Ahhh.. the diatoms will not go away

[mcybyk]

My tank has been set up now for about 6 months. I am running a Rena XP2 filter and a Emperor 400 HOB. Water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates, 8.0 ph, water temp of 78 degrees with 2 40-50%water changes each week (every Wed. and Sun.). I am feeding the fish New Life Cichlid pellets and HBH vegi flakes once per day.

I have been dealing with diatoms for approx. the last 3-4 months and they will not go away. I did add a Phos-Zorb pack to my Rena a little over a week ago, but it does not appear to have made a difference. Do I need to maintain more patience to allow the diatoms to go away on their own, or is their anything else that I can try, short of medicating the tank (something I do not want to do)?

[67chevelle]

I have used ROWA phos with some success.I use it in a fluidized bed reactor that I built myself.If this is something you are interested in,PM and I can send you some pics and info on how to build one.Or you can always just buy one too.

[kay-bee]

How long are your tank lights on daily?

[mcybyk]

Sorry Kay-bee, I meant to include that info - about 6 hours per day. The light is from a 17W bulb. Is this too much time on or too much wattage?

[Tommy Gun]

Hey mcybyk - sorry to hear about your troubles.

I apologize if you have posted this information somewhere else but someone may be able to help you better if they knew a few more details about your situation. For example:


How long has your tank been set up?

Has this been a problem since you started?

What type of substrate are you using?
Is your tank near any source of natural light?
Do you test for phosphates and if so, what are the results?
Does it seem as though the diatoms thrive in specific areas?
Are you sure this is a diatom problem and not a cyanobacteria? (Sorry if I am insulting your intelligence but I know a few people who have made this mistake)
While I realize that most of us can simply 'wait it out' and diatom problems tend to work themselves out but there is no guarantee that the problem cannot or will not persist. A lot of times, adjusting filters or creating more water movement is enough but you may also want or need to pick up a silicate test kit so you can see if that is a problem and if so, find the source.

[excuzzzeme]

I added a phosphate absorber pad and ditched the carbon and mine cleared up and hasn't come back unless I overfeed.

[mcybyk]

Tommy Gun -

1. Tank has been setup for about 6 months and the problem started 3-4 months ago.
2. Gravel substrate
3. The tank does not get any sunlight, only light from the tank light
4. Have not tested for phosphates
5. The growth is on pretty much on all the rocks, fake plants and decor
6. I have assumed it is a diatom problem since it does wipe clean and takes a few days to come back gradually in what is a new tank.

I will try and pick up a silicate kit and post the results. Thanks.

[Tommy Gun]

4. Have not tested for phosphates


Generally, phosphates are often overlooked but usually the 'missing link' with a lot of persistent algae (including diatoms) problems. Like excuzzeme, I've also used some products to help with phosphate control, especially at my last house, and think they work well...but they are somewhat like carbon filter media in that they need to be changed quite often, depending on the amount of phosphate that is available to absorb. Overfeeding is also a big source of phosphates because most, if not all food contains at least a little bit. If you are in a position where you have to make a choice between the phosphate test kit or the silicates test kit, I would go phosphate first. In the meantime, directing some water flow over problematic areas is often discouraging for many types of algae, including diatoms. Sometimes it doesn't even take very much movement...even doing something as simple as placing the filter intake closer to those areas can be enough.



6. I have assumed it is a diatom problem since it does wipe clean and takes a few days to come back gradually in what is a new tank.


Hopefully someone can correct me if I am wrong but I would say that cyanobacteria can also be wiped clean and will come back in days, if not sooner. It is my understanding that the diatoms would be more rusty, maybe golden brown in color while cyanobacteria can also be brown despite its other common name of blue/green algae and IME, is more slime-like and might make the water smell a bit. Like I said, I don't mean to insult your intelligence and I'm sure you are right about it being diatoms but I've seen a few people mistake the ID and in at least two cases, they were also dealing with a tank that had been up and running for six months to a year so I just thought I would bring it up, just in case.

-----------
P.S. I hope you have a great Veteran's Day excuzzeme and thanks for your service!

[mcybyk]

My local Petsmart did not have either test kit, so I will swing by the lfs tomorrow on my way home. Also, don't worry about insulting my intelligence - I don't take to many things personally. Besides, I was unaware of cyanobacteria. After looking at photos of both, I think that it is diatoms. The growth is rusty in color and based on other posts, I have assumed it is diatoms. However, I will adjust the spray bar from the Rena filter to try something different and once I can find a test kit, will post the results. Thanks for the feedback.

[mcybyk]

Well, I picked up a phosphate test kit. My tank is at zero to .25 - it was hard to tell the difference between the two colors. I then tested my tap water after letting some sit for about 5-10 minutes in a bowl. The level was 1.0.

Based on the above, I can only assume that the Phos-Zorb that I added to my Rena (as mentioned also by excuzzeme) is working. I did also redirect some of the water flow. Is there anything else that I am missing that I should do or try? Or do I simply need to have a little more patience and let things run their course?

[Tommy Gun]

Considering your new test results, I think you could wait a little bit to see if the phos-zorb is going to help put an end to this problem. You may also be able to stop or at least slow the progress of your current diatom population by keeping the lights off for a few days. Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is exploring the idea of using a diatom filter. I'm not really sure if UV would help or not because all of my experience with them and what I have read/heard deals with their use on a SW tank.

[UnderWaterDiver]

Hi,

add some of these hero's to your tank and your problem will be gone in just 3-4 days. I have 55G tank, was fully covered with the brown algea, did the same, after 3 day's it looks realy good. I love these little guys nice active fish, cute eyes 2. It's a lovely fish.. So not just for cleaning...
Name is: Otocinclus affinis, also known as OTTO

[mcybyk]

Hi,

add some of these hero's to your tank and your problem will be gone in just 3-4 days. I have 55G tank, was fully covered with the brown algea, did the same, after 3 day's it looks realy good. I love these little guys nice active fish, cute eyes 2. It's a lovely fish.. So not just for cleaning...
Name is: Otocinclus affinis, also known as OTTO

Won't my cichlids ultimately pick these guys aparts and lead to an untimely demise? The tank is stocked all male and I have had to remove fish that could not handle aggression.

[Tommy Gun]

Otos and your cichlids will probably not be a good mix IMO. With all due respect to UnderWaterDiver, there are some good arguments that can be made against stocking an aquarium based upon problems...although a lot of us do, but in many of those cases, the results aren't nearly as ideal as we initially hoped for. IMVHO, the best bet will always be to find the source of the problem and fix it versus finding the bandaid. On the other hand though, otos are fantastic fish and I've kept a lot of them in the past so I would never want to imply that they should always be skipped but instead, keep them because you want to, not because you "need" to.

As always, just my opinion.

TG

[mcybyk]

TG - THat's what I had always been led to believe as well. I'm going to leave the tank lights off for a few days and see what happens. If that does not work, then maybe I will try the otto's. I'll let you know.

Thanks to all for the input.

[AfroCichlid]

Otos and your cichlids will probably not be a good mix IMO. With all due respect to UnderWaterDiver, there are some good arguments that can be made against stocking an aquarium based upon problems...although a lot of us do, but in many of those cases, the results aren't nearly as ideal as we initially hoped for. IMVHO, the best bet will always be to find the source of the problem and fix it versus finding the bandaid. On the other hand though, otos are fantastic fish and I've kept a lot of them in the past so I would never want to imply that they should always be skipped but instead, keep them because you want to, not because you "need" to.

As always, just my opinion.

TG
I agree with this. Otos wouldn't last very long in an African setup, unless you're looking for expensive fish food. They certainly wouldn't be left alone long enough to do any real damage to algae levels.

[mcybyk]

So here I am 2 months later and the diatoms are still around. Even after adding the phos-zorb, my phosphate level never goes away. It drops down to .25, but then works it's way back up to a 1.5-2.0 within 3-4 weeks. TG had suggested a diatom filter - any suggestions on types and where to buy? Or do I try some syno's to see if they would survive by adding 2-3 at once?

[Bre001]

Here is a link to a great article that may help...Doesn't hurt to read it...This guy really knows his stuff and has many other great articles as well. Hope it can help some...

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/04/aquarium-algae.html

[grannylvsfish]

I added a phosphate absorber pad and ditched the carbon and mine cleared up and hasn't come back unless I overfeed.
exactly thats what I did! my tap water has phosphate in it, plus the carbon and I had major problems even after a year. I ditched all filters with carbon, added only the fluffy stuff and no more diatoms! my lights are on 10 hours a day! and at 2 watts per gallon no nothing.

[GREENFEATHER]

What type pf gravel do you have in your tank? I only use aragonite in my tanks to help keep the silicates to a minimum which has caused me issues with diatoms in the past in the high pH environment of an African tank.

[mcybyk]

I am using regular white aquarium gravel. I aslo have been using phos-zorb in my Rena filter, but am running carbon in my other filter. Also, the lighting is a 17W bulb that came with the hood.

I am going to spend some time reading the articles from Bre001 to better educate myself as to the next steps to take - thanks for the link. Like TG stated earlier, I would rather find the problem and solve it. Let the experimentation begin.

[Bre001]

Goodluck...Hope you can get it figured out.

[mcybyk]

So after doing a little reading and talking to my lfs, I decided to add some plants. I added some jave fern, jave moss, onion plant and anubias. My lfs also suggested decreasing my water changes. Because my water out of the tap has 1.0 to 20. in phosphates, my lfs thought that my bi-weekly water changes of 50% were putting phosphates back in quicker than the phos-zorb pad could take them out. It seems to make sense. My water changes were always on Wed and Sun. This past Wed I skipped the water change and tested the water - 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates, 1.0 phosphate, 8.0 ph. When I tested the water tonight, the phosphate was down to .25 but my nitrates were over 20, close to 40.

I do not expect the plants to be able to outperform the diatoms after one week, but with the increased nitrates, am I harming my fish too much at the expense of trying to eliminate the diatoms with fewer water changes? Should I go back to my bi-weekly changes to keep the nitrates down at 10 and just hope that the plants will be able to eventually overcome the diatoms? Any other suggestions?

[grannylvsfish]

I also ditched the charcoal,carbon and went with home made filters... never had a problem again.

[jpappy789]

I honestly would keep scrubbing them off and wait to see if they disappear. I've had them in tanks for up to 8 months.