View Full Version : Algae ID and Solution (with pics!)
Hello, this is my tank. 40 Gallon, 5 Platy, 1 Sword Tail and 2 X-ray Tetra. Ammonia : 0, Nitrite : 0 , Nitrate : 0 , Ph : 6.0. Eh... no kH and gK testkit ... yet.
Lighting is on for 10 hours. I have 4 bulbs at 36w, 6400k. Fert is API Leaf Zone. (Soluble Potash 3.00% , Iron 0.10% , to dose 5ml per 38L per week) I dose 20ml per week, since my tank is about 180L. I also have some kind of Ball Fert which I put in my Eheim Pickup Internal Filter. The Active Ingredients were not stated. All it says are to 'put in place of high ventilation'.
(Note : I am very new to plants, of all the plants in the aquarium, I only know the java fern, anubias, windelov , java moss and asian ambulia. I bought the rest as I thought the were easy to keep. I know I shouldnt have done that. but oh well...)
http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287093_Image222.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287093_Image222.jpg)
http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287094_Image223.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287094_Image223.jpg) http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287095_Image224.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287095_Image224.jpg) http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287096_Image225.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287096_Image225.jpg)
http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287097_Image226.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287097_Image226.jpg)
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Now, the Algae problem. There seems to be 2 types. The 1st one (I COULD NOT get pictures) is developed on the glass, it looks like a mist. (Like dew on the car window in the mornings.)
The 2nd one (Pics below, brown and mostly in spots.) is also growing on my glass but also on my Java Fern, Windelov and Anubias, and even on or inside of my Eheim Picku Filter !! Im pretty sure it is that kind of algae on the plants as there was once I was able to 'rub it off' them.
http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287123_Image234.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287123_Image234.jpg)
(Brown spots on the plant leafs and covers some of the edges as well.)
http://img13.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t287124_Image235.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.gr/show.php/287124_Image235.jpg)
(Note the filter closer to the background, the lower part.)
Can anyone tell me what kind of Algae those are? And what is the remedy?
Thanks!
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side topic : am planning to get a bottom dweller for eating algae. Something that will maintain the algae and eat alage on plants without damaging them... Any small (<15 cm) sucker fishes to recommend? and it is really necessary to keep cories and ottos in groups of 6? how bout 3?
noodles62
10-13-2008, 7:36 AM
Is it a new tank? The brown could be diatoms....
If I had to guess on the filter, I'd say brush algae..
http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9
No idea on the "mist".. Can't see anything, and your description tells me nothing..
Bk718
10-13-2008, 10:02 AM
cant see much algae except the diatoms as noodles stated, which are fine/expected in a newly setup tank... i do see many non aquatic plants.
On the green mist, I'm gonna guess GDA (green dust algae), I get it still, but it takes a week or two to become bothersome and cleans off really easy with a mag-float. And the brown stuff is Diatoms, new glass tanks or substrate spur them, but they usually go away on their own.
On another note, is your nitrate reading correct?
The tank is not new as I have had fishes without the plants for a long time. However I can never tell if its cycled, because of the nitrate readings!
I check the expiry date and shaked a hell lot and it still was zero. I was thinking maybe its because of the plants sucking up the nitrate. Whats your say?
What about the brush algae? Diatoms do not grow on plants right?
Non aquatic plant? how can that be.. they were sold at the LFS.. besides.. can they withstand being submerged for so long?
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also, any experience in Siamese Algae Eaters? They do eat algae on plants without damaging the plants right?
Thanks!
grannylvsfish
10-13-2008, 12:31 PM
what filters are you using? I had diatoms for well over a year, no end in sight! then I stopped using those pre made filters and went with making my own, with this stuff
http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/03/31/8fa8_2.JPG
after wards brown algae or diatoms gone. also the green dust algea gone.
grannylvsfish
10-13-2008, 12:32 PM
The tank is not new as I have had fishes without the plants for a long time. However I can never tell if its cycled, because of the nitrate readings!
I check the expiry date and shaked a hell lot and it still was zero. I was thinking maybe its because of the plants sucking up the nitrate. Whats your say?
What about the brush algae? Diatoms do not grow on plants right?
Non aquatic plant? how can that be.. they were sold at the LFS.. besides.. can they withstand being submerged for so long?
---
also, any experience in Siamese Algae Eaters? They do eat algae on plants without damaging the plants right?
Thanks!
diatoms can and do grown on the plants. also pet stores are notorius for selling non aquatic plants. heck I got several before some one here told me what they were.
Fishkeeper71
10-13-2008, 1:35 PM
Okay lots of people have problems with algae some are good some are a sign that things are terribly wrong in your Bio system.
Green Algae: These algae can appear to you in several ways. Sometimes it just makes the water look green, other times it's a green film that adheres to the sides of your aquarium. In this form it is referred to as unicellular. In the multi-cellular form it can also make your water look green but it is very noticeable in that the cells are attached to one another and form long stringy tufts of green yuk.
What causes this and what to do? This is usually caused by phosphate and/or high nitrate levels in your tank, or if the tank is too brightly lit or the sun is hitting the tank directly.
It can also be caused by overfeeding your fish or over fertilization. You can remove the threadlike tufts of algae by hand, and wipe down the sides, clean off any decorations etc.
Diatoms: This is that ugly brown algae that forms on the sides of your tank, on your decorations, etc. It usually is found in a new tank. It is usually due to insufficient light, oxygen deficiency, and/or excess nitrate. The cure is simple wipe it off, hydro-vac the bottom well when you do your water changes. Algae eaters will also help. I have found that this algae usually goes away after your tank settles in for a few weeks.
Red Algae: This is the worst algae you will encounter. This appears as blackish dots on aquarium plants, wood, etc. (aka:Black dot algae) It also appears like bunches of thread known as beard algae, or small clusters or tufts known as black brush algae. This usually appears in nitrate-rich water with ph over 7.0 (C02 deficient). This stuff is practically impossible to get off the leaves, I've heard of scraping it off the leaves with your fingernails, but I always seem to damage the leaves when I try to do this, and I can never get it all off so it grows right back. Just remove the leave is my best advice. Trim the plant back and get rid of all of it. Scrape it off any decorations, or if it is on the sides of your tank. Do a good water change and reduce the PH level if it is high. Adding or increasing your CO2 level will usually reduce the ph and prevent this stuff. Also, if your tank lights are getting old they could be losing their color spectrum and this will add to the problem. There are a few Algae eaters that will eat the beard Algae, such as Crossocheilus Siamensis (true Siamese flying fox from Thailand-no substitutions) but, even these little guys cannot do away with an infestation, or keep up with it if it is rampant.
These a re the common ones and these descriptions were all found on the internet which I use a guide when something starts happening.
grannylvsfish
10-13-2008, 1:54 PM
Diatoms: This is that ugly brown algae that forms on the sides of your tank, on your decorations, etc. It usually is found in a new tank. It is usually due to insufficient light, oxygen deficiency, and/or excess nitrate. The cure is simple wipe it off, hydro-vac the bottom well when you do your water changes. Algae eaters will also help. I have found that this algae usually goes away after your tank settles in for a few weeks. can also be caused by to much phosphates in your tap water also I found adding a pre made filter to my back filteration caused it to get out of hand in my tanks. no pre made filters no more problems. mine did not go away like they say it does with new tanks.in fact I bought this tank used. the filter media I bought made a big difference !
JohnSmith
10-13-2008, 2:16 PM
what filters are you using? I had diatoms for well over a year, no end in sight! then I stopped using those pre made filters and went with making my own, with this stuff
http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/03/31/8fa8_2.JPG
after wards brown algae or diatoms gone. also the green dust algea gone.
What is that media, and where do you get it at?
Regards,
JS
PuppyFluffer
10-13-2008, 2:25 PM
I'm loving my olive nerite snails for algae control. They are very efficient, so much so that I feed algae wafers to keep them fed well enough.
oh thanks for the input..
so far im going to eliminate the possibility of green algae. Lets go back to diatoms and red algae without talking about all the phosphate or chemistry stuff. (I know nothing about that!) also, CO2 is not an option for me. I do not know about my phosphate levels but my PH is 6.0.
Diatoms :
1. most likely I have to wait for the tank to mature right? I guess I have to stock the tank more as I dont think it will ever matter with the current stocking.
2. Nitrates can be 0 right? or is it just my testkit fooling me?
Red Algae :
I think im just going to get a Siamese Algae Eater for that. I cant keep trimming my plants or dipping them in bleach... (some of the solutions I've read)
Thought of getting Snails as well. but read that they will not do will in ph 6.0 waters.
------------------------
grannylvsfish (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=60733) :
1. I dont get it, what has the alge got to do with the filters? I am using Ehiem Pickup Internal filters (2 of them)
2. What 'stuff' is that?
3. Non aquatic plants? Im still pretty skeptical.. how can they survive being submerged for so long?
Thanks
phanmc
10-15-2008, 2:05 PM
Your nitrate reading zero is probably accurate at that light level, you're probably deficient in many other nutrients as well.
Diatom algae will occur in new or old tanks as long as there are insufficient plant growth and trace levels of ammonia.
Since CO2 is not an option cut out 1 or 2 bulbs, you are using too much light. First thing that must be addressed.
You don't have enough plants, you will need to double the plant mass to have an easier time controlling algae.
As a temporary fix you can treat the tank with Flourish Excel. It acts as an algaecide and provides carbon for plant growth.
hello,
I am reading up and trying to address the nutirents problem..
I have already cut out 2 bulbs after reading certain articles.. thanks anways
and lastly, I need to know, i still cycle the tank the same way right (i use the increase fish stocking bit by bit over time method ) right?
but how do I know how much bio load I need, because the plants might use up the ammonia faster than the bacteria can get to it..
jpappy789
10-17-2008, 11:21 AM
On the green mist, I'm gonna guess GDA (green dust algae), I get it still, but it takes a week or two to become bothersome and cleans off really easy with a mag-float. And the brown stuff is Diatoms, new glass tanks or substrate spur them, but they usually go away on their own.
On another note, is your nitrate reading correct?
I'm gunna have to disagree with you on that one. GDA will not go away after only a week and it certainly will not if you try cleaning it off. Best method is to let it be and theoretically it shouldn't come back again.
Green dust algae (GDA) on the glass was determined by Tom Barr to be algae in the zoospore stage, and at that stage they are free swimming and extremely hard to kill. So he tried letting the GDA live out it's life cycle on the glass, without disturbing it, to see if it would go away on its own. It worked. After two to three weeks the GDA has changed to the adult form, changed appearance to a jelly like substance, wrinkled in appearance. If left alone still further it begins to die off and drop off the glass. Once gone it doesn't return.
I just finished trying this on my tank. I left the GDA alone for about 18-19 days, as it first became an opaque green curtain, hiding everything in the tank. After about two weeks it started to get thinner, so I could see through it a bit, and changed to a darker color. I finally scraped it away from two sides of the tank yesterday, leaving it on the other sides to see if it will fall off on its own. Now I have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it comes back right away as it always did before.
Yesterday I got to see my plants, shrimp and fish again for the first time in 2 weeks - wonderful feeling!It's taken me months and still no sign of it disappearing. Apparently it takes much longer in unplanted tanks. :mad2:
Okay lots of people have problems with algae some are good some are a sign that things are terribly wrong in your Bio system.
Green Algae: These algae can appear to you in several ways. Sometimes it just makes the water look green, other times it's a green film that adheres to the sides of your aquarium. In this form it is referred to as unicellular. In the multi-cellular form it can also make your water look green but it is very noticeable in that the cells are attached to one another and form long stringy tufts of green yuk.
What causes this and what to do? This is usually caused by phosphate and/or high nitrate levels in your tank, or if the tank is too brightly lit or the sun is hitting the tank directly.
It can also be caused by overfeeding your fish or over fertilization. You can remove the threadlike tufts of algae by hand, and wipe down the sides, clean off any decorations etc.
Diatoms: This is that ugly brown algae that forms on the sides of your tank, on your decorations, etc. It usually is found in a new tank. It is usually due to insufficient light, oxygen deficiency, and/or excess nitrate. The cure is simple wipe it off, hydro-vac the bottom well when you do your water changes. Algae eaters will also help. I have found that this algae usually goes away after your tank settles in for a few weeks.
Red Algae: This is the worst algae you will encounter. This appears as blackish dots on aquarium plants, wood, etc. (aka:Black dot algae) It also appears like bunches of thread known as beard algae, or small clusters or tufts known as black brush algae. This usually appears in nitrate-rich water with ph over 7.0 (C02 deficient). This stuff is practically impossible to get off the leaves, I've heard of scraping it off the leaves with your fingernails, but I always seem to damage the leaves when I try to do this, and I can never get it all off so it grows right back. Just remove the leave is my best advice. Trim the plant back and get rid of all of it. Scrape it off any decorations, or if it is on the sides of your tank. Do a good water change and reduce the PH level if it is high. Adding or increasing your CO2 level will usually reduce the ph and prevent this stuff. Also, if your tank lights are getting old they could be losing their color spectrum and this will add to the problem. There are a few Algae eaters that will eat the beard Algae, such as Crossocheilus Siamensis (true Siamese flying fox from Thailand-no substitutions) but, even these little guys cannot do away with an infestation, or keep up with it if it is rampant.
These a re the common ones and these descriptions were all found on the internet which I use a guide when something starts happening.
Your nitrate reading zero is probably accurate at that light level, you're probably deficient in many other nutrients as well.
Diatom algae will occur in new or old tanks as long as there are insufficient plant growth and trace levels of ammonia.
Since CO2 is not an option cut out 1 or 2 bulbs, you are using too much light. First thing that must be addressed.
You don't have enough plants, you will need to double the plant mass to have an easier time controlling algae.
As a temporary fix you can treat the tank with Flourish Excel. It acts as an algaecide and provides carbon for plant growth.
Everything I have ever read or heard says that diatoms are due to the silicates leached by newer tanks or in the source water...
hello,
I am reading up and trying to address the nutirents problem..
I have already cut out 2 bulbs after reading certain articles.. thanks anways
and lastly, I need to know, i still cycle the tank the same way right (i use the increase fish stocking bit by bit over time method ) right?
but how do I know how much bio load I need, because the plants might use up the ammonia faster than the bacteria can get to it..
What type of test kit are you using? I have a hard time believing that your nitrates are zero...
phanmc
10-17-2008, 1:17 PM
Everything I have ever read or heard says that diatoms are due to the silicates leached by newer tanks or in the source water...
Simple test I did to debunk that theory. I have a low light tank that's been established for 4+ years with a ton of crypts and java ferns. I stopped doing water changes and dosing ferts so the only nutrients being added was from the fish food. Did this for for several months and had induced both brown diatom algae and BBA. Where did the silicate come from?
and lastly, I need to know, i still cycle the tank the same way right (i use the increase fish stocking bit by bit over time method ) right?
but how do I know how much bio load I need, because the plants might use up the ammonia faster than the bacteria can get to it..
When you have enough plant biomass, you can ignore cycling in the traditional sense. Your plants will act as your biological filtration so add lots of plants and stock as you normally would.
jpappy789
10-17-2008, 1:22 PM
Simple test I did to debunk that theory. I have a low light tank that's been established for 4+ years with a ton of crypts and java ferns. I stopped doing water changes and dosing ferts so the only nutrients being added was from the fish food. Did this for for several months and had induced both brown diatom algae and BBA. Where did the silicate come from?
When you have enough plant biomass, you can ignore cycling in the traditional sense. Your plants will act as your biological filtration so add lots of plants and stock as you normally would.
Did you test the source water for silicates?
How was there "insufficient plant growth" when you had a heavily planted tank taking in all the possible nutrients? What was the ammonia levels at?
Not trying to debunk your debunking but I don't understand how you came to your conclusions...
phanmc
10-17-2008, 2:21 PM
Did you test the source water for silicates?
The tank water shows no detectable silicates, under .5ppm, using Seachem's silicate test kit.
How was there "insufficient plant growth" when you had a heavily planted tank taking in all the possible nutrients? What was the ammonia levels at?
Plant growth slows when there is a nutrient deficiency. Plants won't take up excess nitrogen if there is a potassium deficiency, likewise with any other nutrients. The plants were definitely showing signs of nutrient deficiency. Ammonia levels were undetectable but this is an established tank with plenty of nitrifying bacteria.
In addition to this test, I have never had brown algae in a new tank setup that was heavily planted with good growing conditions.
jpappy789
10-17-2008, 4:53 PM
The tank water shows no detectable silicates, under .5ppm, using Seachem's silicate test kit.
Have you tested the tap water? How long afterward were you testing? If the diatoms used up the silicates they wouldn't show in the tests.
Common knowledge says that diatoms need silica to build their frustules. I would assume that the lack of available silicates wouldn't allow them to grow and multiply. Apparently not...
Plant growth slows when there is a nutrient deficiency. Plants won't take up excess nitrogen if there is a potassium deficiency, likewise with any other nutrients. The plants were definitely showing signs of nutrient deficiency. Ammonia levels were undetectable but this is an established tank with plenty of nitrifying bacteria.
In addition to this test, I have never had brown algae in a new tank setup that was heavily planted with good growing conditions.
I am still confused how you came up with the ammonia part...your tanks had no ammonia but got diatoms yet you said earlier that they need trace amounts of ammonia. :confused:
phanmc
10-17-2008, 5:25 PM
Have you tested the tap water? How long afterward were you testing? If the diatoms used up the silicates they wouldn't show in the tests.
Common knowledge says that diatoms need silica to build their frustules. I would assume that the lack of available silicates wouldn't allow them to grow and multiply. Apparently not...
Tap water shows very low amounts of silicates, slight coloring of the test kit. I didn't do water changes to introduce a significant amount of tap water to the tank, only topping off which would add very little. Still, I'm probably adding very small amounts of silicate from the fishfood, but not enough to be detected.
Common knowledge would suggest diatom algae would need some silicate in order to survive, that does not mean that excess silicate would induce diatom growth. Like anything else they need other nutrients and ammonia is the leading source of algae problems.
I am still confused how you came up with the ammonia part...your tanks had no ammonia but got diatoms yet you said earlier that they need trace amounts of ammonia. :confused:
Trace amount of ammonia is pretty much almost always present but is undetectable by your test kits because consumer test kits aren't very accurate. Like bacteria, algae doesn't need alot of ammonia to get started.
How do I know it's ammonia and not some other nutrient? I simply overdose one nutrient at a time into a healthy tank to see the outcome. Nitrates? 40ppm doesn't seem to induce algae. Phosphate? 5ppm doesn't seem to induce algae. I don't have a potassium test kit but I know I generously overdose on potassium regularly, same with micros. Ammonia? Add enough to be detectable to your test kits and you'll get green water, keep it up and you'll say hello to the rest of the family.