new tank help

[maxludo]

i recently bought a 120gal tank for cheap and iam having troubles deciding what filtration system to setup. Can i get away with having jsut a wet/dry canister filter such as an eheim 2229? Or would i need a protein skimmer and/or power heads? I would prefer not to set up a sump system but if there are any DIY plans that any knows of it would be appreciated if this type of system is advised.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

max

[PmAn2k3]

Hello, Max, Im new to saltwater as well, from what I have read, you will need a copule (maybe even 3 or more for a 120g) powerheads, and definately a skimmer, also a deep sand bed is recomended (4-6 inches)... you will need (depending on tank dimensions, I used the standard size of a 120g *48"x24"*) appx. 240 pounds of sand to acquire a 4" Deep Sand Bed or DSB according to this (http://reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.php) link.

I have 2 MaxiJet Powerheads for my 55 gallon. and I doubt you will beable to find a Hang-on skimmer for that size of tank, most if not all skimmers for 120g+ are in-sump skimmers, so good luck.

Edit: Please confine your advice that sends people to other sites to established, reputable sites. This is NOT a slam on you, but advertising your own forum within your signature is acceptable, making it part of the statement is really not okay. OG

[mogurnda]

Welcome Max!
Your filtration will depend on what you want to keep. Reef? FIsh only?

[kreblak]

I don't think much of canister filters in SW. There is a thread to that effect several notches down the page. Here's a link:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16813

In my humble opinion, a couple of powerheads, a DSB, and a skimmer are about the best filtration a person can get.

Please note that powerheads are not filtration devices in and of themselves. They simply serve to move water through the tank, keeping oxygen rich water evenly disbursed to all areas, and helping ammonia and nitrites diffuse throughout the live rock and DSB, where your biofilter lives.

Your skimmer serves to keep most of the dissolved organics and crud out of the tank. Mine produces some nasty foam, and lots of it. For a tank of your size, I would recommend getting an in-sump model. Since you already said you don't want a sump, my only suggestion is to get two hang-on-tank skimmers and run them together. That's going to be noisy.

[maxludo]

sorry the tank is to be fish-only. What is a DSB?
If you guys recommend having a sump system can you tell me where there are plans for these?
thanks

[PmAn2k3]

Originally posted by PmAn2k3
Hello, Max, Im new to saltwater as well, from what I have read, you will need a copule (maybe even 3 or more for a 120g) powerheads, and definately a skimmer, also a deep sand bed is recomended (4-6 inches)... you will need (depending on tank dimensions, I used the standard size of a 120g *48"x24"*) appx. 240 pounds of sand to acquire a 4" Deep Sand Bed or DSB according to this (http://reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.php) link.

I have 2 MaxiJet Powerheads for my 55 gallon. and I doubt you will beable to find a Hang-on skimmer for that size of tank, most if not all skimmers for 120g+ are in-sump skimmers, so good luck.

Onion Girl, this used to be acceptable, waht changed?

Whoa, did any not see the above post? seeing kreblak basically repeated my post, and Max just asked what is a DSB, ALL explained above Max, and hey I forgot WELCOME TO AC! :D :D Glad you finally found us!

[maxludo]

sorry just trying to get used to all these abbreviations. i appreciate your help.

[maxludo]

if i have an in-sump skimmer what extra do i need to buy other than the skimmer, pump and sump tank. Are there any DIY directions to do so?

thanks

[PmAn2k3]

Max, stay on for a few, I will dig something up.... I wooll post it back huere

srry for typos my fingerh urts

[PmAn2k3]

Clcik here-DIY SUMP PLANs (http://www.ozreef.org/diy/sump.html)

[maxludo]

just what i was looking for. Your a champion. thanks a lot:cool:

[maxludo]

so you think i scrap the canister idea. Get a HOT filter say aquaclear 500, a DSB 4+ inches, 2 or 3 power heads and a skimmer and this will suffice? Also, with such a deep sand bed as the crud builds up what is the common to clean it?

thanks

[mogurnda]

Don't clean a DSB. You want to develop an anaerobic environment to foster the growth of bacteria that will reduce nitrate to N2.

[BrianH]

While it is possible to run a successful 120 gal. tank sumpless, I would suggest you look into sumps. The problem I see is that you will have a very difficult time finding a Hang On Tank skimmer that will handle a tank that large. You will also have to add some very powerful(and quite a few) powerheads to create the minimum 10x tank volume water movement. Please do your research beofre setting up the tank. After the tank is running it becomes difficult to make major changes to the filtration.

Brian

[kreblak]

Max,
To answer your question about cleaning a DSB, you do not run a gravel vaccum over the sand or anything like that. In fact, you want to leave the sand alone as much as possible. Like Mogurnda said, you are trying to leave the bottom layers undisturbed so that very little oxygen diffuses down there. In that low oxygen zone will grow a layer of anoxic bacteria that will convert your nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas.

Yes, you will get some crud on and in the sand. For that, you get a small army of scarlett and blue legged hermit crabs. They will do an excellent job of sifting through the top layer scavenging any bits of food they find, as will as keeping algaes trimmed back. Also, if you add live rock to the tank (HIGHLY recommended) your hermits will clean it is well. Live rock often times contains hitchhikers like bristleworms that will help sift through your DSB.

Also, like Brian said, you will need a minimun of 10x water turnover created by your powerheads. In a 120 gallon tank, that means you are going to need 1200 ghp turnover at the least. I recommend going up to 12-15x (1440-1800 gph). A trio of powerheads can easily accomplish this.

One last thing: while I normally recommend having a HOT filter in case one ever needs to run carbon filtration, but for a 120 gallon tank it is really a moot point. There aren't a whole lot of filters that can turn over enough water to effectively filter that large a volume.

Oh, and welcome to AC! ;)

[maxludo]

firstly id like to thank evryone for there time and effort in helping me and welcoming to the ac community! anyway..
if i have an aquaclear 500 HOT filter which has an output of 500gal p/h plus 3, 400 gal p/h power heads this would be turning over 1700 gal p/h in total. 14 times the tank capacity. BUT iam sure you all know better so i've been investigating sump systems, a mini-reef system is a sump system right? can these be used in salt water aquariums as ive only heard the 'mini-reef' term used on freshwater aquariums.

Thanks again

[kreblak]

With the filter and the three powerheads, you have plenty of water movement. If your HOT filter really does turn 500 gph, then keep it and run carbon when you feel like it. Personally, I run activated charcoal with a mesh pre-filter once a month for about a week, or until it is sufficiently coated in crud. My filter claims to turn over 400 gph, but in reality it is more like 200.

As far as the term "mini-reef" goes, it is my understanding that it means any captive reef system. I can't see how it is applicable in FW, but I haven't kept FW fish in years. I would recommend setting up a sump, if you can. With 120 gallons, sumps really help.