10 gallon help

[mcgrady7761]

hello. I have had this 10 gallon tank for around 5 months with harlequin rasboras in it, but i have grown bored of them and the tank was getting too dirty too fast. I placed the 5 rasboras in my 20 gallon tank with some tetras. My question is that, i would like put some sort of cichlid in my 10 gallon tank. Ive already heard of shellies, so if there is any other cichlids that could be put in my tank leave a reply. The ten gallon that i have set-up is well established with one java fern and 8-10 rocks on the bottom.

[Weezer]

A 10 gallon is to small for any cichlid imo........:)

[excuzzzeme]

Have to agree with Weezer. Save the 10 for fry or some small community fish. You need to think carefully if you are getting bored with you fish selection. Some of your smaller community fish will live 5 years or more. 5 months is a very short time in which to become bored.

[Philosophos]

I'm working at setting up a 10g for some Julidochromis transcriptus "gombi" Naysayers can go tell the founder of the krib that it's too small and that they can't breed (Erik and Kathol Olson did so in 1997-1998 with no problem). They aren't newby cichlids exactly; they've got some pair breaking issues. The rasporas would have to go, as they'd turn in to fish food. You'll need to do some heavy reading on these little guys before you buy them. That or shellies could work; plenty of people do 10g shell dwellers of the smaller varieties (some only get to 1.5in). In my experience, forums will tell you not to do something if it's risky or you don't sound confident. Conservative advice rarely comes back to haunt you. Just make sure you know what you're doing.

[jpappy789]

I agree^^^

it could be done, but I personally like to be conservative. Keep in mind that with all small cichlids you will have to deal with fry eventually.

[Philosophos]

I agree^^^

it could be done, but I personally like to be conservative. Keep in mind that with all small cichlids you will have to deal with fry eventually.

Agreed. You'll need either a grow-out tank, or some one willing to take the fry. Find a club/breeder/lfs that'll give you something for them. Esp. with shellies.

[Brian Bivens]

One other note, if your tank is getting dirty too quickly with 5 harlequin rasboras, then any cichlid will easily double the amount of fish waste, as they are a dirtier fish.

My 20 gallon with Neolamprologus Gracillis (2.5" max) is filthy in one week, becuase even though they are a small fish, they are a polluten fish!

Hopefully if you move into cichlids, you will take care of the tank often enough so that their messy habbits wont affect the quality of their tank and environment.

[AfroCichlid]

One other note, if your tank is getting dirty too quickly with 5 harlequin rasboras, then any cichlid will easily double the amount of fish waste, as they are a dirtier fish.

My 20 gallon with Neolamprologus Gracillis (2.5" max) is filthy in one week, becuase even though they are a small fish, they are a polluten fish!

Hopefully if you move into cichlids, you will take care of the tank often enough so that their messy habbits wont affect the quality of their tank and environment.

I agree. You'd have to willing to do the maintenance, and it will double with cichlids. They also have longer life spans in general, so if you don't think you'll be into them for 5+ years, you may want to look into a betta.

[icemanx23]

I don't think any cichlid will be fine in 10g. Cichlids are messy and mostly agressive. And in a small tank, they tends to get shy. Some shrimps and otto will be much fitting for a 10 gallons.

[Philosophos]

a 10 gal with 5 rasporas getting dirty too fast has two answers in my mind. The first is over feeding, and the next is the subjective opinion of every keeper as to what, "dirty" and "too fast" is. The 20g gets a 50% weekly water change with 50/50 RO/tap, some ferts and pruning, with occasional bouts of phosban when the algae kicks up. This is not too much work or too often IMO.

On the other hand, I know a guy with a 5,000gal FW tank, heavy plants, and about 500 oto's. He tops up, and does major water changes yearly as he has things nicely balanced in the water chemistry. Don't ask me how he does it, but apparently his params stay perfect.

Want my experience? I have had no problems keeping a blue ram in brilliant color without stress via a 10g. His tank mates were shrimp, a couple platies, and a 2 inch ancistrus sp. I had no problems on any level with this tank. Why? I water changed, added some java fern, and paid attention to the social aspects.

I would invite the entirety of the naysayers to go out and tell a load of experienced fish keepers that their 10g shellie tank isn't valid, that their fish aren't actually breeding in it, and that it's going to fail because 6 little shellies at 1.5in is too much.

Forcing conservative advice on a person isn't doing them a favor. I've seen threads mobbed with people saying that a 45 gal is too small for an angel (the scalare not altum) just because one member with little experience and a high post count said so. This is group dynamics for you. A 10g is trickier to keep cichlids in, and requires forethought. The chemistry is harder, the upkeep is more work, but it can be done; there's evidence for it all over.

So then, rather than saying, "it's too small for cichlids" when some cichlids only get to 1.5 inches and have thrived in 10's, perhaps it would be better to give the person a bit of credit as having half a brain by asking the question what sort of work they're willing to do. Maybe ask them if they're willing to take risks with the fish, how they'll move the fry, etc. My frustration here is people saying "no" arbitrarily without looking for obvious evidence on both sides, and handling the issue with a knee jerk rather than careful examination. The hobby has not been advanced by people saying, "Discus were too hard for me to keep so you shouldn't do it."

And finally, I mean no offense in what I'm saying, but rather I'm encouraging careful examination over gut reaction and solely personal experiences. At least offer a bit of thesis and antithesis. You can't claim a burden of proof reversal if you're claiming something on unrepresentative sampling without antithesis.

[mcgrady7761]

as for the tank getting too dirty, it was because of over feeding. i regret it now but man my fish FAT. I am currently re-arranging my tank by adding more rock and less plants. I always do 40% water changes each week, and change filters once a month, so I am positive that i can keep up with the maintenance.

[jpappy789]

I don't think any cichlid will be fine in 10g. Cichlids are messy and mostly agressive. And in a small tank, they tends to get shy. Some shrimps and otto will be much fitting for a 10 gallons.

So, is it aggressive or shy? The cichlid family is far too large to generalize personality.

I agree with Philo on this one. Plenty of experienced cichlid keepers have kept breeding groups in 10 gallon tanks. It isn't easy but it can be done. Again, I personally wouldn't do it as my schedule wouldn't allow me to keep up with fry output, especially with my multi's. With my 55 gallon I have much more to work with. It all comes down to whether you are willing to put the work into it or not.

[Pittbull]

i am currently raising 3 small julidochromis ornatus in a 10gal right now and even if i do decide if i want to keep them in the 10gal for the rest of their lives i will.

as long as i do at least 2 water changes a week and specialize in care what they need all should be fine.

i cant find my resource but a local university performed an experiment where they had i believe trout in a 10gal as juvies with a constant freshwater supply where freshwater entered one side of the tank and exited the other side performing 100% water changes at all times.

now the water i believe was dechlorinated and the fish grew as large as the tank proving with freshwater changes that the fish grew at rapid growth rates in no time at all.

but again i dont know of anyone who has access to this type of setup but what i am getting at is this. do the water changes in a small setup frequently and as long as the fish maintain a smaller size like 4" shouldn't be a problem, except a squabble here and there..

[Philosophos]

but again i dont know of anyone who has access to this type of setup but what i am getting at is this.

Drip/overflow and a sump with a reservoir tank. Making sure it won't overflow is kind of tricky, but doable. Or you can just cheat and get a wet/dry eheim if I'm not mistaken. This is the kind of system I'm planning for my 125g when I have the $$$. The cost for a system like this is probably sitting at $300-$500 for a big tank off the top of my head. You could probably rig the works at half the price or less for a 10g.

[Pittbull]

Philo sweet deal but i am talking 100% freshwater change not recycled water from a sump or a vat system straight from a water source.

EX: In short theory i would say that if you hooked into a main water supply like a faucet with a water hose attached and placed one end in the tank and another hose hooked into a small sump pump to drain it at the other end into drainage is what they were conducting.

I just don't remember how they were dechlorinating the water and the fish grew to be as big as the tank.

I dont agree to keep fish like this and i understand that this was a scientific test as well..

[mcgrady7761]

Ive done a lot of rearranging in my tank the bottom is all a fine sand, there is only one plant and about 15 rocks at the moment. i plan on having around 25 rocks so i can add more hiding spots/ spawning spots for the 2 julidos. If anyone has any good places on where to buy fish online from it would help, because my LFS sounded iffy.

[Pittbull]

What part of the country are you in..

[Wyomingite]

...
i cant find my resource but a local university performed an experiment where they had i believe trout in a 10gal as juvies with a constant freshwater supply where freshwater entered one side of the tank and exited the other side performing 100% water changes at all times.

now the water i believe was dechlorinated and the fish grew as large as the tank proving with freshwater changes that the fish grew at rapid growth rates in no time at all.

but again i dont know of anyone who has access to this type of setup but what i am getting at is this. do the water changes in a small setup frequently and as long as the fish maintain a smaller size like 4" shouldn't be a problem, except a squabble here and there..


Pitbull, one of my profs when I was at UW was experimenting with the same kind of set up, 20 years ago. He was looking at ways of maximizing protein yield with fish utilizing minimal area and volume, for aquacultural purposes. Some of the trout he had were amazing.

WYite

[Wyomingite]

a 10 gal with 5 rasporas getting dirty too fast has two answers in my mind. The first is over feeding, and the next is the subjective opinion of every keeper as to what, "dirty" and "too fast" is. The 20g gets a 50% weekly water change with 50/50 RO/tap, some ferts and pruning, with occasional bouts of phosban when the algae kicks up. This is not too much work or too often IMO.

On the other hand, I know a guy with a 5,000gal FW tank, heavy plants, and about 500 oto's. He tops up, and does major water changes yearly as he has things nicely balanced in the water chemistry. Don't ask me how he does it, but apparently his params stay perfect.

Want my experience? I have had no problems keeping a blue ram in brilliant color without stress via a 10g. His tank mates were shrimp, a couple platies, and a 2 inch ancistrus sp. I had no problems on any level with this tank. Why? I water changed, added some java fern, and paid attention to the social aspects.

I would invite the entirety of the naysayers to go out and tell a load of experienced fish keepers that their 10g shellie tank isn't valid, that their fish aren't actually breeding in it, and that it's going to fail because 6 little shellies at 1.5in is too much.

Forcing conservative advice on a person isn't doing them a favor. I've seen threads mobbed with people saying that a 45 gal is too small for an angel (the scalare not altum) just because one member with little experience and a high post count said so. This is group dynamics for you. A 10g is trickier to keep cichlids in, and requires forethought. The chemistry is harder, the upkeep is more work, but it can be done; there's evidence for it all over.

So then, rather than saying, "it's too small for cichlids" when some cichlids only get to 1.5 inches and have thrived in 10's, perhaps it would be better to give the person a bit of credit as having half a brain by asking the question what sort of work they're willing to do. Maybe ask them if they're willing to take risks with the fish, how they'll move the fry, etc. My frustration here is people saying "no" arbitrarily without looking for obvious evidence on both sides, and handling the issue with a knee jerk rather than careful examination. The hobby has not been advanced by people saying, "Discus were too hard for me to keep so you shouldn't do it."

And finally, I mean no offense in what I'm saying, but rather I'm encouraging careful examination over gut reaction and solely personal experiences. At least offer a bit of thesis and antithesis. You can't claim a burden of proof reversal if you're claiming something on unrepresentative sampling without antithesis.

Great post!

WYite

[mcgrady7761]

Albany, New York

[Philosophos]

Great post!

WYite

Thanks. Don't know where it came from; I guess it's a sore spot for me.


Albany, New York

The weather says it's 15F and snowing where you are. Shipping may be a bit risky. Are there any aquarium clubs in the area that you can get out to? Some one there might be able to get you a nice group of them.

If all else fails and you can't find anything better shipping, LFS or club, you could try this:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidst&1229992946

It's coming all the way from san jose, and the shipping cost might be more than the cost of the fish them selves. Still, it's an option.

[Pittbull]

mcgrady7761 (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=76155) wrote:
Albany, New York

Cool deal you are close to Atlantis in New York i believe and i have personally received fish from this dealer and have had great success with them pretty nice and i believe you can visit their store, here is a link - http://www.cichlids.net/

40,000 gallon state of the art facility in Gardiner NY .. good luck buddy.