View Full Version : PVC pipe/glue
gatotsu77
12-09-2008, 8:18 PM
Ok, so I've been doing a lot of reading, checking out a lot of photos for ideas, and I believe I've convinced myself that I'd like to convert my 55g to a reef tank. I don't have any plans to be getting into SPS corals, but I might eventually, once I learn more about the tank. At first I plan to just start with a basic structure of live rock, a nice deep aragonite sand bed, and once its cycled a couple soft corals/mushroom corals. As I learn more, I'll venture into LPS and more delicate inhabitants. As far as livestock, I'd ultimately like to have a marine betta, a coral banded shrimp, a pistol shrimp, a yellow watchman goby, a few red-legged hermit crabs if compatible, and perhaps one or two other small fish. (I'm trying to remember what exactly I was looking at the other day... something like fire hawk... something or other. I just remember that it was a rather vibrant red, preferred to hide in holes/caves within the rockwork, and got to be something like 3" max size. I'll post about that once I get home and check out what I was looking at the other day)
So, now that I've gotten that all out in the open, and I am always open to suggestions, here's my question. What type(s) of PVC and glue are reef-safe? I've done a couple quick searches on AC but have come up empty handed. I was thinking about setting up a PVC structure to support a pile of live rock, and give it a bit more of a volumetric appearance, without having it be just solid rock. (hoping to increase hidey holes and the such for critters) While I'm at it, I may as well state that I'm planning to have an 8 x 54w HO T5 fixture with mixed 10,000k and actinic bulbs, 2 koralia 1's and a koralia nano, and likely an AC 30 or something similar on the back for carbon. (I might use my XP2 for this, with no other filter media in it, as it would give me a chance to direct the flow a bit more efficiently)
In all likelihood, I will have some gear up for sale soon, preferably for pick up only. This includes a 130w CF 6700k light, XP3 canister filter, and possibly a few nice chunks of driftwood and plants. (though posting this info on the reef-side of the forum is probably kinda useless... I'll post another thread for all the freshies later :p:)
At any rate, I am open to any suggestions and opinions. I would love to have a marine betta, so if there is anything which would be incompatible in my setup, please give me a heads up and I'll look into alternatives. Thanks. :D
Normal LO-VOC PVC glue you pick up at hardware stores is fine in reef tanks. Color is your preference, I prefer the clear over the blue or grey myself. I have used the stuff from home depot and Ace hardware.
Marine Bettas get BIG. Not a fish I would recommend in a 55. The others sound fine. The Flame Hawkfish is the one red one your thinking of. Here is a picture:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/3001806764_e6aa974574_m.jpg
Why not use the XP3 filter you already have on the marine tank? Just use the trays to put small pieces of live rock on and one tray to use carbon or other media of your choosing.
Those Koralias sound too small for that tank.. I would go with something like 2 #3s and a #2. The #1's and Nanos are only good for tanks 10G and smaller.
That is a great light for that size tank and you will be able to do any coral with that, but ideally if you went SPS corals you really would like to have a sump at that point, but it sounds like that will be a while away which is the norm.. it took me 6 years of slowing learning reefs, going with softies like xenia and mushrooms in the beginning, a year later got into LPS like frogspawns, then it took me 5 more years until I got the right equipment and felt comfortable enough to try SPS corals.
gatotsu77
12-09-2008, 9:00 PM
Just the person I was hoping would chime in. Thanks Ace. :D I actually got the idea from your 75g tank, thinking that setting up the live rock on a lattice of PVC would give it a really nice aesthetic feel. (though mine will not have the functional flow yours does)
I had read that marine bettas only get to be 8" total length.... but if you recommend against it, I'll not pursue one. What would you recommend in its place? I will admit, the Flame Angel is yet another favorite of mine, but I am also aware that on occasion they pick at coral.
That Flame Hawkfish is spot on, the same fish I was observing at the LFS. Fun little guy to watch... would love to see one in my tank. Colors are nice, but I also want fish with personality traits or some peculiar habits. This is part of why I'd love to get a pistol shrimp (preferably tiger pistol) and a yellow watchman goby duo. Come to think of it... I think I saw that in your tank too. :p:
I'm amazed to be hearing that Koralia 2's and 3's would be safe in a 55g tank... I was under the impression that they'd be generating too much water flow for the coral. I understand that I'd want to have enough to keep them happy and not too much to make them not open, or worse, shear them off. What overall level of water flow would you recommend for a 55g tank? I was assuming that 1000gph of total water movement was more than enough... is there even a general guideline as to what would be adequate? (like 15x turnover, 20x, etc.?)
One day I'll build a much larger reef tank... likely something along the lines of 200 gallons, but in a custom shape so as to keep it about 18" deep. (have it be fairly long, and very wide front to back) I'd go acrylic so that I'd have the option of setting up a sump, and probably have something like a 75g sump. By then, I'll be able to afford the MH lights, and all of the really crazy corals I'd like to get. For now, I'll just stick with pumps on my 55g. :) Oh, and do you think the XP3 would be worth using for flow rather than getting a Koralia in its place? I don't remember who it was, but someone mentioned to me that live rock rubble in a canister could lead to trouble. I cannot remember why, or I'd clarify further.
I have seen a few marine bettas in reef tanks and they never seem happy. They stand out because they are so large, but even then, every tank I have seen them in the betta just sits in the back behind the rocks. They always seem very depressed looking to me even though they are great looking fish.
Flame Hawkfish have TONS of personality.. almost as much as a porcupine puffer. Very entertaining fish and they will watch you watching them all day long.. so don't get stuck in a staring contest with them because they will win. :)
Flame Angels are also a good fish, and even if they are coral nippers, it really isn't as much of an issue in beginner/softie tanks. They won't pick on most softies, maybe xenia, but I doubt they will like the taste so even if it does pick initially it will probably stop. I have seen more reef safe Flame angels than I have seen bad ones.. to me, the coral beauty is the one "reef safe" angel that is the most likely to pick at corals.. I say 50/50 chance.. other dwarf angels are less likely to nip. Probably down to 20% chance with a flame angel.
Ya, rethinking the flow.. actually on a 55 I would go with just 1 #3 and 1 #2. Their numbers they state about GPH are over rated. I admit I did the same thing as you in the beginning.. went with the koralias that I thought would work best for me just by reading the specs, then after putting them in my tank come to find out they were not nearly enough flow as I hoped. I had a #3 and a #2 in my 29G tank along with a Mag7 (700GPH) return pump from my sump, this after going with a #1 and #2 initially, thinking that would be enough. A Koralia3 will just barely reach from one end of the tank to another on a 55G.
Here is a pic of my 29G when I had it running, #3 in the top left, #2 is in the bottom right behind the rocks.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2334/2316907503_a17d6f75d4.jpg
gatotsu77
12-09-2008, 9:30 PM
I'd hate to see an unhappy, potentially sulking fish in my tank. I'd also be worried about its overall health. Granted that they are beauty, I'll keep the notion of a marine betta in the same group as keeping a small shark. Probably never going to happen.
I did enjoy watching the Flame Hawkfish at the LFS. I could sit on their couch and watch that tank for hours... and they really didn't have all that many fish in it. What other peculiar fish/inverts might you suggest? Can Flame Hawkfish tolerate members of their species in the same tank? (thinking about going with 2 if they're safe together.)
I would also like to eventually get a Tridacna clam, Likely a Derasa. (though there are several of them I would absolutely love to have) Do you think with the 8x54w HO T5 setup I'd have enough light for one of these creatures? I do know that I could not even consider one until I've had the tank up and running for potentially a year or more, but it is something I'd like to look into for the future.
I've heard some mixed information, how large do Flame Angels get? Is there anything else about their temperament I should be worried about?
Ok, a single Koralia 3 and a single Koralia 2. How could I best configure them to provide optimal flow within the tank, and minimize dead zones? Would the setup be improved at all using two Koralia 2's and a single Koralia 1? Or possibly even three Koralia 2's? (Just tossing ideas out there) How would this scale with the flow of the XP2 and XP3 I have? (if I were to use them, I'm still debating that presently. It might be nice to get them out of the picture)
Your 29g tank was beautiful. I hope I can create a similar effect with my 55g tank. (I'd like to have the front left corner open sand, and gradually have a built up slope of live rock and coral towards the back right corner)
I don't believe flame hawks get along with each other. I am not sure about other hawks though.. may get along with a geometric pygmy hawk.. I have heard the spotted hawk can be a little agressive.
Flame angels get as big as any other dwarf angel, maybe 3" at most. I wouldn't really be worried about adding a flame angel, they are very common and I think one of the top 3 fish I see bought for SW tanks.. #1 being a clownfish, #2 flame angel, and #3 toss up between a yellow watchman goby and a yellow tang. My one gripe about flame angels is their coloring fades over time.. years.. when young that are so bright and vibrant, but I watched my neighbor have one for 5 years and at the end it was almost white and had no black bars on it anymore (I kept telling him he needed to put it back on the grill to get those stripes back as a joke). I guess the same could be said for most fish though.. most fish don't look as good as adults but there are exceptions.
Well, 3 #2s would be great also, give you more ability to tweak the flow, but at some point you will say to yourself there is a line between to much equipment in the tank vs functionality. It may be a little more work tweaking a 2/3 than it is 3 2's but it is one less "black egg" in your tank you have to look at. A decision each person has to weigh out themselves because it is all personal preference.
A clam would do great in that tank.. one thing clams need is calcium and phytoplankton to feed... along with a stable tank. That is something I would wait at least 6 months before adding.. you can add many other corals before then.. especially softies.
gatotsu77
12-09-2008, 10:40 PM
Awesome. :D Just wanted to say thank you for taking so much time to answer my questions. I'll keep reviewing species profiles, talking with the folks at the LFS, and ask opinions of other members on here too... and likely bring back to this thread a list of several other potential inhabitants. If you had to go with a general rule of thumb, assuming large is along the lines of a clown fish, medium more like the Flame Hawk, and small being a Goby, what would be an appropriate stocking level for a 55g tank? I'd rather have it a bit on the under-stocked side myself, and just have a few unique individuals. I plan to have about 40 lbs of live rock set up on a PVC lattice to space it out a little more, and make good use of that surface area. I believe I mentioned earlier I'm planning to go with a 4" aragonite bed, which might be topped by another inch of live sand. (or potentially some LR rubble... still working out ideas, but I want that gradually sloping look and to have an open sand area)
As I think about it, I agree, 3 Koralia's in the tank might look a bit much. I personally don't find equipment in the tank to be as bothersome as some people do.... but I would like it to be nice aesthetically to all eyes viewing it, not just my own. (girlfriend will likely see it a lot, and my family will see it on occasion as well)
Once I get the tank running, stable, and hiccup free for at least a few months, then I'll really start experimenting with calcium doses, to see what kind of regime I'd need for a Tridacna clam. One other silly question about lighting: would I be better served with the 8x54w HO T5, or with 2 150w metal halides? I know the halides produce more heat, and in a medium sized bedroom, that may not be all-too desirable. (I'm also going to have a couple 120mm fans cooling the surface of the water, potentially even rig an 80mm fan to each MH light to keep the overall heat looming above the tank to a minimum) I guess my biggest worries are heat and whether I have enough, or unlikely, too much light.
This will all be a work in progress, and I'll try to keep this thread up-to-date with what's going on. I keep a rather busy schedule, and still have my discus living in my 55g tank, so this will not be an overnight change. I'd expect to have the tank set up and starting its cycle within a month, maybe 6 weeks.
Ace25
12-09-2008, 10:50 PM
Stocking a tank to proper levels is something I am not good at. I know what should be.. but I can't resist cool fish, so I am not the best person to ask that.
On my 29G I had 12 fish.. some big ones like a 12" engineer goby, 5 year old maroon clown, and cherub pygmy angel along with a bunch of other smaller gobies. I had a sump/refugium on that tank, 2+lbs live rock per gallon AND I did 5G a day in water changes just to be able to keep 12 fish in a 29G. I know I have a weakness with fish and since there are times I just can't resist, I have to do the extra maintanence to keep the tank stable. Heck, I am sure you have read, but I still do 50% weekly waterchanges on my new tank.
For years I tried to resist MHs.. even went to 6 T5s on my 29G.. but I have to admit, MH do kick serious butt with coral growth and that shimmer effect really is cool to see. 2 150's would be nice on that tank as well.. but if you went with the 8 T5s you wouldn't have any problems with lighting needs either.. and you can turn off 4 of the 8 bulbs for the first couple months to save $ because a tank without corals really doesn't need that much light.
Sheash.. a mod moved this thread? Mod, why not just change the title because most of this thread is about general sw questions, setting up a tank, fish compatability.. just one question was on PVC/Glue and because of that it gets moved to the DIY section?
Amphiprion
12-10-2008, 1:26 AM
Sheash.. a mod moved this thread? Mod, why not just change the title because most of this thread is about general sw questions, setting up a tank, fish compatability.. just one question was on PVC/Glue and because of that it gets moved to the DIY section?
Judging from the title, multiple references to lighting, water motion, filtration, etc., it seems to belong here. The livestock references seem like more of a sidetrack to me.
gatotsu77
12-10-2008, 2:28 AM
My apologies, I kinda tried to cover too many bases in one thread. I'll get into the livestock in another thread, and focus more on the mechanical aspects of the tank setup in this thread.
A couple 150w MH's are very tempting... especially given what I've read about coral growth and the such. I just worry about the heat issue. My bedroom gets fairly warm in the summer as it is (tank is located in my bedroom, the bedroom is on the 2nd floor, and the A/C vent doesn't blow cold air when the A/C is on) but I've got a few ideas to help counteract that, or at least to some extent. (Sometimes its nice living at home) I do plan to set up a couple cooling fans, and see where that gets me. If I can keep the tank at a nice 78 degrees, I'll be set. If it keeps climbing up to 80+, I plan to have several water bottles with 4-6 ounces of water in them to freeze and swap out of the tank. I may actually add a bit more volume to each, as I've experimented with my freshwater tank and using this method to cool it down. By the time a whole bottle thawed, in about 45 mins, it had lowered the tank temp on average by half a degree fahrenheit. If I'm stuck at work and its REALLY hot out, I could have my folks swap a couple of those out during the day for me to help keep it cool. (If its a consistent problem, I'll shell out and get a 1/10th hp chiller)
gatotsu77
12-10-2008, 6:58 PM
Ok Ace, time for me to pick your brain again. :p: I've been looking at a couple MH lights, and I'm curious to see what you think about them.
First option: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+15489&pcatid=15489
Viper 150w MH, one on either side of the tank, half way between the tank edge and the center brace. I'm fairly certain I can get it high enough above the tank to have it effectively light the entire side of the tank. My concern is that this unit is fairly sleek, and may retain a lot of heat. I've seen the 70w variant in person, and it seems like a great fixture for the price.
Second option: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13922&pcatid=13922
Aqualight, also by HQI, also 150w, 14,000k MH. Higher price by $55/unit.. so overall setup would add another $130ish. (after tax) What I like about this unit is it has its own cooling fan, and appears to have a better reflector. I've never seen this unit in person, so that's simply based on what I can tell from the pictures.
Of these two units, which do you feel would be the better choice? (I want this reef to last, so I'm not going to just take the cheap way out. If the more expensive light really is the better buy, I will go for it) I don't believe I could get the 2nd one as high off the water, so that might cause a bit more in the way of heat issues, but at the same token the reflector seems wider, so I believe I might have more even coverage in the tank with just 2 units. I figure the HO T5 unit will cost me almost $500 anyway... so this might be the more worthwhile route. (and as mentioned earlier, I will be setting up a couple 120mm cooling fans above the tank if I go MH)
Is there a reason you want those clamp on MHs vs a fixture? They seem very expensive to me. Really hard call.. I love MHs but an 8 bulb T5 fixture is also very good. Either one will be enough light for whatever you want. You do get the added "Cool shimmer effect" with MHs though which can't be reproduced with any tube light.
Question.. are you going open top or are you planning on putting a glass top on your tank? Kinda leading to the next question.. is a DIY canopy an option for you? If you have a few tools for woodworking it isn't that hard to build a canopy and you will save a ton of $ if you buy something like a 2x150w ballast and 2 HQI Pendants and wire up the light yourself (it sounds intimidating but it is very very easy to do). If you can find used, even cheaper.
HQI in this hobby actually means quite a few different things and none of which are correct. Normally people refer to DE bulbs (Double Ended) as HQI but that isn't really what it means. My ballast is a TRUE Magnetic PFO HQI ballast and I run a SE (single ended, mogul screw in socket) XM 10K on my HQI ballast and what that does on a SE bulb is overdrives a normal 250w bulb up to 372w. Same ballast on a DE bulb will not do that, you will only get 250w on a DE bulb.
Hydrargyrum quartz iodide (HQI) is a special type of high-intensity discharge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_discharge) (or HID) lighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_(electrical_component)), where the light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light) is produced using a very high voltage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage) electrical arc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_arc) through a gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas). The "H" in "HQI" comes from hydrargyrum, the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) name for the element (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element) mercury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)). When heated, mercury vapour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-vapor_lamp) is created inside the bulb, and deposited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_deposition) when it cools.
gatotsu77
12-10-2008, 8:02 PM
Haha wow, I feel dumb, I thought HQI was a manufacturer. :p: Well, this is part of the long journey of converting to the dark side of aquarium keeping. :D
I do rather like the look of the clamp-on fixtures, and ideally I'd have hanging pendants, but my folks won't let me drill anything into the ceiling. I don't mind the look of the light bars going across the top, but somehow I find the clamp-on lights to be less distracting from the tank. Yeah... I'm crazy... I know. >_< Hahaha....
Given what I've seen of MH's over T5's, I'm very inclined to go for the look of MH myself. I observed the Viper 70w over a 24g nano-reef, and it looked absolutely gorgeous. (another dumb question: would two 70w MH's be sufficient for this tank? Somehow I seriously doubt that would have the power to let me have a Tridacna clam and some corals I'll ultimately want, but I figured I'd ask anyway)
I do have the tools and the experience to build an enclosure, as I've been dealing with wood working since I was 8. (22 now) My father has taught me a bunch of the stuff he can do, and with him as a resource, I'm positive we could build one killer fixture. It kinda goes back to what I was saying about the all-enclosed units earlier though, I just don't like the look of them as much. I think I really am crazy. >_<
Just an example to reference, if I got an all-enclosed unit, I'd likely go with something like this. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8075+13975&pcatid=13975
However, with how expensive that is, I may as well just shell out for this monster. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8075+12779&pcatid=12779
Ideally speaking, I'd like to keep it open-top. If glass is the way to go, I've got no problems with that, but it seems much easier to cool and maintain an open-top tank. (I do remember reading on the 2nd MH clamp-on I listed not to use over an open tank, but the first one has no such warning. Additionally, I've seen the Viper running open-top with no problem.)
Thanks again for keeping on top of this thread and helping me out Ace. :D
gatotsu77
12-10-2008, 8:02 PM
Haha wow, I feel dumb, I thought HQI was a manufacturer. :p: Well, this is part of the long journey of converting to the dark side of aquarium keeping. :D
I do rather like the look of the clamp-on fixtures, and ideally I'd have hanging pendants, but my folks won't let me drill anything into the ceiling. I don't mind the look of the light bars going across the top, but somehow I find the clamp-on lights to be less distracting from the tank. Yeah... I'm crazy... I know. >_< Hahaha....
Given what I've seen of MH's over T5's, I'm very inclined to go for the look of MH myself. I observed the Viper 70w over a 24g nano-reef, and it looked absolutely gorgeous. (another dumb question: would two 70w MH's be sufficient for this tank? Somehow I seriously doubt that would have the power to let me have a Tridacna clam and some corals I'll ultimately want, but I figured I'd ask anyway)
I do have the tools and the experience to build an enclosure, as I've been dealing with wood working since I was 8. (22 now) My father has taught me a bunch of the stuff he can do, and with him as a resource, I'm positive we could build one killer fixture. It kinda goes back to what I was saying about the all-enclosed units earlier though, I just don't like the look of them as much. I think I really am crazy. >_<
Just an example to reference, if I got an all-enclosed unit, I'd likely go with something like this. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8075+13975&pcatid=13975
However, with how expensive that is, I may as well just shell out for this monster. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8075+12779&pcatid=12779
Ideally speaking, I'd like to keep it open-top. If glass is the way to go, I've got no problems with that, but it seems much easier to cool and maintain an open-top tank. (I do remember reading on the 2nd MH clamp-on I listed not to use over an open tank, but the first one has no such warning. Additionally, I've seen the Viper running open-top with no problem.)
Thanks again for keeping on top of this thread and helping me out Ace. :D
Actually glass tops are frowned upon because it restricts the gas exchage/oxygen getting back into the tank. I asked though because there are a lot of "jumper" fish that will happily jump out of an open top tank and carpet surf. Not a fun thing to come home to... had it happen more times than I can count.
I think 70w is not enough for that tank to give you the options for anything down the road. I would definately go with 150s. Fixtures are VERY expensive, $800 being an average price, but you can DIY if you buy the parts for 1/2 that money and get a much better light setup, plus you get to chose your reflectors, brand and kelvin of bulb, single or double ended (it is all preference if your not going to overdrive them like I do, and I admit I am an oddball doing that).
Check out the thread a couple down from this one about the hood, really good design to build your own. I will admit, 2 clamp on lights will look super clean and streamlined so I don't want to discourage you using those, I am just wondering how you would cover the top to avoid jumpers with them if you don't put on a glass top or eggcrate (what I did, and stopped 90% of jumping but a couple still made it through)
gatotsu77
12-10-2008, 8:38 PM
Gotcha, so I'll definitely go 150w on each side if I go MH. Especially against a black background with just a couple Koralia's in the tank, I think the 2 clamp-ons will look rather slick too. I could likely work something out to be a bit cheaper, but in this situation going with pre-built might be a better alternative for me. Once I have my own place, I'll be all over the DIY stuff. My folks would be paranoid about the thing catching fire, even though I know I'd be able to guarantee no such thing would happen. That's just how my mother is. (She forbid me from installing a water cooling system in my pc, thinking that I'd burn the house down or blow up the room its in.)
The thread Cheech posted about the DIY hood looks pretty good, and I bet that would have a nice look to it once its done. I'm just not sure I want to have a wooden box on top of my tank. :\
The eggcrate is a good idea, and I know I can get that pretty cheap at Home Depot. $10-$20 investment to protect my fish would definitely be a worthwhile investment. I could split it so that when its resting on top of the tank it covers the top completely, but when I need access I can remove half of it at once, or both segments if necessary, so I don't have large eggcrate pieces sitting on my bed while I'm working on the tank. Similar idea to having a segmented glass top. The eggcrate will likely make cooling the tank a bit trickier, but hey, I'm crafty, I'll come up with something. I'd mostly just need to elevate the fans slightly so they blow more down at the water than across the entire surface. Hopefully I'll get a couple working sketches or something going in the next week. :)
gatotsu77
12-12-2008, 1:48 PM
I've been doing some more thinking about the PVC live rock supports. What if I were to include a few small nozzles or openings in the pipes, and attach a decently powerful powerhead to one end of the system? I know it wouldn't achieve quite what your setup does Ace, but hey, that might work for a system not having a sump, yes? From your observations, does the added flow in between the rock help the tank at all?
Yup, just like a Hang On Back protein skimmer in a tank has a powerhead that sits inside the tank, you can stick a powerhead in the tank and connect it to one end of your PVC via a Barb-Slip fitting and a short piece of hose. This will make an internal closed loop setup. One thing to think about though is small pumps like that tend to clog and need maintanence so don't stick it in a place you wont be able to get to and remove it every so often for cleaning.
Yes, the floating reef/Closed loop in my setup helps A TON.. keeps the rocks fairly clean and really helps with the over all chaotic water movement. Right now I am using 2 SCWDs, one on the closed loop and one on the return, but different rated pumps so each one occalates at a different speed, making it a nice random flow in my tank.
gatotsu77
12-12-2008, 8:02 PM
Thanks for the tip, I'll likely try to plumb it so its in an accessible corner, yet not too much of an eye-sore. I'd probably target 400-600 gph, and have at least 2, maybe 3 outlets from the pvc to direct current through the rock work. I'll need to draw it all out and perhaps even build a model out of wooden dowel, but then PVC isn't too expensive... perhaps the same price as the dowel would be. I can imagine this system could potentially bung up the PVC pipes too... and boy would that be a mess having to take the whole tank apart to clean out those pipes. Any insight on that potential complication? And would it be wise to use a sponge to cover the intake of the powerhead, or just a strainer basket?
I've thought about an electronic wave maker, but I know that Koralia's don't work well with them. Something to do with how they start up causes them to fail rather quickly on such a device. I think the one recommended by another one was Tunzee, or something like that. Any opinions about those particular powerheads?
They do make koralia wavemakers and powerheads but they are crazy expensive. Might as well go with Tunze or Vortech at that point. There is another wave maker plug in box out there that works with koralias but the name has slipped me now, it was still expensive if I remember though, $300+. The thing that is required for normal koralias to work is the power can't drop below 25% to keep the shaft spinning and not have hard startups each time. Normal cheap ones like Red Sea simply cut power off and on to each side, which is no good.
Ok, tip on floating reef, drill just a few holes, don't over do it or you wont see any flow, and also drill the holes bigger than the sand.. my first attempt I made small holes and they clogged real fast. I have since made them bigger and now they don't clog. As for powerhead placement, I would recommend as high as possible yet still unobtrusive. The lower you put it the more likely it is going to suck sand into it.
On my tank, my return pump is an eheim 1262. 950gph at base, I figure about 750gph when taken into account head and scwd. My closed loop pump is 1200gph, about 1000GPH after head and scwd. Just throwing those numbers out there to get an idea of my pump sizes and flow so you can use those numbers and scale them to try and get a best guess on pump for yours. I would go for probably a 600gph for you.
gatotsu77
12-14-2008, 2:14 PM
Wow.... $300 to be compatible with Koralia's seems way expensive. Dang... well, perhaps I'll go without the wave maker system. Its not necessary, just gets the tank closer to natural function, correct?
What diameter PVC did you use on your floating reef setup? (and if its also evaluated that way, how thick are the side walls on the piping?) Its funny, as I was thinking about it, 400-600gph spread across at least 3 relatively large nozzles seemed like it wouldn't provide much flow. I like the drilling holes idea. I plan to go with sugar-sized Aragonite for my sand bed.. probably 4-5" deep. (I've been told this is a great way to help handle Nitrates) Perhaps I'll just set up a pipe going up the back corner to about half way down the tank, and have the power head blowing straight down into that. Wouldn't look too bad, and it would be fairly accessible if anything happened.
So after accomodating head loss, you're running about 1750 gph on a 75g tank. That's 23.3x turnover per hour. If I'm looking for 23-25x turnover per hour, I'd need to be in the 1280-1375 gph ballpark, after accomodating for real flow rates rather than rated flow rates. How close are Koralia's to their rated flow rate? Dang... a Koralia 3, a Koralia 2, and a 400gph (actual flow, likely need one rated for 600) powerhead would come pretty close to that final number. I'm going to need a second power bar for my fish tank... hahaha.
I also have 2 Koralia 3's in the tank.. whatever those are rated at.. 850ea I think.
If you do the math this way it comes out to 57.5x Turn over..
Closed Loop 1200GPH + Return 750GPH + 2x Koralia3 1700GPH = 3450GHP / 60G tank (It is a 75G but 6" taken up for deep sand bed leaving really only 60G worth of room)
Most people don't include the returns though.. so if you take that out it is 48.3x turn over. To me, in a reef tank, 100x turn over is the holy grail but so hard to reach.
On the floating reef I used 3/4" PVC, normal SCH40 stuff, thin wall. It wont be under pressure. No, wave makers are not required.. but to me trying to get as chaotic of flow as possible is better than putting in big powerheads. A SCWD is a cheap wavemaker at $40 but are very basic...
gatotsu77
12-15-2008, 1:30 AM
Oh wow... I had forgotten to accommodate the couple of Koralia's you had in that tank. That is a LOT of water flow. Just wow....
I was thinking just last week about the actual water volume I'd see if I had a 5" DSB... and with LR and everything, I'm figuring I'll have 35-40g of water. That might be worth keeping the XP3 and XP2 on the system just for water volume and flow, nothing else. (well, perhaps carbon for the XP2)
I have been worried about excessive flow ever since I read something about over-powerful water current shearing off corals. Just how much water flow would it take to do that? (and I don't plan to have anything in the direct line of fire from a Koralia... I'm sure that would be excessive)
How much live rock do you have supported by the PVC? I was worried about just how much weight that setup could support.. and was considering going nuts with the pipework to over-engineer it. (my father has made me a complete nut about excessive structural integrity. If I'm building something to hold 500 lbs, I'll end up building something capable of supporting 2000 lbs, or more. I'll be darn sure it'll never fail due to excessive load or shearing.
So I was thinking... what about having two powerheads going into the floating reef? One in either corner of the tank, about 6" off the sand bed, each flowing something like 450gph. Couple that with the Koralia 3 and the Koralia 2, as well as the XP3 and XP2. 450 x 2 + 850 + 600 + 350 + 300 = 3000 gph total flow. (I'm sure after its all set up, this would be more like 2500-2600 gph) So, lets say 2500gph in something like 40 gallons of water. That would give me 62.5x turnover. Holy cow is that a lot of water movement. Granted, that's also a lot of equipment in the tank, but then I don't mind it as much as some. I'd likely have shortened intake tubes, add a black background, and with all hopes find something to obscure the view of at least some of the equipment. (perhaps a nice tall piece of live rock) And as it is, I'm looking at 8-10 power outlets needed... this is going to be quite the project. I think I need to sit down and price everything out before I fully commit to this idea. I would absolutely love to do this, but wow, all of the gear I'd have to buy, live rock and inhabitants included, is probably going to cost me a good $2k. :\ (I'm sure its well worth the investment though)