sexing rams

[CHINABOY1021]

Hey all,

A buddy of mine is a cichlid freak and he's told me that rams are sometimes hard to sex as they dont always show their sexual differences in appearence.

I got 2 rams and would like to try breeding, so a male and female in same tank would be helpful ; )

the following pics are not pics of my ram, but my 2 rams look EXACTLY like the ones in the pic. the buddy of mine says somewhat both could be males. btw, they are showing some behavoir with each other..little chasing..little of those "stretch-out-fin" slow movements.

heres the pics:

ram 1)
http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/ramek%20male%20plantedtankdotnetslashforums.jpg
-long body shape, not as brillant coloring
-the top fin is a rectangle. it's parallel i could say. corners of fin is almost 90 degree angle
-bottom 2 fins near the head is pointy.

ram 2)
http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/mlae%20ram%20color%20thumb%20jpg.jpg
-bad pic, but my ram looks exactly like it. this pic is not resized in any way.
-kinda "stubby" looking. short body, same height as ram 1
-more darker and brillant colors
-on top fin, there's a tiny bit of the finnage nearest the head that has black coloration thats sticks out taller than the other parts. kind of like spike..
-2 fins at the bottom near the head is rounded off at the tip.
-top fin and bottom fin (nearest to tail) is not as rectangular. its not parallel. fin corners are not 90 degrees angle.
-(not shown in pic) my ram has a pink belly. also the flourescent blue markings on the head is noticeably bigger than the markings on ram 1.

thanks for helping. the picture of the 2 rams have a huge difference, but my buddy said its possible that they're the same sex. hope you guys can help me out. thanks in advance.

[PumaWard]

http://aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16873

This thread shows some good pictures with a male and female ram.

Your first picture of a ram looks more like a female bolivian ram than a blue ram, though I could be mistake. Females usually have a pink stomach and shorter dorsal rays than the male.

Hope this helps a little.

[CHINABOY1021]

thanks for the info. possibility the first pic is a bolivan. hopefully not, as the store that carrys german rams is quite far. both rams can from different LFS.
edit:

this webpage doubts me of ram #1 being a bolivan

http://www.plantedtank.net/ramcichlid.html

[valerie]

my male and female ram can be looked at here http://64.191.28.50/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=132071#post132071

My female has blue speckles in the black dot on her side. She has a pinkish tummy. And her first and second dorsal rays aren't extended.

My male has no blue speckles in his black dot.His dorsal rays are quite extended. And he is more brillantly colored then the female,even when they both show there best colors.

[CHINABOY1021]

which one of mine in the picture is f or m?

only difference between my fish and pic, is the ram#2 has pink belly

[valerie]

Can you describe each of your fish? Do they have extended dorsal rays? which has a pink belly? If any of them have blue specks in the black dot?

These are the characteristics females suauly have:
-pink belly
-blue speckles in the black dot
-dorsal rays are very extended

males usually have these characteristics:
-No blue specks in their black dot
-Extended first and second dorsal rays

[AquaticEnt]

The easiest way to tell is the first and sometimes second dorsal ray/spine will be extended on the male ram, which is a brief summarization of what everyone else here has said.

There are so many color variants available now, that the pink belly during breeding season is the only true color way to sex these little guys.

[CHINABOY1021]

thanks guys.

my ram #2 which was bought yesterday died on me.........
it could be bad introducing to the tank as i was eager to put him in.

i plan on buying 2-3 more. and ive learned patients pays.

just a question.

why are the rams im currently planning to buy look different from ram #2. they are smaller versions (no more than 1") of ram #1. they have silver/yellowish body with some black markings. as #2 as a lot darker colors and colored fins?

[Tim Bo]

Thought I recognized the second picture! - it's a picture I took of a German Blue Ram I had a few years ago. A beautifully colored male Ram that lived for 3.5 years. The first picture you showed looks like a female Bolivian Ram. The blue spangles in the black spot usually signify a female though I have seen many exceptions.

The Rams you describe in the store sound like Bolivian Rams though some pics would help to be certain...

[CHINABOY1021]

tim, you had one AWESOME ram.

i would love to have a few like that, unfortunely mine just died this morning.

[AquaticEnt]

What are your water parameters? Rams are very sensitive to elevated pH and hardness levels. I would even say moreso than discus are. So, if you have hard water with a medium-high KH level, you'll likely need to invest in an RO unit or something similar for breeding gold/blue rams (if you haven't already).

You may want to try your hand at bolivian rams first. They're hardier than the blue/gold, and come from a natural pH of around 7.6, though the water should be somewhat soft for breeding.

I'm currently keeping bolivians in two tanks, one a display, one for growout. The display is a planted 75g with a pH around 8.2 and a hardness that I won't even go into. The other is a growout tank with a pH around 7.9, and a hardness around 150ppm. In the past month, after bringing them in on a 8-hour road trip, I've lost only one of 50.

[CHINABOY1021]

thanks for the advice. my water is not bad. ph around 7.5
my ram #1 is doing very well, i think i have enough confidence to go out and grab another 2 hopefully from a better stock.

[Tim Bo]

What size tank are you putting them in? As mentioned earlier, Bolivia Rams are better Rams to start with.
If your water chemistry doesn't differ much form your LFS, you will have an easier time getting them to be 'happy.' I don't know if you've seen the page, but take a look here for lots more info on German Rams:
http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/Kribensis.html

[wayne]

Who here has had wild caught rams - I haven't , though I've had a bunch of other S American dwarfs. I have a strong feeling that the quality of most rams is so poor, I'd rather spend the money, and fiddle with my water a bit to maintain a wildcaught fish as it might be a lot hardier than the majority of fish I see.
Most rams I see are awful, and are obviously doomed - small weedy, sickly, pale colours.