Where to buy Pressur. CO2 components?

[Sumpin'fishy]

My wife gave the OK for the purchase of a pressurized system today! I have been looking around and haven't found a decent deal online. I know that many of you have ordered all of the components separately and that it's generally cheaper this way. Can some of you give me the locations/websites to order these items from. I need to know the best place to buy each component. I will buy a package deal if it's $150 or less, but I'm not sure about the one I saw at Aquatic-Store.com for $129. Has anyone ordered this one before? I don't really need all the stuff it comes with, either....can I get it cheaper?

I want a BASIC Pressurized CO2 setup. Since I don't plan to turn it off at night, and I have stuff to make a reactor with already, I believe all I really need is these items:

-Dual Guage Regulator (I've heard Clippard's are good)
-Quality Needle Valve
-Bubble Counter
-Professional Reactor setup (why not, if decently priced!)
-CO2 resistant tubing

Am I right? I don't think I need a solenoid or any other equipment, do I? Please let me know the best places for quality equipment for good rates. Thanks! I'm excited about going pressurized finally, but I want to make sure I do things right!

[djlen]

I would recommend that you look locally for a 10 or 20lb. used tank unless you want to waste money on that. Most places swap tanks. You bring yours in, they give you a full one back to take home that will be used. Unless you know of a place that fills on site. But that's a pain in the butt too, because they generally can't do it immediately and you have to wait at least a period of hrs. to get it filled an back in service on your tank.
Also, when buying on-line, a tank is a buster to pay shipping on.
I use the tank, the regulator, a needle valve and a reactor inside the tank. IMO, that's all you need. You will get differing opinions from others.
Check this link: http://rapidswholesale.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RWOCAS&Product_Code=BD435&Category_Code=BEKIT
The tank is only a 5lb. but the price is nice. The regulator is great. I use two of them with no problems. If you want to look locally for a tank, they sell the reg. separately for $44. It's on that site.
You can buy the needle valve at: www.clippard.com
or one of their outlets. Click on the 'distributors' link on the left side of the page. If you check around there's probably one not far from your home.
They sell the CO2 proof tubing in most decent LFS.

Len

[bobalston]

Take a look at my web site for information on sources of co2 equipment.

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2

Bob :D

[125gJoe]

Get the solenoid..
Keep your CO2 off at night since the plants don't need it then. Also, this will help prevent "pH swings".. And, you will go twice as long without re-filling the CO2 tank.. :)

[bobalston]

Unless you get an all-in-one unit with a solenoid, I think the solenoids are about $50. Weigh that against the extended life of a fillup at the cost of the gas.

Bob

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by bobalston
Unless you get an all-in-one unit with a solenoid, I think the solenoids are about $50. Weigh that against the extended life of a fillup at the cost of the gas.
Bob

Good point..
But, also remember time and effort getting the tank disconnected, 'dragging' it to the car and getting it filled twice as many times.. ..reconnecting and hoping the setting is still where it should be... ;)

[Sumpin'fishy]

I ended up buying the Milwaukee brand "all-in-one" regulator, with needle valve and solenoid from Aquatic Store. I dissagree with the statement that a solenoid will stop pH swings in the aquarium by shutting off the CO2 at night. Since my water goes from 7.7 or 7.8 down to about 6.8 or 6.7 when at 30ppm, that is QUITE A CO2 DIFFERENCE!! My water's KH is around 5.4. If I shut it off at night, It will start raising back up to the high 7's, and during the day drop to below 7.0. I'd rather have a more normal swing of around .2 to .4 pH during the day/night cycle, than a whole 1.0 difference!!! It also keeps the CO2 level high for morning photosynthesis. I see benefits of extended gas in the tank, but I'd rather spend 10-15 bucks every 6 months than have the unstable pH cycle.

I think I'll just keep my solenoid plugged in and working 24/7. Now time to look for a 5 gallon tank.:)

[anonapersona]

I got my full set up from Aquabotanic, the Milwaulie All-in-One dual guage regulator, solenoid, bubblecounter with bulit in checkvalve, after shipping about the same price as Sumpinfishy paid. the Plant Guild reactor includes silicone tubing but I got the CO2 tubing from Aquabotanic. Just got it all installed today, merrily bubbling along. Total cost, $149 to AB + $75 to local store for filled (older) tank with up to date presure testing. Some time spent locking the tank onto the stand for safety.

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Sumpin'fishy
..... I dissagree with the statement that a solenoid will stop pH swings in the aquarium by shutting off the CO2 at night. .....I think I'll just keep my solenoid plugged in and working 24/7. ....
Before buying a pressurized set-up I did research on it. Everything I have read said use a solenoid to turn off the CO2 at night since the plants do not use it then, and possible pH swings.. Articles went even further to suggest putting an air stone in the aquarium to purposely "gass-off" the excess CO2 build-up at night.

I can search for the articles if anyone is interested, or some others that have known this can post too...

[superjohnny]

I have the Milwaukee all in one setup (regulator, solenoid, needle-valve & bubble counter) and it works great. It was ~$85 shipped from aquatic-store. They were slow to ship so it took a couple of weeks to get here. Robert at aquabotanic.com sells the same setup for about $99. I got a new aluminum 5# tank locally for ~$80 tested, filled & ready to go.

Here's a pic of the finished product. It cost about $168 total.

http://www.johnnyanddana.com/images/Tank/CO2_setup.jpg

Instead of using a diffuser I've been using my canister filter. Just yesterday it caused it's first airlock so I think i'll build a "real" diffuser DIY style.

[djlen]

Told you you would heard differing opinions. When asking a question like you have, you open a can of worms, as everyone has a different idea on the subject.
I will say that I see no need for a solenoid. I get a pH fluctuation of .2 at night while leaving it run 24/7 and I get 3 - 4 months out of a tank of gas, running that tank on two 55 gal aquariums. Never had any problem with over injecting at night.
My kH is 3.5. I would imagine that with a lower kH you might see greater movement in pH. But if your kH is 3.5 or higher I don't see the need for a solenoid. And if your kH is lower you should be looking at raising it anyway.
A fill costs me $9. I don't consider that a lot of money every 3 - 4 months.

Len

[Sumpin'fishy]

I agree with Len fully on this one. Although I have no pressurized experience to speak from, I have been using DIY CO2 for almost a year now. I never did get a steady amount of CO2 in a high enough amount, even using 2 alternating bottles. Anyways, I saw the effects of pH swings when I had it going full throttle, and when it was shut off (and everything in between). The most stable I had things was when I was pumping full throttle all night long. 80gJoe, I have also ready numerous articles stating that in their opinion it was best to shut CO2 down at night or at least run an air stone. I have also read numerous articles to the contrary. With my own experience, coupled with logical deduction, and hearing both sides of the story, my opinion is: As long as you are not pushing TOO MUCH CO2, you will be more stable running it all night. Start slow and check the CO2 levels early in the morning before lights come on, and as long as that's not over 30ppm, you should be fine, barring some outside influence affecting the system. It may drop to roughly 25ppm (or maybe a max drop to 20ppm) during the day, but that's just fine! There is still plenty in the water column to be used by the plants.

I really appreciate all the opinions, experience, and ideas. Even if I don't agree or use a certain idea, it's still good to have the option of choosing it. I'm glad others are using the exact same Milwaukee regulator setup as I'm getting. Is it difficult to set/adjust? I have read that the more accurate ones have several more revolutions on the needle valve adjustment. This would make fine tuning easier, and adjustments slower. As long as it reliably does the job, though..... I'm happy!

[anonapersona]

The instructions on this Milwaukie system say to set the regulator pressure to 10 psi, then use the needle valve to set the bubble rate. I have mine running at only 6 bpm right now, first day in use. This gets the new tank to the same point that the old tank was on a good day with DIY. I'm in no hurry to crank it up, I'll wait until the plants are settled in. The fish have enough to get used to in the new tank. [edit- 6 bpm didn't keep the pH level at all, that was the fresh waterchange I was seeing, silly me. I'm at 30bpm to get 1.2pH reduction now.)

I agree with Sumpin'Fishy, the CO2 is probably fine 24/7 as long as you are not using high concentrations. I'm using the solenoid just to turn everything off in case of a power failure, for fear that without filtration and circulation, there could be an overdose. I can flip the master switch and be certain that everything in the tank is turned off.

I am using the Plant guild reactor and I'm very happy with it. I had a DIY version that I tried to copy off Plantguild but the real thing is a bit better in every way.

[Robert H]

I never heard of Clippard making a regulator...I have their needle valves.

If you buy an industrial regulator, you need to add a needle valve to it, and its a high pressure regulator.

There are two "all in one regulators" out there that include the needle valve, check valve, bubble counter, and solenoid. Milwaukee and JBJ. Both very good. JBJ has a fixed working pressure and is a low pressure system. The Milwaukee is a high pressure system that you have to set the working pressure.

I have sold both, first JBJ, then Milwaukee because its a little cheaper. Now I will be offering both. Personally, I prefer a fixed working pressure. Its seems safer to me. But the Milwaukee has a two year warranty. As far as the solenoid goes, it has its pros and cons. I have systems set up with it and with out it. You are basically getting the solenoid for nothing with these regulators, so use it or dont use it.