing the fish back in?
And also, do I continue to add "bio-boost" (pet store brand bacteria supplement) for maintenance of the tank?
And, how often should I change the water after cycling has happened?
I want to do this right this time, and enjoy my fish in the future.
Thanks so much in advance for you time!

[The Zigman]

You should read this...
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

Most stuff they sell in sotres to jumpstart your cycle just dont work.
You have the idea down you should see the ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates..
Just keep monitoring these parameters, and keep up with the water changes. Dont change any filter media, and dont clean anything.

Try to stay away from PH altering chemicals since most fish will adapt to the PH over time. It is more important to have a stable ph, than a low/high ph. If you get fish locally, check to see if they were bred in the area, if they were, they most likely have become used to water similar to yours.

As far as ich..

the most often used method of getting rid of ich is to slowly turn your water temp up to about 84F
and add salt.

read here:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88601 (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...ad.php?t=88601)

[OldMan47]

It sounds to me like you are now in a fishy cycle. If you can keep up with the water changes involved and stop the extra cleanings, things should settle down within a few weeks. In the meantime, you want to get temperatures up and get that ich problem taken care of so you don't just go from one problem to the next. You will need to deal with the ich but need not use harsh chemicals for that. Take a look here http://aquafacts.net/components/com_mambowiki/index.php/Ich (http://aquafacts.net/components/com_mambowiki/index.php/Ich) for some decent information on what ich is and how to go about treating it.
As Zigman said, most products outside of dechlorinator are really counterproductive when it comes to having a healthy environment for the fish unless things are way far from where they should be in your tank. Please come back to the forums and ask before you add pH adjustments or similar products. Often it is just a way for the LFS to extract money from newcomers.

[DrNo]

Sorry to hear about your problems. Zig's link is indeed an excellent read on the topic. Hang in there... once you get over the growing pains you will find aquarium keeping a very rewarding experience! Remember that you can perform water changes frequently without adversely affecting the biological bacteria bed. These nitrosamonas primarily live in the filter biomedia. This is what you want to avoid over-cleaning! Good luck and keep us updated with progress. The ich will likely be much easier to treat if you can provide cleaner (that is zero ammonia and zero nitrite) water.

[brentling]

In my 10 years of working at an aquarium shop, your post is the most common crisis I heard about from customers: the desire to "clean" the aquarium. I told folks to NEVER c"clean" their tanks. The posts above are accurate and useful. My simplified aquarium maintenance regime for newbies:

* light stocking of fish for a month or so
* feed no more than 1 x per day (better every other day)
* 25% water change once per week (no more than 25%!)
* scrape algae off of front of glass only! (sides too if you just can't stand it)
* If not a planted tank, turn lights on to view the fish when someone is there to
watch them
* keep a specific list of exactly which fish are in your tank and how many
* find someone who's advice makes sense to you and invest time in that relationship. You can talk to ten people and get ten different stories all of which may work fine, but not if the advice is all mixed together
* small local aquarium shops are by far your best resource to buy fish. NO MEGAPET
WAREHOUSE chains stores, etc.
* Do not "clean out" your aquarium - EVER!

All of this is hard earned advice learned in the trenches over a long period of time. I am very glad you found AC as there are tons of folks here who care about and know about aquariums. Several things that are on my newbie list are not necessarily applicable to more advanced setups and techniques, but if you follow them, your tank will be much more successful. When you are advanced enough to vary from my list, you will know it :) Good luck with your tanks, keep asking questions, and read this forum like crazy!!

[gcis]

Good advice by all who posted.......one bit of advice from someone who is still a bit of a newb but I own a ton of chemicals that the pest store people told me I would need (Ph decreaser, ammonia remover, bacterial supplement, etc.) and I have found that the only chemical that I need is the water conditioner for water changes. I try to stay away from the chemicals and let my bacteria colony and pristine water conditions do the rest. I've been there........but you have taken the first step to being successful with this hobby by joining this site. The members and moderators of AC have helped educate and inform me so that my aquarium can be enjoyable and my fish are happy. Good luck and hang in there!

[Fishkeeper71]

Well I am sorry to hear of your troubles and believe me when I tell you most if not all of us has gone through this. Easiest method for cycling a tank is to first set aside the amount of water you need for at the very minimum of 24 hours to allow for chlorine evaporation <Lack of better descriptive word>. Get your tank setup and cleaned <Even if new> By using a water/Aquarium salt mixture...do not use anything else and get a new cleaning utensil(s) just for your aquarium, Sponge and pads nothing abrasive and nothing that has ever been used with any kind of soaps etc. Fill the tank get everything in place and operating the only thing I would reccomend adding to the water is a conditioner to remove ammonia, chlorine and Chloramines. I have used different ones though some have favorites they all do an adequate job, I personally use NovAqua with Amquel both made by Kordan these are available at most Petstores. After that just wait and test the water until it all is at it should be previous posts did well in covering what to look for. Once the cycle has finished do not clean anything or remove the Bio media containing your beneficial bacteria, the filter media should be good to go. I begin with hardier type fish 1st to aid in the breaking in of the bio system usually with a few Corydoras Catfish <Numbers based on tank size> usually 1 or 2 for a 10 gallon and so on. After 1 week I begin to add more slowly until I reach my goal, over time slowly adding fish increases the system to allow a heavier load. Dropping them all in at once will overpower and ruin your systems stability. This method works best for me and may be a bit slower but the end result will be well worth it. This sounds like a repeat I know but I hope it helps and remember after the setup just let the system be unless something drastic occurs of course, no cleaning is necessary except for weekly maint. routines.

[Star_Rider]

First, take a deep breath.
You tried to do the right thing but, just maybe using the wrong methods ;)

at this stage it is important to try and get a feel for the situation you are in.
Get a test kit..probably one of the best investments.

get a reading for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. it may be helpful to get a reading of your kh/gh too.(tank parameters)

do water changes if your ammonia /nitrites are over .25 ppm. you may need to do a large water change if it is. 50%+ is not uncommon, and you will not hurt your cycle.

you should not be cleaning your filter until after the cycle. and then only parts of it. media should only be replaced when it is falling apart(carbon is the exception here..this is more a disgression)
most of your bacteria will reside on the surfaces of your tank..much of it will live in the media in the filter.
you can rinse your media in old tank water but you should rarely have to replace it.

monitor your tank parameters and do water changes as needed.
with cleaning and replacing your media you have probably wiped out a good number of the bacteria you need.

I would not move the fish unless you are moving them to an established tank. continue doing the live cycle and keep the water clean.

btw, I do large water changes weekly (up to 75%) on some tanks twice weekly. water changes will not hurt your fish nor your cycle ..if done properly.

no need to age water the conditioners will off gas the chlorine or remove the chloramine and lock it up..

good luck and hang in there.

[Hurley]

Whew! If I had to do that much work every water change this would not be the hobby for me.

Since your tanks are set up it seems like you will have to do a fishy cycle unless you can return the fish you have bought to the fish store. If you can't, just keep an eye on the parameters and try to keep them as low as possible by doing water changes as often as you can. Don't try and take short cuts (aka ammonialock bio boost, and like products), they usually don't work and can make the process take longer.

Also, leave your pH alone. It is more important to keep the ph constant and when it fluctuates it can be harmful to the fish. (SALT)

Like others said, don't clean the filter and equipment, just change the water and do gravel vacuums. IF you notice your filter is getting slow/clogged you can rinse it out in declorinated water or old tank water. After the cycle has happened clean your tank once a week and take out at least 25% of the water. Make sure whenever you add new water, you add dechlorinator so you don't kill any bacteria that has been established.

To treat ich, you will have to treat the whole tank. I like to treat ich using table salt (1.5-2 tablespoons per gallon) and raising the temp a bit. Treat for at least a week because ich is only vulnerable during one of its three stage life cycle.

Edit:
oops! Star_rider posted while I was constructing my post.

[Star_Rider]

yes, but you touched on the pH thing.. about not messing with the pH.

;)

[Bbateman03]

thanks for the help,it's really appreciated.i do have one or two questions.1- in the future if i ever have to treat for ick does the tank have to re cycle, or does it just take a 25% water change when i'm done? 2- what does weekly cleaning entail? do i just do a gravel vack, 25%-50% water change, and scrape the front,back, and sides of tank? lets make it 3- i've been doing 10% water changes when nitrite hit .5ppm (caution on test kit). should i let it get higher than that? if i do and change every couple days after a few weeks will everything just balance out? i get confused on how my nitrate can spike then decrease if every time my nitrite gets high i do a small water change.
again thanks a lot
cant wait to hear from you

[excuzzzeme]

IME - 25% 1x a week is not sufficient when starting out. At this point you should test your water daily to track the ammonia/nitrite and change as much water as needed to get it to a safe level.. AFTER your tank has cycled a weekly 20-30% water change is usually all that is needed. Some tanks I change 30% and some I do 50% depending on the bio-load. Heavily stocked tanks get more changed than lightly stocked tanks do. Also tanks with messy fish get large changes.

Most, (not all) bacterial infections can be treated with salt and heat. They are your best friends! Don't be afraid to use them.Many auqarium chemicals are snake oils sold to an unsuspecting public and ill-informed store personell.

Resaerch and learn all you can about your wet friendz and they will amaze you. You will even learn to identify personalities of some. (Yes, fish can have personalities). I have an Oscar thet when he is mad at me refuses to look at me or acknowledge its feeding time. He will look at the back glass until I walk away. If he is still po'd when I walk back up he turns his back to me again! He never stays mad long as he enjoys eating. LOL. Sometimes he just gets grumpy for no reason - oh well, that's his problem!

[KarlTh]

Brentling, most of your advice is sound, but I must take issue with



* 25% water change once per week (no more than 25%!)

This could result, easily, in fish mortality. If ammonia has risen to say 1ppm, your advice would allow it only to be reduced to 0.75ppm, and no more reductions (indeed it would increase again) for a week. Most fish, exposed to this level of ammmonia in a pH of 8 (which is not uncommon), would be dead in a few hours. If you must cycle with fish, do as many water changes as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite barely readable. There is no benefit in high ammonia levels; the bacteria do not reproduce any faster at 1ppm than at 0.25ppm, for the same reason that rabbits breed just as fast in the presence of a small pile of carrots more than they can eat as they do in the presence of a large pile of carrots more than they can eat.

excuzzzeme (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=69589) - salt has limited value against bacterial infections - as DrVader is keen on saying, it's the most overrated treatment out there, and heat can be fatal - columnaris is considerably more vigorous above 24C than below. Raising the temperature in a columnaris (far and away the commonest bacterial infection) is a death sentence. Your treatment is sound for ick, but not for bacterial conditions.

[DrNo]

Quote from KarlTh.....Brentling, most of your advice is sound, but I must take issue with



This could result, easily, in fish mortality. If ammonia has risen to say 1ppm, your advice would allow it only to be reduced to 0.75ppm, and no more reductions (indeed it would increase again) for a week. Most fish, exposed to this level of ammmonia in a pH of 8 (which is not uncommon), would be dead in a few hours. If you must cycle with fish, do as many water changes as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite barely readable. There is no benefit in high ammonia levels; the bacteria do not reproduce any faster at 1ppm than at 0.25ppm, for the same reason that rabbits breed just as fast in the presence of a small pile of carrots more than they can eat as they do in the presence of a large pile of carrots more than they can eat.

excuzzzeme (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=69589) - salt has limited value against bacterial infections - as DrVader is keen on saying, it's the most overrated treatment out there, and heat can be fatal - columnaris is considerably more vigorous above 24C than below. Raising the temperature in a columnaris (far and away the commonest bacterial infection) is a death sentence. Your treatment is sound for ick, but not for bacterial conditions.

So coherent, so clear... so wise :thm:

Re: your last questions; many of us perform larger water changes on fully cycled tanks several times a week with no ill effects. I perform two ~50% water changes in my 125 gallon with a substrate siphon (using a python) each time. The tank is moderately planted and not overstocked. Neverheless, I have messy bioload (i.e. 5 gold gourami = excrement machines). Vacuuming your substrate will be an important way to reduce organic detris that could lead to an ammonia spike and will not appreciably impact your nitrifying bacteria bed (again, the most important location of these beds is the biomedia within the filter). I would follow karl's advice and change water as frequently as needed to reduce ammonia and nitrite levels.

'Clean' water = healthy fish both from a disease standpoint and in their overall ability to thrive.