View Full Version : Overdose with DIY CO2
Hello,
I think I OD’d my DD black angels with DIY CO2 last night.
I use two heavy duty gallon jugs hooked together and put the outlet into the canister inlet.
At night I usually take the hose off but last night I forgot.
I read somewhere that injecting too much DIY CO2 cannot be done.
When I woke there were a couple of them swimming sideways and upside down.
I did a 50% WC and put an air stone in the tank.
They look OK now but it scared me.
The aquarium is a planted 46G BF with six DD blacks and two ABN.
Rena XP2 , 96 Watt A&H lighting in DIY hood.
EI fertilization.
Does anyone else think it’s possible to over saturate the water column with DIY CO2?
Thank you
Charles
Slappy*McFish
10-18-2008, 1:42 PM
With 2 gallons of DIY?..lol..it's possible. Not very cost effective, however. You might as well go pressurized.
petluvr
10-18-2008, 1:57 PM
I have also been told that it is highly unlikely, however I think the same thing happened on my 29. I was using only 1 two litre bottle and I hooked up a second, within a week all my RCS were dead along with many of my larger briggs. The water clouded to the point you couldn't even see the back of the tank. All params were ok so I unhooked one of the bottles and the tank is getting better, with 50% WC's everday. So yes I do think it is possible:)
I would gladly go pressurized but it's so expensive.
Got a wife fighting cancer and a lot of medical bills.
Thanks for the responses
Charles
TwoTankAmin
10-18-2008, 5:55 PM
It is extremely risky to put a diy co2 feed directly into any filter intake, especially a canister. It is very likely that the yeast mix will get sucked into the filter and then into the tank, this is far more deadly than the co2.
2Tank,
I actually use 3 - 1G AriZona ice tea bottles the first 2 feed an empty bottle which then feeds the filter intake. The caps scres on tightly and I use model airplane bulkhead fittings for an (CO2) tight seal.
Thanks for the advice
Charlrs
Bk718
10-18-2008, 10:09 PM
you sure it wasnt something else in the tank that made the fish act that way?? i did diy diffusion via canister on my 29g before and never had problems.. Even now when i do pressurized and do a high bubble count i still havent gotten any funky fish behavior...
My water parameters were:
NH3/NH4 - 0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm (tap water .25 ppm)
PO3-4 .5 ppm (tap water .5 ppm)
KH 89.5 ppm (tap water 89.5 ppm)
GH 161.1 ppm (tap water 143.2 ppm)
PH 6.0 (tap water 7.0)
Note my PH kit won’t show below 6.0
When I noticed the fish in distress, I immediately started an air stone and began a PWC.
I siphoned water from the tank into 4 – 5 G buckets then I replaced the water.
I then tested the water in the buckets.
Using a CO2 calculator, I figure the CO2 level was at 150 ppm.
The fish are fine now but the experience scared me.
Thank you
Charles
Cory Keeper
10-19-2008, 7:12 AM
if it was at 150 PPM, they should be dead. Swimming sideways isn't a CO2 OD symptom. btw, those calculations can be thrown off. Best to get a drop checker and make sure.
Slappy*McFish
10-19-2008, 12:10 PM
Nitrite .25 ppm (tap water .25 ppm)
That could be part of your problem right there.
150 ppm is IMPOSSIBLE with diy.. as cory said, the fish wouldnt be swimming on the side.. they would be stuck to the filter intake..
the .25 nitrite is definitely what might've caused it
I started injecting CO2 at 7 AM. It's now 11:23 AM..
PH is now 6.6, KH @ 5 drops = 89.5 ppm
according to Chucks CO2 chart this is 37.678 ppm of CO2.
When I leave the tube in the tank the PH drops to 6.0 with the KH still 5 drops = 89.5. CO2 is 150 ppm
Just trying to figure what happened yesterday.
Thank you
Charles
I think a mod should move this to planted tank part of the forum.. then you might get some more help..
I believe your calculations are incorrect
pH
KH
degrees
ppm
CO2
ppm.
pH
KH
degrees
ppm
CO2
ppm.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm)
Those CO2 charts are inaccurate, due to an aquariums innate buffering system.
i understand thats the "formula" for his calculations but theres other things in the tank that affect the ph swings. So basically the calculations/formula becomes inaccurate.
Ninja'd by Riiz :) lol
Thanks for all opinions.
I do 40-50% PWC's every other day.
Thanks again
Charles
Theres no reason for you to really do them so often.
J double R
10-21-2008, 8:36 PM
150 is pretty far fetched, but don't let people think its not possible to OD on DIY. ;)
ask me, i've done it. heh.
that said, i dont think thats what caused your problems.
CBWMN
10-21-2008, 10:08 PM
Since my nitrates come out of the tap at .25, and I'm doing 40-50% PWC's every other day and the angels have done well until I added the extra bottle??
What do you honestly think??
CO2 is CO2 regardless if it's DIY or pressurized.
Thanks
Charles
PS: Sorry to go against the flow, but facts are facts.
Since my nitrates come out of the tap at .25, and I'm doing 40-50% PWC's every other day and the angels have done well until I added the extra bottle??
What do you honestly think??
CO2 is CO2 regardless if it's DIY or pressurized.
Thanks
Charles
PS: Sorry to go against the flow, but facts are facts.
so is it nitrites that are high or nitrates?? either way if they are high out the tap, whats the purpose of doing a wc??
co2 is co2 but the amount of co2 you get from a diy is no where near the same as pressurized.
I was advised that in order to succesfully raise DD blacks, I need to keep the water quality up. And the best way to do that is a PWC every other day. It's worked so far.
Thanks
Charles
yee but i dont see 40-50% as partial really.. most of the time when someone says partial water changes its about 10-20%.. 40-50% is a regular water change and if done so often, can throw off the water parameters..
Either way i would add carbon/purigen or any other chemical filtration to get rid of the nitrite in the tank. Since from the information you gave us, the water parameter is what sticks out the most as to what caused your fish to show weird behavior.
I do have carbon in the XP2. Haven't replaced it in over a month. I'll change it tomorrow. I usually add 16 - 18 gallons of water at the WC. I've complained to the
EP water district about the Nitrites, so far to no avail.
Thank you
Charles
If you can get your hands on Purigen it will help you alot more than carbon. It lasts longer and can be recharged.
Star_Rider
10-22-2008, 12:02 PM
Charles with DD black Angels I assume it is a good idea to do water changes at least 3 X per week.
they are probably the most difficult strain to raise. and are sensitive to water conditions.
it is not uncommon to see breeders do this size water change daily.
that said. if you suspect the added CO2 given the DD blacks are sensitive. they may be reacting to the added CO2. since you added the extra and noticed issues i would remove the extra and watch what happens. the DD Blacks may be reacting to the extra CO2.
I doubt the water is over saturated but it does appear to have an adverse affect on your fish.
Star
Thank you for your input. I'll pull one bottle now.
I also get up around midnight and start an airstone in the tank.
I will put a timer on the air pump today and run it for a few hours before dawn.
How long do you think I'll have to keep up the 3X WC's?
I was told to keep it up till they are silver dollar sized.
Thank you
Charles
Star_Rider
10-22-2008, 2:56 PM
you can try to taper off at that size .
these are smaller than quarter size? if so they are pretty young still ;)
I have a hard color morph to maintain too a black / green..found out they are sensitive after I got them.
I am down to 1 50% + water change every 6 days. ;) I found the female sensitive to CO2 and now have her in a low maint tank. with a marble male.
Squawkbert
10-22-2008, 3:08 PM
So, 2g of DIY in a 46g tank - exactly what I have, I've not gotten over 30PPM yet (according to my drop checker). I agree that NO2 is more likely the culprit.
Prime added to the replacement water and/or some purigen (a.k.a. Zeolite) in the filter will address this. I think Prime is the better solution to the problem as it won't starve the nitrosomonas colony of its NO2 like zeolite will. Adding some live plants, if you don;t already have some, will also help soften any NH3/NO2/NO3 spikes you may encounter.
Water change schedule - one good change/vac. per week should be adequate once the NO2 is under control, even for DD angels.
If you're still spooked by chart calculations (which are inherently inaccurate because you have more than carbonate contributing to the hardness of aquarium water), get a drop checker and/or have an air pump & airstone on a timer set to run when the lights are off - until an hour or two before they come back on.
Thanks you Star rider & Squawkbert
I got these July 2nd & the bodies were nickle size. The largest are now larger thatn a silver dollar. 6 1/2 tall fin to fin.
I also store my water in the same sized jugs and use prime when I fill the jugs.
I like them a lot but I cn tell I'm in for a test..
Charles
Star_Rider
10-22-2008, 5:07 PM
wow I missed the NO2 .25 ppm that would definitely be a contributing factor.