New Emperor 400....Noisy

[BlueUltra2]

I just set up my new Emperor 400 and it's loud. I've tried taking it apart many times making sure that the impellor was installed right but it's still loud. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix it or should I call customer service?:confused:

[ewok]

sounds like it has air in it. mine are almost entirely silent.

did you fill it with water when you started it? the first time thru these things need to be primed somewhat, after that they should be fine tho. if it's full of water... is there water running down both sides? is there water coming out of both spraybars? the 4 places for water exit are the 2 spraybars and the 2 chutes down into the tank, they mix together somewhat but you should still be able to tell if they are working........

plug it in, dump about 2 quarts of water in it from the fishtank, if that doesn't quiet it, then look for problems with it. personally, if it was new and properly primed and still noisy i would call the company and/or send it back.

ooooooooooooo, almost forgot, open the flow control to "full open", if it isn't and it is closed, that will make it noisy too. after it runs on full for awhile, then you can turn it down a notch or two, but not all the way. pull the little grey thing all the way up i seem to remember............... i really don't mess with mine tho, just leave them wide open.

[wetmanNY]

Too many pieces, and none of them "snap" or "pop" into place, so you know that they're seated. Too many trips back and forth disassembling and reassembling to try to keep it from cavitating like that.

Fundamentally not a good clean design...

I trashed mine finally.

[BlueUltra2]

I filled it with water before I plugged it in. And water is coming from all four areas. Should I empty it again and try starting over? I might try to call Big Al's this mornong and talk to them about it.

[ewok]

call them.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Yea, I would call them, it can't hurt.

[Ledslnger]

I agree with wetman....design kinda sucks! Go AquaClear. The only thing you can do to stop the noise is tear it down completely and put it back together. Sometimes you have to do it several times. You get to hate the **** POS! Good luck!

[morleyz]

I'm currently in the process of ditching my emp 400's. Even after you get the motor noise taken care of...the amount of water noise they generate will drive you nuts...so it's a lose-lose situation. I know that doesn't help you any, but I just wanted to confirm what everyone else was saying.

[fishbrain]

I love my emp.The only time I got a motor noise is when it needed to be cleaned ,then the noise went away. To help with the water noise ,just keep tank as full as possible,and adjust the spray bars on the bio-wheels,all in all my emps. are very quiet .
You might have a defective filter on your hands.

[tuthelimit]

I have a pair of Emperor 400s and I can't stand the noise. I called Marineland and they sent me new parts. I still haven't put them in, seems like a HUGE pain.

I have ACs on most of my other tanks. If I could do it over again, I would have skipped the EMP and gone for the AC 500s.

GL
Atleast call Marineland, they are easy to deal with!

ttl

[Ledslnger]

Wow......what are the odds that I got 3 crappy Emporers and no good ones????? Pretty long odds IMO. They are just not of the same quality as the ACs IME and IMO.

[BlueUltra2]

I took it apart earlier today and it was quiet for a little bit but now it's noisy again. I think it's the intake tube that rattles in the housing making the noise. I can push on it and it's quiet but when I let up it starts again. I wounder if I could put some type of o-ring on it to make that noise stop. Who knows?....not me! Well thanks for the advice, I think that I mat get rid of my brand new, 2 day old filter and buy a AC 500.

[rus]

all of the ac that i have had broke or cracked. my 400's and 280 work great. best filter on the market imho. i never get any noise from mine but i hear this complaint a lot

[JamisonBWolsh]

I have 2 emperers within 5 feet of my bed (400,280). VERY quiet!

BTW: Emperors are 100 percent BETTER than AC!

MUCH BETTER BIO filtration....

[tuthelimit]

I cracked one AC. That did make me mad. The intake is definatly what is making noise because if I depress it with my hand, it gets quiet.

The amount of media that the EMP holds... stinks. AC bags allow for so many more options. I choose not to use carbon in my tanks and removing it from the EMP is a pain. AC sponges are so much easier to clean!!

ttl

[joe schmoe]

Mine is better...no mine is better :D . Your media sucks...my biowheels rule and so on and so forth. :p

Fiddle around with the intake tube. Lift it up just a little...but don't push it back down too hard...or the rattling will start again. Keep messing with the intake tube until you figure out what works. It's too bad we have to cope with these things, but one you figure out how to fix it...it's no trouble at all.

Here's the strange thing I've found with the 400 I recently purchased. When I try to decrese the flow to minimum, the unit starts sucking air in from somewhere. Air gets down into the impeller and even makes it's way into the spraybars. I think the water level on the inside gets too low. It makes sense...but I never had that problem with other 400 units I've owned. The point is...it get's noisy and would probably overheat if I left it on minimun. Solution - raise the flow-control lever one notch above minumun....works good enough.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Eithor way, the Emperor 400 and the Aquaclear both rate as the best POwerfilters. Many people say one is better then the other, but that is a personal preference I guess? I only use the emperor 400 as a mechanical and a bio filter and it DOES a great job for that. For chemical, AC might be slightly ahead. However for BIO emperor 400 rule the market as a powerfilter.

[O-man21]

I use ony emps for all my tanks. I got 3 (2 400s and a 280) on my 100 gallon. When I first got them, I filled them with water all the way then plugged them in. They were COMPLETLY silent! I love my emps and would never change anything with them. IMO, you might want to take the intake tube off, then clean the part that goes near the impeller, and then put it on again. It is probsbly a defect in the connection or being improperly connected (no offence:D )

Just to say. I had a AC once, it stunk and made noise and never did anything good. I threw it away, and when it hit the bottom of the trash can, it cracked :D .

[JacksontoKobe]

I have both AC's and Emperor's and yes the emperors seem to make more noise than the AC's I have had little to no problems with either both seem to filter my tanks just fine too.

[Swordfish]

I also had a very noisey emperor 400. Never could figure out why. I believe the manual says it may take 24 hours to quiet down the first time but six months later, even louder.
Then one day i decided to fill up the tank more than usual and cover the black overhanging parts and it quieted right now so there was only some water dripping noise.
That seemed to only be a temporary solution as a week later it was back to its old chainsaw noise past.
I eventually ditched it and went with an AC500.

[rockhead44]

would give them a call.They have been great with me in the past.I had to call them and they took care of me!great customer service.So make the call.Could be a mess up impeller.Good luck and hope you get it straightened out.Mine are pretty Quiet

[NJ Devils Fan]

Lets not start another filter debate.

[Swordfish]

....too late

I called the emperor people and talked to a marineland rep. in person and both said it was an impeller problem but since i let it go for 6 months it was damaged and wore down something or other so it couldn't be fixed. And oddly enough they said they don't sell the replacement part that i needed....

[JamisonBWolsh]

Emperor and Aquaclear Powerfilters Both have their own positives and Negatives EACH. We all know they both are the tops in powerfilters. I believe its a personal choice on which one you want. They both are #1! Just like McDonalds and Burger King.. which is best? Cant answer that.. They do the same thing. Kill you with a heart attack, then your family can sue them. Or you can just get fat and sue them saying its their fault because they have .99 cents big macs!

[JamisonBWolsh]

Swordfish....Does Big als sell the impeller? Petwarehouse has it.

Item # Description Price Qty Add
CD-900173 Emperor Cartridge

$9.79
Quantity Discount Available:
3 or more: $8.79


CD-118320 Intake Strainer

$2.59


CD-118333 Emperor 400 Impeller

$11.29


CD-118346 Emperor 280 Impeller

$10.79


CD-118359 Bio-Wheel Assembly

$6.49


CD-118385 Media Container

$4.99

[slipknottin]

personally i like the penguins better than the emperors...

less parts means less breaking.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Are you serious?!?!?!?!? PENGUINS? Come on now. Emperors are the more expensive upgrade from penguins.

[slipknottin]

and are better at........ :confused:

$15 more for 70 more GPH?

[JamisonBWolsh]

Bigger biowheel, more flow rate (400 has 2 biowheels). Better quiilty materials in its construction. Like comparing a Honda Civic with a BMW. Sure Civic will run, but the ride in a BMW is so MUCH BETTER!

[slipknottin]

heh......... penguin 330s have two biowheels also.

There made of the same thing, by the same company. Emperors have more parts, hence more cost, and more chance of breaking.

[JamisonBWolsh]

yea...2 biowheels HALF the size of emperors and plastic that is FLIMSY compared to that of the emporer series.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Besides, How many moving parts? a Biowheel, and the Magnetically driven impeller. Thats it....

[slipknottin]

both filters are made of the same thickness ABS.


The Emperor systems feature not one pump (as in ordinary power filters), but two separate water pumps

not to mention all the adjustable do-dads and spray bars.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Dude,

Why are you arguing? The discussions was Emperors and AC.. not penguins. If penguins is the HOLY grail made by Marineland, why are they CHEAPER? I would think if they are BETTER, they would be more expensive. I never had one problem with my emperors "Do-dads". I have both a 400 and a 280. If you compared them with the penguin visually, then you would know what im talking about.

BUT, hey, if you enjoy driving a Honda, have a nice drive. I will just be passing you in my BMW. ( a comparison between a penguin and an emporer)

[Anton Wernher]

is there a difference in energy use between the two lines?

[slipknottin]

Jameson- you brought up the argument. But im sorry, I should have known that because something is more expensive its fundimentally better. Sorry for my lack of knowledge. Besides, couldnt you get a Camaro for 20K and pass any BMW?


the emperor 400 uses 0.16A of current, the penguin 330 uses 0.17A of current. so there pretty much identical... You want the power usage of the AC filters?

[Anton Wernher]

No thanks... I use ACs:)

[joe schmoe]

the emperor 400 uses 0.16A of current, the penguin 330 uses 0.17A of current. so there pretty much identical... You want the power usage of the AC filters?

Is there any way to convert that to watts?? Here's an idea - has someone compiled a list of aqarium accesory energy usage?? I try to conserve so it would be great to know.

[slipknottin]

its impossible without using some expensive equipment...

:eek:

Id love to find this out for you however, ill look around and see what i can come up with.

[Tiger15]

I am with slipknottin and prefer Penquen over Emperor. Both Penquen 330 and Emperor run on the same size motor of 18 watt, which is twice the power usage as Whisper 3 or AC 300. But the extra power is worth it because Penquen pump never get stuck and always self start; not so with Whisper or AC. The reason I like Penquen better than Emperor is that the design is simpler and there are less parts to clean and break. The spray bar in Emperor is useless to me because I don't use even Penquen's biowheels. The biowheels create back water pressure and cause early bypass. I had filters before without biowheels and I don't see why I need them now.

[slipknottin]

hey Tiger, do you know what year they added the biowheels to the filters?

I have a couple older ones that are identical to the newer 330s except theyre blue in color and dont have bio-wheels.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Well... Thats one point of the Biowheels. Thats what makes marinelands Powerfilter. WITHOUT the Biowheels, the aquaclears are BETTER. The Biowheels are the point of these filter BTW

[Anton Wernher]

would 110v * .17a not work?

[slipknottin]

i dont think that would work with AC voltage as their vectors. We were trying to do that with ballasts and water pumps, but it didnt work right.

[morleyz]

Holy Cripes...I walk away for a couple of hours and lookie what happens.

Jameson...you're welcome to come by and pick up my Emp 400's when I'm done with them in a month or so. Do you know what I really hate about the emporers? (Do you care should be the real question). Why did they have to have soooo many darn nooks and crannies?? The ACs are so nice and smooth, it's easy to keep them clean and well maintained.

EDIT: Slip...I'm pretty sure wattage = V * A regardless of AC vs. DC.

[JamisonBWolsh]

I never touch mine. Just clean the spraybars (easy) and take care of the pads. Once a year, I clean out the whole filter. EASY. Can you mail me your emperor 400?

BTW, what happened to your web cam?

[slipknottin]

heres some guy on RC going off about it... lol


Originally posted by piercho
This is a major irritation for me, so I just HAVE to vent.

In AC, V X A = VA (volt-amps), not watts. V X A X PF = W. AC amps and volts are vector quantities and their magnitudes only multiply directly if they are in perfect phase. The value used to get from VA to W is PF, or power factor.

A common example: the HX-NPF 250W H37 ballast recommended in the link "MH for less than $100", and sold by PFO in their 250WEYE ballast. Described on this Advance data sheet: http://www.advancetransformer.com/ecom_PDFS/out/9071568311.pdf

The ballast draws 285W, so it's amp draw is (by your formula) 2.4A, right? Not correct. Check out the power factor on the data sheet. 0.5. The worst case (running) amp draw is 285/(.5 X 120V) =4.75A. Typical running amps is 4.20, according to the data sheet. For this particular ballast circuit, starting amps can be even worse at 6.85A.

Lets say I was budgeting a 15A house electrical circuit. If I took the 2.4A value, I'd believe I could fit 6 of these ballasts on a single circuit. I reality, if I was starting the ballasts off of the same timer, I could only fit 2. For amp budgeting purposes, in this case, A=W/V is off by 185%.

Cap and coil (CWA) magnetic ballasts have a PF of .9, and some electronic ballasts have a PF approaching unity. So, in those cases, using VA for W does not produce such large errors. But there is still an error. Most ballasts have a max amp draw printed on them, and that is the value that should be used to calculate amp draw.

There are devices that draw LOTS more current than the watts that they consume reveal. IMO, these HX-NPF ballasts are probably the worst of them for the devices that are in typical use for the reef aquarium. Also, you only pay for (as a residential customer) W, not VA, so the V X A = W is wrong there, too.

You've given me a lot of help over the last few months so I am very reluctant to criticize.:) But I've been fighting this issue since I came to the board and putting it in print as fact just makes this erroneous notion harder to correct.

[JamisonBWolsh]

So what does that have to do with Powerfilters?

[slipknottin]

We were talking about how much energy they use, and if you could convert amps to watts

[morleyz]

Slip -
http://www.solar-plus.com/worksheet.htm
http://www.dcacpowerinverters.com/faq.htm#2
http://www.sierrasolar.com/design/createsys.htm

And an endless amount more...I certainly not an electrical engineer, but I just thought I'd support my opinion.

Jameson - Sure...the emps are in the mail. You'll find them with Charlie Brown's valentine from the little red haired girl. The webcam is running again...PC that encodes the video craps out every couple of days if I don't remember to reboot it.

[slipknottin]

yea, i was looking around too, and every site i saw said the same thing...

maybe it just doesnt work with ballasts? :confused:

Or maybe its the margain of error? i think thats what piercho was saying about it being off by 185%

[JamisonBWolsh]

My question...who cares how much power it takes???


So, thats what your tank looks like RIGHT NOW??? HOW many hours do you have the light on?

[morleyz]

Yep...live feed. The lights are usually off by 10pm CST...but I just turn them off when I go to bed. The don't usually get turned on until around 4pm...so it just gets regular daylight during the day.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Do you feed that tank in the morning? If you do, can they find the flakes with the lights off? Thats a good Idea.. running the lights for only a few hours... Is the webcam on during the day? without the lights.. ???

[slipknottin]

some people care about electricity usage because it gets very expensive.

a typical 55 gallon tank with two emperor 400s (or penguin 330s), 40 watts of lighting, and two 100 watt heaters is going to be around $100 a year. (at $.12 a KWH)

[Anton Wernher]

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
My question...who cares how much power it takes???


So, thats what your tank looks like RIGHT NOW??? HOW many hours do you have the light on?

There is something to be said about efficiency (also you can do the this device will pay for itself in this amount of time over this other device thing).

[morleyz]

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Do you feed that tank in the morning? If you do, can they find the flakes with the lights off? Thats a good Idea.. running the lights for only a few hours... Is the webcam on during the day? without the lights.. ???

I usually pop the lights on for 1/2 hour or so while I feed. The webcam is on 24/7 except when it breaks (which is frequently, but I've dedicated my crumbiest hardware to it...so what do you expect).

[JamisonBWolsh]

I really like your live feed. Are you going to get a better webcam for a better quality picture? Would look great on your 120 gallon tank!

[morleyz]

Actually...the PC and my internet connection are the limiting factors on the pic quality. It's running on a 200MHz laptop with 32MB ram.

It is on my 150G tank. It's just a side view so the cam isn't sitting in the middle of my living room.

[Tiger15]

slipknottin, I am going through my old issues of TFH magazine and did not see any biowheels until 1991. So the biowheel has been around for about 11 years. Marineland is still making Penquen without biowheels for sale in Wallmart under different brand name.

As for power usage, here is the list for comparison:

Whisper 3, 300 gph, 9 watt
Whisper 2, 200 gph, 6 watt
AC 500, 420 gph, 14 watt
AC 300, 300 gph, 6 watt
Penquen 330, 330 gph, 110V x .17A = 18 Watt?
Emperor 400, 400 gph, 110V x .17A = 18 watt?

I don't know how to calculate the true wattage for Marineland which does not list it on purpose apparently because its filters use more energy.

[AikidoGuy]

i dont understand what everyone says by the water noise?? i literally have 10 of these things only two of them which are older models make any type of noise so i can understand the motor noise. But, Where is the water noise comming from?? the rest of mine dont make a sound and i have them set on full flow. i rinse off the pads a few times then i replace them and i brush the spray bars once a month with a toothbrush, i never clean out the inside of the filter, ive had some running for 4 years. i dont think ive even ever unplugged them to be honest

[JamisonBWolsh]

Originally posted by Tiger15
As for power usage, here is the list for comparison:

Whisper 3, 300 gph, 9 watt
Whisper 2, 200 gph, 6 watt
AC 500, 420 gph, 14 watt
AC 300, 300 gph, 6 watt
Penquen 330, 330 gph, 110V x .17A = 18 Watt?
Emperor 400, 400 gph, 110V x .17A = 18 watt?



So....between a emporer 400 adn an AC 500 there is a 4 watt difference. for that difference, I wonder how much would you save per year at .12 cents a Killowatt/hour. I could do the math, but I dont know how many watts in a Kilowatt? 1000?

[JSchmidt]

Returning to the original post, if the Emperor is so noisy, it is defective and should be returned for an exchange or refund. Enough of us own quiet Emperors that this loud is clearly not right.

Whether you like its convenience, its longevity, its media, etc. is a separate issue. This filter is not silent, but should not be so loud as to be distracting. Take it back, I say!

It amazes me that individuals can feel so passionate about power filters... now, canister filters arouse deep feelings, I know, but HOB filters?

:p

Jim

[slipknottin]

running a emperor or penguin all year at $.12 a KWH would be $13.14

running an AC all year at $.12 a KWH would be $10.22

a difference of $2.92 a year.

[JamisonBWolsh]

at a savings of 2.92 a year and the AC 500 going for 29.99 it would take 10 years and 2 months to earn its keep. I dont know about you, But I would take the quality of the Emperor over waiting the ten years to earn the diffrence.

[slipknottin]

i dont follow...

wouldnt it be the emperor that has to earn its keep over the AC?

the AC is already cheaper. :confused:

[Tiger15]

slipknottin, your calculation is wrong:

AC500 14/1000*24*365*.12=$14.71

Penquen/Emperor 18/1000*24*365*.12=$18.92

Whisper III 9/1000*24*365*.12=$9.46


All three models have about the same filter cross sectional area and the performance is about the same regardless of the flow rate. Higher flow rate is meaningless unless it comes with more filter capacity.

[slipknottin]

really?

i was using this http://reefcentral.com/calc/tank_elec_calc.htm

[Derringer]

I guess as a new Emperor 400 owner, I can revive this thread because my filter is quite noisy as well!

I have a 280 on my 20g tank its vitually silent, the 400 I have on my 75g tank is very noisy - I took it apart, cleaned and repositioned the propeller - reinstalled it and it was quiet for about 1 minute before it got loud again.

I'm thinking that possibly since the intake is over a bubble bar that its sucking up air - the 280 intake is right of a bubble bar. If thats not it then I might have to get 2(280s) for the 75g and toss the 400.

[galen]

i bought a 280 about 6 weeks ago. at first, it was very noisy and im talking the motor was loud not the splash of water on the lower lip of the filter hood where the bio wheel is. anyway, its quieted down quite a bit since then. now its pretty quiet- not totally silent, but it gives off a gentle low hum. it really reminds me of a refrigerator. i think the first 3 weeks weas the time for the motors to be broken in, cause it got alot less noisy after a period of time, then became next to silent after another period.
i also have an aquaclear 70 running on another tank and it is pretty silent- the hood dont fit right so it rattles alot, making it annoying. it works great- with my set-up that is- theirs is underpowered bio filtration, in my opinion.
i think my emperor 280 is superior though- its got a 3 year warranty, which to me is real plus. the hum doesnt bother me either- its 4 feet from my bed and the hum is barley noticeable, even at night.

[tankboy_taylor]

I run two Emp 280's they dont seem two be to noisy imo