Plant Ferts

[James0816]

Was looking into getting the Seachem Fundamentals and Enhancer kits. I'm new to this type of dosing as currently I only use Flourish.

My question is, is there an all inclusive product that I can get instead of having six different bottles?

I know many here use dry ferts but I don't want to chance me messing around and overdosing a tank.

Thanks for the assistance.

** EDIT**

Let me throw in lack of CO2 in the mix too. I am mainly looking at this for a large aquarium and DIY Co2 will be out of the question until I can come up with a presurized system.

[avionics30]

Need to know tank size, lighting power and plant quantity and type. Thanks!

[James0816]

ok...think I will go with the dry ferts. Still reading posts and such but getting a wee confused. I'll touch on that in a minute.

As for tanks, they range from 10-46 in size. All but the 46 have DIY Co2 and all tanks are sitting at just over 2wpg. Plant range is about medium at the moment as much are still young and just waiting to thrive.

So...looking at AquariumFertilizer.com, I am currently looking at the PMDD mix and trying to find out what else I need to go with it. I saw some articles about the EI method but at 50% wc at the end of the week, that is kinda steering me away from that.

I actually just read one post where someone made that comment that the PMDD was junk and use individual chemicals instead.

So, now looking for suggestions on the ferts to use. Should I start with PMDD or dive straight into individuals?

Research continues.

[avionics30]

I use CSM+B plantex from aquariumfertilizer.com then add the macros seperately. I tailor the macros depending on what the levels are in my tank. Phosphate is usally abundant so I throttle that back and use adequate doses of nitrate and potassium. I keep all of the NPK macros on hand. The water changes are to prevent build up of nutrients. Once you get a feel for how your tank responds to your doses, you can tailor and keep things in check. Let me know if you have questions.

[James0816]

Lots of questions ;o)

At this moment however, I am just getting looking to get the feel of the dry ferts that I need to get. I know I shouldn't go at it full bore but would like to go in at about half throttle. That should enable to get an understanding of what to expect.

On AFs webstore, they have so many listed. To the first timer, it is a bit much to know what to get.

If I have read correctly, I need the following:

CSM+B Plantex
Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4)
Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)

** EDIT **
and for tank without Co2, I should get Excel?

Does this sound about right?

In keeping with the 25% wc weekly, how would this affect dosing?

[James0816]

I just found this little tid bit:

"
PO4 Modified PMDD Formula Many people have seen a need for PO4 to be added to the original PMDD formulation so I have come up with a formula that is based on the latest formula found on the Krib website but with the addition of potassium phosphate. In the original formulations all of the ingredients are mixed into a single solution, but this can cause problems due to the potassium phosphate which will react with any free iron. It is therefore easiest to make up two separate solutions for macro's and micro's. But it is possible to mix all the ingredients together by keeping the iron chelated. See my 'All In One' solution (http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm) for more details.
Macros
25g Potassium Nitrate
2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
11g Potassium Sulphate
20g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
500 ml distilled water
Micros
15g Chelated Trace Element Mix (7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu)
250 ml distilled water
0.5 ml Normal Hydrochloric Acid



Dosing The level of dosing is dependant on your plant stocking level. The amounts below are designed for a fully planted tank so if you are 50% planted then you can half the amounts. These are the amounts that I use on my tank and that I know work for me. They are both dosed on a daily basis.
2 ml of Macros solution per 10 gallons (US) or 40 litres
1 ml of Micros solution per 10 gallons (US) or 40 litres

"

How is this one?

[Fordtrannyman]

Lots of questions ;o)

At this moment however, I am just getting looking to get the feel of the dry ferts that I need to get. I know I shouldn't go at it full bore but would like to go in at about half throttle. That should enable to get an understanding of what to expect.

On AFs webstore, they have so many listed. To the first timer, it is a bit much to know what to get.

If I have read correctly, I need the following:

CSM+B Plantex
Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4)
Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)

** EDIT **
and for tank without Co2, I should get Excel?

Does this sound about right?

In keeping with the 25% wc weekly, how would this affect dosing?

Don't forget about K2S04.
MgS04 is Epson Salt! Check your source water first, if using tap. There may be enough present already.
If your source water is on the soft side, you may need a GH booster as well.

[babyquincey]

Hi, I am new at keeping a plant tank. Anyone used play sand as substrate? It is for a 45gallon tank. What exactly is a fert? Does one really need to use a co2 infuser for a 45 gallon tank that I want to pretty densly plant? thanks

[CBWMN]

ok...think I will go with the dry ferts. Still reading posts and such but getting a wee confused. I'll touch on that in a minute.

As for tanks, they range from 10-46 in size. All but the 46 have DIY Co2 and all tanks are sitting at just over 2wpg. Plant range is about medium at the moment as much are still young and just waiting to thrive.

So...looking at AquariumFertilizer.com, I am currently looking at the PMDD mix and trying to find out what else I need to go with it. I saw some articles about the EI method but at 50% wc at the end of the week, that is kinda steering me away from that.

I actually just read one post where someone made that comment that the PMDD was junk and use individual chemicals instead.

So, now looking for suggestions on the ferts to use. Should I start with PMDD or dive straight into individuals?

Research continues.
James
I am using PNDD (without added Phosphate) and Flourish trace to my tanks. I bought the PMDD from aquarium fertilizer.com.
The plants are growing great. In fact I had to give away 2 swords that were 26" tall and 24" wide.
Here's how my 46 gallon looks now:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171476&page=3
My lighting on the 46 is 96 watts cfl = 2.08 wpg.
DIY CO2
My ludwigia Repens is growing 4" per week.
Because my DD black angels require clean water, I do a 30-40% WC
3 times a week.
Good luck
Charles

[James0816]

This is pretty much my setup. ;o) same amount of light too. I just have sand as a substrate for future khulis and cories.

Can I ask a couple more questions:

1) How are you dosing the PMDD? Is it all mixed together or seperately?
2) Are you dosing ~ 4.5ml of Flourish twice a week?
3) Co2...how are you using DIY on such a large tank? I thought it was not practical for tanks of this size?

Thanks again!

[CBWMN]

This is pretty much my setup. ;o) same amount of light too. I just have sand as a substrate for future khulis and cories.

Can I ask a couple more questions:

1) How are you dosing the PMDD? Is it all mixed together or seperately?
2) Are you dosing ~ 4.5ml of Flourish twice a week?
3) Co2...how are you using DIY on such a large tank? I thought it was not practical for tanks of this size?

Thanks again!

James,
I'm not sure if this post was meant for me.
BUT, The PMDD is all in one mix.
I disolve it in distilled water and keep in a refrigerator.
I dose the PMDD 3 times a week (at WC's).
I dose Flourish trace and iron daily.
I use a cheap medicine syringe that I bought at a drug store.
On the 46 I dose 5 ml of PMDD when I do a WC and Iron and Flourish 5 ml daily.
I now have Ludwigia Repens, L. Repens X Arcuata, swords,
Hygrophila Polysperma "Sunset" and Limnophila Sessiflora in the 46.
Since I do so many WC's, I'm not concerned about a large concentration of ferts in the water column.
Charles

[avionics30]

This is my recipie for my Discus tank (pic attached):

MACRO
N, P, K
Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium - the macronutrients.

500 ml of distilled water
61 g Potassium nitrate (KNO3)
5.2 g Potassium monophosphate (KP04)
10.8 g Magnesium sulphate (MgSO4)
1.8 g Potassium sulphate (KSO4)
3 times a week add 10 ml per 20 gallons of tank. This will add 30 ppm nitrate a week to a tank with corresponding correct proportions for the other macronutrtients.
100 Gal = 50ML


MICRO
FE + Trace
Iron and trace elements.

Use 40 grams of Plantex CSM+B
1000 ml of distilled water.
Use 1 ml per 2 gal to raise Fe 5.0 ppm. Ie 20 gal tank gets 10ml
Dose daily, biweekly or weekly depending on bioload
100Gal = 60ML


I do not use anything in the substrate. The substrate in this tank is play sand from Home Depot.

[James0816]

Excellent info.

And Charles (CBWMN), yes, my reply was to you. Thank you and Avionics for the info. I'm gonna give it a whirl and see what happens.

CB...how are you doing the DIY Co2 on your 46?

[avionics30]

No worries my friend! Let us know how it goes. I'm sure you'll see a HUGE improvement.

[Fordtrannyman]

This is my recipie for my Discus tank (pic attached):


MICRO
FE + Trace
Iron and trace elements.

Use 40 grams of Plantex CSM+B
1000 ml of distilled water.

Use 1 ml per 2 gal to raise Fe 5.0 ppm. Ie 20 gal tank gets 10ml
Dose daily, biweekly or weekly depending on bioload
100Gal = 60ML


Do you mean 0.5mg/l? Target for FE is 0.2mg/l
I know some folks take it 0.5mg/l

[avionics30]

Ooops! Got the dot in the wrong place. Sorry about that. I usually dose high in the discus tank due to the amount and frequency of water changes (50% weekly). I never actually reach the .5% mark. Thanks for the correction. Good catch!

[James0816]

So then the dose for Micro would be less than posted correct?

[CBWMN]

James
I'm using DIY CO2, injected directly into the canister intake.
I use a heavy duty plastic jug (1 gal AriZona ice tea jug) then run tubing to an empty jar (safety valve so the solution doesn't go into the tank).
I mix about three cups of sugar into 1/2 gal of hot water.
I pour a small amount of the mixture into a coffee cup and add 1/2 tsp of bakers yeast and some more sugar. I let that start fermenting about 20 mins and add to
the mixture when it gets to about 90 d F
Sometimes it takes a little more yeast.
Awhile back, I used two gallons of mix but it stressed my black angels, so I cut it back to one gallon.

Most experts use pressurized CO2, but I have a sick wife and a lot of medical bills.
So I haven't taken the plunge yet.
Charles

[CBWMN]

Avionics
That's a beautiful tank and discus. What size is it?
Charles

[James0816]

thanks...i was curious about the diy co2 on the size of the tank. i run it on the smaller tanks with 2l bottles. may just have to give it a try on the larger tank...can't hurt anything.

avionics...another quick question. on the micros...you have fe+trace. so your mixing just the csm+b and that covers it?

[CBWMN]

Incidently, I got these plants from Fordtrannyman:
Hygrophila Polysperma "Sunset" and Limnophila Sessiflora
He sent more than I asked for and they are very large and healthy stems.
They have grown about 3” in the past 5 days.
(He also said he would give me a commission if I plugged his plants, LOL).
Charles

[avionics30]

So then the dose for Micro would be less than posted correct?

Recipie is the same, just quoted the wrong result.

[avionics30]

Avionics
That's a beautiful tank and discus. What size is it?
Charles


Thank you! That is my 150. I have a 110 as well, but it's a community tank. Same plant set up though.

[James0816]

MICRO
FE + Trace

Iron and trace elements.

Use 40 grams of Plantex CSM+B
1000 ml of distilled water.
Use 1 ml per 2 gal to raise Fe 5.0 ppm. Ie 20 gal tank gets 10ml
Dose daily, biweekly or weekly depending on bioload
100Gal = 60ML


Avionics....the FE+Trace....is this just the CSM+B or are you adding Iron to the CSM+B?

[avionics30]

That is just the CSM+B. Really all you need to aquaire is the CSM+B, Nitrate, Phosphate and Potassium add to that some magnesium (epsom salts) and you'll be good to go! I get everything but the magnesium from aquariumfertilizer.com. You can get the epsom salts from rite aid or any drug store. 6 pounds is like $3. Dry ferts are all pretty cheap in comparison to the liquids and they do a much better job.

[James0816]

Thanks again for all the helpful advise.

Let's say I want to slowly get involved with this. I should just get the PMDD. That should cover everything the plants would need right. Sorta like a beginners step into dry ferts.

Then I can graduate to the individuals like Avionics mentioned.

Would switching from PMDD to the other setup be detailed? By that I mean since the formula would probably change, is there anything that I would need to look out for?

[avionics30]

The reason that I went straight to seperate ingredients was due to my tank perameters. I had elevated phosphate and zero nitrate without fertilization. That being said, I wanted to customize the dosing of those items and be able to adjust accordingly until everything was in synch. Using the PMDD will not allow you to do this. Just food for thought. I have never used PMDD so I cannot really give you any advice on that. Best of luck!

[James0816]

sounds good. one final (maybe) question. how do you store it? just mix and place in a clean soda bottle and store in the fridge?

[avionics30]

I only mix enough for a week. In fact, I use old flourish and excel bottles to keep it in. These are usually 500 ml bottles, so if you get a few, they do the trick. Since I only make small batches, I don't refrigerate it. I just keep it under the tank in the stand with a measuring cup that has ml graduations on it. I suppose if I were to mix a large batch I would use a one or two liter bottle and stick it in the frige WELL MARKED so no one drinks it. Haha!

[James0816]

Got my PMDD mix in the other day (fast shipping). Quick question. I see were others are dosing a few times a week however on the bag it says 1-4 drops / gallon / day.

Is this an every day regiment?

Getting ready to mix and start dosing. Just want to make sure I do it right. I'm think of starting out at 1-2 drops/gallon though.

[avionics30]

You can do daily or every other day. The best thing to do is see how your tank reacts to the fertilization. If you start daily and experience an undesired result (like algae) then throttle back. I do every other day myself but sometime step it up if I see my nitrates slip.

[jpappy789]

:iagree:

Fert dosing is an experiment. Guidelines are only there really as a starting point.

[James0816]

Have to revive this after a DUH! moment on my part. For some reason I thought I had to dose the pre-mix at 2 drops/10g/day. After re-reading the directions on the bag, it states 1-4drops/gallon/day.

So this morning I ramped up my dosing to 20 drops for the 10's and 40 for the 20s.

For all of you that may have experience dosing, should I continue on a daily basis with the above menitoned plan or should I start out by dosing every other day?