View Full Version : Native fish (to USA)--- largemouth, hogchokers, perch, etc...
Been collecting natives here lately. So far I've managed to collect baby black bullheads (catfish), a handful of hogchokers (little flatfish, like a tiny flounder), several types of perch, and a small largemouth bass. (Note that I'm aware of gamefish laws, lol, not doing anything illegal!)
I'm particularly interested in info of anyone keeping yellow perch (perca sp.), hogchokers, and black bullheads. The other fish I have are brainlessly easy to keep (hardy as convicts, hungrier than oscars).
Thank'yuns!
Matt
OrionGirl
10-21-2003, 1:54 PM
Other than to know where to fish for them and that they are tasty? ;)
Haven't seen you around lately--how's it going?
Lol, you weren't supposed to respond yet! I tried posting the other day and no luck, something stopped me in the network, so I typed up a dummy and edited it when it came up good.
Been studying in school way too much. This semester I'm taking (among other things) New Testament Greek which is blowing me out of the water. But I love the stuff!
Anyhow, the perch, bass, and bullheads are all tasty when big enough to eat, but wouldn't recommend eating your pets.
LMOUTHBASS
10-21-2003, 2:04 PM
I am huge fan of native fish - howver have never dreampt of keeping them because i'm guessing they wil require enormous tanks - your largemouth will grow quick! but they are beautiful fish! I wonder what would happen if say some sunfish,perch or bass -were kept with cichlids - i think our natives would easily hold their own! i know eventually your bass will start sucking everything smaller than him down! but what do you guys think are tougher?
OrionGirl
10-21-2003, 2:06 PM
Sorry--just like me to step on someone's toes. ;)
I actually do know a number of people who have yellow perch in stock tanks. They keep the algae and insect larvae from getting out of hand, handle the warmer temps, and grow like gang busters. During the winter, they bring the fish in and keep them in a cool tank in the basement, feeding earthworms and shredded lettuce.
For the black bullheads, my boss used to keep them. He would collect insects from local streams to feed them, and had some spawning live bearers in the tank that contributed to the food supply as well. They need lots of water flow to really thrive in an aquarium, apparently.
Classical Greek is a fun language. Much better than Latin, IMB. Too bad there's not more people around that are fluent.
OrionGirl
10-21-2003, 2:16 PM
There are areas where non-native cichlids have been introduced and survived. Florida, most notably, lists some of these as game fish and encourages taking them. In other areas, it's more of a fluke, but the cichlids have survived. I know the Jack Dempseys are listed as present for several Wyoming waters, but am not aware of any studies on impacts.
For sheer aggression, blue gills and pumpkin seeds get my vote. Not the rapacious predator that a walleye or bass may be, but these little buggers are nasty tempered, and will attack anything that invades their turf. I've seen them chasing 2-foot carp away from their chosen plot--the poor carp had no clue what it'd stumbled into.
Hey, how come the user CP section won't give me the "yes" option on "use avatar". I'm wanting to use this one. http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/images/ich150.gif
Yes, the largemouth is growing faster than ever imagined. I live near two huge fishing meccas (Lake Marion, Lake Moultrie, and a dozen surrounding rivers) so finding a baitshop with a 150+ gallon tank ready for an oversized bass is not a problem. This one is shaped almost like an eggplant it's so fat. Loves cut shrimp.
So far my yellow perch will only occasionally eat. He NEVER overeats, and I never actually see him eat. But I know he does, he's grown a tad the past three months I've had him.
OrionGirl
10-21-2003, 2:46 PM
We're in a trial period for using avatars, and currently users must have at least 50 posts to select one. You can contact Reefscape, and he should be able to restore your post count to it's previous level, if you recall what it was prior to the shift to the new software.
Yellow perch are schoolers--a single specimen may feel be stressed. They are carnivorous as young, and piscivores as larger specimen. See if you can track down some aqyatic insects, or small minnows to feed it. By itself, it likely won't compete against the more aggressive bass. Adding 2-3 more might help out, if there's room in the tank.
I can prolly get a few more to put with them, but this one is about 8" long. I beleive the older they get, the more loner they are. Next time I happen onto a few of them, I'll hang on to them. They heal rapidly from hook wounds.
Bingo on the aggression of bluegills and pun'kins. They don't take "no" for an answer. I'm sure that bluegills are the only reason oscars and other cichlasomines haven't wrecked Florida. Well, that, and the fact that I've heard that oscars have become a tasty tradition now.
Captain Hook
10-22-2003, 3:40 PM
As far as I know perch are schooling fish no matter their age. You keep the largemouth and perch together? I thought the bass would be a natural predator of the perch but I guess yours is not big enough to eat the other. I don't know how fast they will grow but largemouth will get very big. I haven't heard of many people keeping native fish but the concept is very interesting.
Most of the time I hear of people keeping bass, trout, perch, catfish, bullheads, etc. in ponds but not often in aquariums because they need so much room.
LMOUTHBASS
10-23-2003, 10:09 AM
only prey on perch normally when the perch are juvenille - but largemouth will try to swallow anything they can fit in their mouths when hungry! including snakes,eels,frogs i've even heard of two adults trying to swallow each other when they have territory disputes - this guy found a whole grown largemouth hanging half way out of the others mouth!!!
tricksterpup
10-23-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Captain Hook
I haven't heard of many people keeping native fish but the concept is very interesting.
Most of the time I hear of people keeping bass, trout, perch, catfish, bullheads, etc. in ponds but not often in aquariums because they need so much room.
There are many more types of Native fish to keep for the tanks besides these huge tank busters.
These are some of my personal favorites. The biggest one is the golden shiner at about a foot in length. But these guys can be purchased and found online. But with all the different shiners, darters, minnows, and various other types of fish found in the USA, you can never get bored with Natives.
Elassoma okeefenokee (Pygmy sunfish)
Heterandria Formosa (least killiefish)
Jordanella floridae (flag fish)
Lucania goodie (bluefin Killie)
Gambusia affinis affinis or holbrooki (western and eastern mosquito fish
Fundulus chrysotus (golden topminnow).
Fundulus lineolatus (Lined Topminnow)
Notemigonus crysoleucas (Golden Shiner)
Pteronotropis hypselopterus (sailfin Shiner)
Poecilia latipinna Sail Fin Molly
Leptolucania ommata Pygmy Killie
The most popular natives are the flag fish, and the sailfin molly. Incredible fish, give them a try. My personal favorite is Heterandria Formosa , incredible little guy.
try either sites: http://www.aquaculturestore.com/fwverts.html
but for info...
http://www.nativefish.org/Articles/
and http://www.nativefish.org/
OrionGirl
10-23-2003, 12:22 PM
Also, http://www.nanfa.org/ is a great resource.
Always verify that it is legal to collect, transport and keep wildlife in an aquarium in your state. States have various regulations governing this, and what is legal in one state may not be legal elsewhere. Your local Game & Fish, Department of Natural Resources, whoever manages fish and wildlife in your area, will be able to help you out.
Originally posted by OrionGirl
I know the Jack Dempseys are listed as present for several Wyoming waters, but am not aware of any studies on impacts.
Just out of curiousity, do you know when the last Dempsy was spotted? We've got Mexican tetras
Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus listed in Oklahoma waters, but I don't think they've been spotted in 20 years.
I like the sunfish myself. I keep some in a 55g. I also have a tank with Gambusia holbrooki and a tank of Gambusia affinis along with some other small natives (minnows, killies and an orange throat darter).
Captain Hook
10-23-2003, 5:21 PM
I once thought about keeping native freshwater fish many years ago and haven't thought about it since. I think in the distant future if I ever have the time and money I would like to set up some kind of tank like this.
If anyone who has sunfish, bass or other native tanks I would love to see some pics of them. It would be really interesting to see.
I live in Canada so the laws may be very different than in the US, but I was wondering in general what am I allowed to do? If I catch a fish in a lake am I allowed to bring it home and put it in an aquarium? Would I also be allowed to take a bunch of plants from the same lake to put in the tank?
It's different from State to State down here. It might be similar there. In Oklahoma, you have to have a fishing license and the fish has to be legal to take (size/number). I've heard that in California (where I grew up) it's illegal to transport native species. I don't know how true that is though since I've never verified it through the wildlife department.
thekrib
10-23-2003, 8:20 PM
you guys must never have kept a green sunfish before, the key word there is A. i have about a 6 incher, he nearly killed an 8 inch pleco in 2 days, he ate a 3 inch swordtale, and a 3 inch CAE, and 4 3-4 inch crawdads, he is a mean *** fish. he is also my favorite fish, more personality than an oscar, and smarter than any fish i've ever seen. he watches TV, whenever the TV is on he is right in the same spot in his tank, with his fins flared, watching intently, he seems very curious.
i have trained him to jump fully out of the water for mealworms and earthworms.
i honestly dont know if its legal to have him, but i saved him from an evaporating puddle, and i fear to release him as he would be dinner in minutes, he would be SOOO easy to catch after being trained that humans=food.
OrionGirl
10-24-2003, 8:34 AM
Re: Jack Dempseys--one of the hatchery superintendents told me had seen the JD's earlier this summer as he was planting trout in a nearby waterway. The waters that have these (as well as mollies/platies--they are sure which they are and may be a hybrid--and a few other tropicals) are warm water springs that never get below about 65F. Few of the native species outside dace and minnow will do well in these waters, so the imports thrive.
Regarding laws: there is not a 'general' rule for collecting fish. Fish are regulated by the states, rather than the feds, so it varies by location. In Wyoming, collection and transport of live fish can only be done with the Departments authorization and appropriate permits. In California, there's quite a jumble of regulations based on FW and SW, as well as species--checking with the Department would be the only sure way to verify legality.
tricksterpup
10-24-2003, 10:59 AM
Here is a silly question, Does one need a permit to catch the exotics in Wyoming?
jim
OrionGirl
10-24-2003, 11:24 AM
Not for the JD and other released tropicals. They are not classed as game fish and those are the only ones we restrict capture and transport on. Stocking them into a water way would be illegal, no matter what the source.
mrkeeg
10-25-2003, 4:51 AM
What about sticklebacks?
Anyone try keeping them? THey should be an appropriate size for the aquarium..
Keegan
MelJr
10-25-2003, 11:27 AM
I have a tank with minnows native to this area. I have several Cyprinella lutrensis, which I have read are sold in pet stores as rainbow dace. I have four Fundulus-zebrinus which are known as plains killifish. I also have 4 Phenacobius mirabilis or suckermouth minnows. They make a nice aquarium as they are all very active fish and get along very well with each other. I have never added pics here but I am going to try.