Unstoppable Fin Rot?

[FacelessMasses]

Hello!

My wife and I set up our first tank a little over a year ago and in doing so I spent quite a while on these boards learning. I'm so glad they are here and so many are willing to help.

In addition to our 10 gal aquarium, we have a small(er) 2.5 gallon in which we have a single betta and japanese algae eating shrimp. And our poor betta has been ill for some time with a small whitish looking area where his dorsal fin meets his body.

My first thought was fin/tail rot, so we have treated (not consecutively, and not necessarily in this order) with Jungle Labs LifeGuard, Mardel Maracyn (erythromycin), API Tetracyline, and Mardel Maroxy (for fungus, did treat consecutively with other medication). All to no luck. I've added freshwater aquarium salt to the water, and have done multiple water changes (I change his water every 2 weeks regularly, and the tank is filtered with the filter set to the lowest setting - ammonia/nitrites always at 0, nitrites may become detectible right before a water change).

As the issue was where the fins met the body, not starting at the edge of the fins and moving toward the body, I was hesitant to think fin/tail rot... but not knowing what else it might be, that's what I attempted to treat. Additionally, his fins looked as if they might be getting shorter, so I thought it would be prudent to treat for fin/tail rot anyway - and hope the other went away.

Now I'm at a loss for what to do for the little guy and was hoping someone might recognize it as some other malady, or possibly be able to give a better/stronger treatment if it is fin/tail rot.

Thanks so much for the time!

[Neervana]

hmmm...well first of all 2.5 gallons...IMO...is kinda bit small for your betta and perhaps it is stressing him out, thats why it keeps on triggering him to become supceptible to fin rot...also one water change once every two weeks is not good. for smaller aquariums it needs to be *at least* once a week, especially with a 2.5gal. how much are you feeding and what is it? this may just all be down to a stressed betta and do you have a heater in your tank? also if it's not going away it may not be fin rot, i think you just need to stop treating him with meds because it may stress him out even more... actually after looking at your picture i think i can see an area where it has actually reached the base of his fin...if that is the case, then perhaps this is the reason why it is not growing back? because it has reached the "fleshy" part?

[snoopy65]

Daily water changes is what I would do. Keep his water as clean as possible. Bettas are pretty hardy fish but are sensitive to meds. Is there anything sharp in the tank he could be catching himself on? It looks more like a wound than fin rot to me. I agree that you might want to invest in a 5 gal or larger tank for him with filter and heater. While Bettas are able to "live" in smaller containers and in less than ideal conditions, they don't thrive that way. Good luck with him.

[FacelessMasses]

Thanks for the reply. :-) I knew that bettas without filtration needed a water change every several days (edited from "weeks"), but had thought with the filtration I might not need to do them as often. I also read, before buying him, various arguments for/against filtration for bettas. I opted for filtration, with the filter turned down to barely moving any water.

When we first got him, I checked ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels frequently until, after two weeks, I wanted to do a water change. Then kept watching for a while afterwards. As the levels either were never detectable, or barely detectable right before a water change, I assumed the water was fine for him.

We do have a heater in the water, and it stays between 78 and 82/83 in his tank. As for food, he eats HBH Betta Bites, and once or twice a week gets frozen bloodworms (thawed). We tried alternating the Betta Bites and a flake food for bettas (I don't recall the name), but he wouldn't eat the flake food.

There isn't anything terribly sharp in his tank. There is a silk plant he likes to sit on, a plastic plant that doesn't have sharp edges (more rubbery than hard plastic). And there is a piece of wood which algae grows on for the shrimp to eat (not very much). He does like to hide behind the wood, as it is propped against a corner of the tank, so it is possible he is scraping himself on it. The wood is very soft, but for his fins it may still be "sharp."

[excuzzzeme]

As Neervana pointed out you need frequent water changes - no less than weekly. Make sure water is dechlorinated before using. Also quit using so many meds.especially if your not doing frequent water changes. You need to medicate and then change water and wait to see if it had the appropriate effect. It won't change overnight.

[FacelessMasses]

Okay, more frequent water changes it is. :-) As for the medications, those I listed were over the course of several months. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. We would try one, then wait two to three weeks, watching for improvement. If none, we'd move on to something else.

[snoopy65]

Sometimes we come on a bit strong. I am sorry if I came across that way. I would go strictly with the daily water changes for now and see if he improves. I don't normally do alot of meds, but some on here use them and have very good success. Someone with personal experience may very well chime in and give you a specific med that will help him. By the Way: Welcome to AC.

[msjinkzd]

It really sounds like you are concientous and doing a good job. My son has a betta that had similar ailments. He is ina 5g tank and had some significant loss of finnage. I started doing every other day water changes and he healed up dramatically. Although your readings are good, I feel strongly that the cleanest water possible has the most curative powers in alot of cases. In a 2.5g tank, it should be pretty easy and not very time consuming to do daily or every other day water changes and see if it helps at all.

[FacelessMasses]

Thanks to you all for all the input. I really do appreciate it! And thanks for the welcome. I wish I had joined earlier so my first post would have been a "Hi, this is me" rather than a "OH NOES!"

[jpappy789]

Hmmmm...What type of test kit are you using?

[Rbishop]

And unless I missed it, describe your filtration....

[FacelessMasses]

Hi again, sorry this is the first chance I've had to check in. As a quick update, we've been doing 50% water changes every other day, so far with no improvement. He is still active, with no other visible signs of injury/illness than the problem with his dorsal fin. It actually looks like it might be getting worse though, with the fin torn a bit more. I'm trying to decide if I should remove any of the plants, or the piece of drift wood, so that if it is an injury he doesn't aggrivate it. But then he won't have anything to sit in/on/behind and I don't want him to be stressed to be out in the open constantly.

To answer the questions that have popped up, the test kits we're using are actually test strips, Jungle Ammonia Quick Dip and API 5 in 1 test strips (nitrate/nitrite/ph).

The filtration in the betta's tank is a Whisper, in tank (I believe it is rated for up to 10 gal) activated carbon filtration system. The filter has an adjustable flow rate, and we keep it on the lowest setting possible.

We use a small bit of crushed coral in with the filter (in a never-seen-soap nylon) to keep the ph at around 7.8. Some sites at which I read said that might be little high for a betta, but after quite a bit of research it was the best we could come up with to guard against a sudden (deadly) ph drop. And I had read quite a bit that most fish will be all right with a slightly out of range ph so long as it remains constant.

We used API Stress Zyme for cycling the tank (and we add a little more on occassion - once a month perhaps - just because I'm paranoid) and in over a year I've only seen the ammonia level get more than just barely into the stress range (0.5 ppm) before a water change (as stated before, we were doing water changes every other week).

Thanks so much for all the interest and advice! We'll keep up on the water changes and keep our fingers crossed!

[jpappy789]

Test strips are notoriously inaccurate. I would get a liquid test kit (API) and see ehere your levels are. Poor water quality is the #1 reason for disease/infection, and also the most curable and preventable.

[saram521]

I would say keep up with the water changes and maybe remove the piece of driftwood, but leave in the plants. The driftwood may have a sharp corner, and it won't do him a disservice to remove it. I would also look at getting a different heater. How many watts does yours have? For a 2.5 gallon tank, you want to get a heater that only has about 7-10 watts. The extreme range of temps. your tank is experiencing is nto good for the betta. The temp. should be stable and maybe only move a slight bit, not even a full degree. Unstable temp. is most likely adding stress to your betta. Petsmart/Petco has a 7 watt heater, but drs. foster and smith carries a 10 watt heater by marineland that keeps the water at 78 and cannot be adjusted, and 78 would be just fine.