Dry bulk fertilizers or Seachem?

[Jag1980]

Is buying and mixing your own dry fertilizers to refill the Seachem bottles worth messing with or is it much easier to just buy the bottles of Seachem?

(http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/ (http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/))
I need to buy some fertilizers soon and was wondering which type I should buy?
(http://www.seachem.com/Products/Planted.html)

[msjinkzd]

One of my favorite quotes about ferts from THIS (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131593) old thread:

Quote:
20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ing-guide.html (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-aquatic-fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html)


Quote:
Why would you want to use bulk nutrients. Well here are some numbers.

If you are dosing 60gallons of water with Flourish Potassium you would need 100 ml to get to 20 ppm.

If you are dosing 60 gallons of water with Flourish Phosphorus you would need to dose 48 ml to get to 1 ppm.

If you are dosing 60 gallons of water with Flourish Nitrogen you would need to dose 30 ml to get to 10 ppm.

Flourish Potassium is $6 mail order for 500 ml. So if you dose once a week that bottle will last you 5 weeks. Cost would $1.25 a week to dose potassium.

Flourish Phosphorus is $7.50 mail order for 500 ml. So if you dose once a week that bottle would last you 10 weeks. Cost would be 75¢ a week to dose Phosphorus.

Seachem Nitrogen is $7.50 mail order for 500 ml. So if you dose once a week that bottle will last you 16 weeks. Cost would be 47¢ a week to dose nitrates.

Total cost for one dose a week with Seachem $~2.75. Note there is no shipping factored in here and there are some rounding errors.

To dose the same tank with bulk nutrients.

Nitrates 2¢ a dose.
Phosphates .2¢ a dose. Note that is 5 doses for a penny.
Potassium 4¢ a dose.

Total cost for one dose a week with dry nutrients 6.2¢

Seachem products cost 44X as much per week.

Note these prices do not include shipping charges and there are some rounding errors.

So that pretty much settles that one.
http://www.rexgrigg.com/ferts.htm (http://www.rexgrigg.com/ferts.htm)

[marl_nyc]

:iagree: Can't argue about that...... The numbers don't lie. Cheaper and easier in the long run.

[Hurley]

Go the dry fert route, especially if your tank is larger then 20gallons and it is more then a low tech planted tank. IMO, don't bother mixing up liquid fertilzers from the dry ferts; just put the dry fertilzers directly into the tank.

[irishspy]

I use Seachem for my small tank, but, when I (finally) get a larger one going, I'll be switching to dry ferts.

[jpappy789]

If you are even considering going the dry fert route I see no reason not too. It's the easiest and most economical way to dose ferts.

[Fordtrannyman]

Dry is the way to go.
My source water is tap water, which is fed through an underground river.
With that comes some limitations on the species I can keep, but it also has a considerable amount of nutrients that are available to plants.
If you use tap water also. Check your local water districts web site for a recent water quality report before purchasing dry ferts. You may only the essentials.
KN03, KH2P04, K2S04, Plantex CSM+B or Iron Chelate. Being in Washington you may need a GH booster. You can get Magnesium (MgSO4) from Epson Salt. If additional Calcium is need, a piece of cuttlebone in the tank is all I need. Or you could get Calcium Sulfate (CaSO4).

I personally don't like dosing dry. I find it much easier and efficient to dilute the chemicals in DI water using 250ml or 500ml Rubbermaid bottles and dosing with a large syringe. I mix/dilute them so that 1ml of that nutrient doses 1mg/l per 10gal.

[Mgamer20o0]

thats a great idea the people who dont want to do dry ferts can always make their own liquid.

[Jag1980]

One of my favorite quotes about ferts from THIS (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131593) old thread:

Quote:
20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ing-guide.html (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-aquatic-fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html)


Quote:
Why would you want to use bulk nutrients. Well here are some numbers.

If you are dosing 60gallons of water with Flourish Potassium you would need 100 ml to get to 20 ppm.

If you are dosing 60 gallons of water with Flourish Phosphorus you would need to dose 48 ml to get to 1 ppm.

If you are dosing 60 gallons of water with Flourish Nitrogen you would need to dose 30 ml to get to 10 ppm.

Flourish Potassium is $6 mail order for 500 ml. So if you dose once a week that bottle will last you 5 weeks. Cost would $1.25 a week to dose potassium.

Flourish Phosphorus is $7.50 mail order for 500 ml. So if you dose once a week that bottle would last you 10 weeks. Cost would be 75¢ a week to dose Phosphorus.

Seachem Nitrogen is $7.50 mail order for 500 ml. So if you dose once a week that bottle will last you 16 weeks. Cost would be 47¢ a week to dose nitrates.

Total cost for one dose a week with Seachem $~2.75. Note there is no shipping factored in here and there are some rounding errors.

To dose the same tank with bulk nutrients.

Nitrates 2¢ a dose.
Phosphates .2¢ a dose. Note that is 5 doses for a penny.
Potassium 4¢ a dose.

Total cost for one dose a week with dry nutrients 6.2¢

Seachem products cost 44X as much per week.

Note these prices do not include shipping charges and there are some rounding errors.

So that pretty much settles that one.
http://www.rexgrigg.com/ferts.htm (http://www.rexgrigg.com/ferts.htm)


Thank you :thm:

[saram521]

I personally don't like dosing dry. I find it much easier and efficient to dilute the chemicals in DI water using 250ml or 500ml Rubbermaid bottles and dosing with a large syringe. I mix/dilute them so that 1ml of that nutrient doses 1mg/l per 10gal.

Sorry but what is DI water?

[rich311k]

DI is distilled water. I mix my ferts in plain old tap. Don't really know if it makes a difference or not.

[Star_Rider]

DI is actually deionized

[jpappy789]

DI is distilled water. I mix my ferts in plain old tap. Don't really know if it makes a difference or not.

If your tap has some trace nutrients it might make a difference in dosing...but it depends on the levels in your tap and how picky you are ;)

[Riiz]

One reason you dont premix dry ferts in tap water, is that if your tap is loaded with minerals, you wont get all the fertilizer to dissolve. Or the Iron in your micro-nutrient mix with precipitate out of solution when it reacts with phosphate and then becomes unusable to plants.

[Jag1980]

How fast does it take for dry ferts to dissolve in the aquarium?
Will it go to the bottom or will it dissolve before it reaches the bottom?

[Riiz]

When I dose dry I try to drop it in a filter outlet but it still makes it to the bottom, but completely dissolves in the aquarium within 20seconds after that.

[saram521]

I personally don't like dosing dry. I find it much easier and efficient to dilute the chemicals in DI water using 250ml or 500ml Rubbermaid bottles and dosing with a large syringe. I mix/dilute them so that 1ml of that nutrient doses 1mg/l per 10gal.

Hope I'm not derailing this thread too much, but what are some cons to adding ferts dry? I've read in other posts where people mention mixing dry ferts to make a liquid solution.

[rich311k]

DI is actually deionized

Thanks for the catch. Just curious since all the tap water stuff is in the tank already what difference if there is a little in the mix bottle? I have never had any trouble getting the material to dissolve.

[Spewn]

Hope I'm not derailing this thread too much, but what are some cons to adding ferts dry? I've read in other posts where people mention mixing dry ferts to make a liquid solution.


Measuring out a dose for your aquarium from dry can be difficult, especially if your aquarium is not very large. This is because you need such a tiny amount of the dry product, some of the smaller quantities you need would be hard to measure without a very accurate scale or something. If you mix a reference solution you can measure out a lot more, and mix up several times as much as you would need to dose your aquarium with once. Basic instructions for making a solution like that were posted above me in this thread I believe.

Even if you don't want to go that route, you can still mix the dry ferts with water in a cup before putting them in your aquarium to aid with their distribution.

[oblongshrimp]

I would mix the ingredents dry and put them in old perscription bottles. Then when I need to dose I just grab out the bottle and dump the whole thing in. Takes a while to mix up a bunch but way easier to dose. My fish always try to eat the stuff but it doesn't seem to do anything to them (or my shrimp)

If you want something easier then dry dosing I would suggest trying pfertz (http://pfertz.com/). They just came out with refill bottles and before that they doubled their concentration. Of course dry ferts are cheaper but pfertz is a good alternative to seachem.

[plantbrain]

Dry= tanks from about 20 gallon on up.
Liquid if that's easier for you etc, liquids are messy to dose, so if you go that route, use good methods like the squeeze and fill bottle dispensers.

Note, those are not that accurate either.

The level 1/4 teaspoon(5mls by volume) is about 10milligrams off if you run an average of 10 fillings.

Not much nor that bad of accuracy.
The larger the tank, the less of an accuracy issue it becomes.
Also, you can make more accurate liquids by making them 10-100X larger, you gain a significant digit each time you got up 10X.

Still, for all the hot air given off over the "need" for accurate dosing, plant, and aquariums are very forgiving there, then many of the same folks claiming the need also seem to overlook the need for good test methods and calibration.

There's no difference between say 1.6 ppm of PO4 and 2.0ppm in your dosing routine. Likewise, no difference between say 20 and 24ppm of NO3, or 5mls vs 4.8 mls in the trace additions. Some seem toi imply there is, but I'd challenge anyone to show it and show that it is inddeed significant without other factors involved. I have almost a certain doubt I could not show it.

As long as your general target is decent, then dosing accuracy is really not an issue/critical etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[oblongshrimp]

I completely agree tom....thats why I love EI dosing so much :)

[solution7]

Anyone have any ideas for good sources to purchase dry ferts? I have been spending way too much $$ on seachem 2 litre bottles of ferts... 64$ for excell 2 litre bottle... Yeah I am a Noob to the whole planted tank thing, I love it!! Dosing with my own ferts rather than buying seachem stuff sounds really smart.. Where do you all buy your chemical ferts at?

[Riiz]

www.aquariumfertilizer.com

I've bought all my dry ferts from them. They have a fast turnaround and I never wait more than 2-3days, excluding Sunday.

[jmhart]

www.aquariumfertilizer.com (http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com)

I've bought all my dry ferts from them. They have a fast turnaround and I never wait more than 2-3days, excluding Sunday.


+1

Twice I've ordered on Sunday night and received ferts on Tuesday. (to be fair, they are shipped out of Napa and I live an hour away, but still).

[Jag1980]

Here's a image of my order from Aquariumfertilizers.com:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/Picturesfrom2006/CIMG3388.jpg

[luckydud13]

Those are the ones that are like 3 bucks a peice right?

I have a question. What should I order if I want my plants to grow well? I dont know all the potash phosphate names and such, but what should i by?

[jpappy789]

CSM+B Plantex (trace)
Mono potassium phosphate (KH2PO4)
Potassium nitrate (KNO3)
Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)