View Full Version : 99 Gallon Tank Journal
I've seen many journals and other threads now, not only here, but also on various other sites. Just hope I can somehow keep this thread updated in similar fashion.
My goal is to piece together a lot of information that I've found in those threads. Some of you might recognize parts. (Gilles, Planted Aquariums has a great journal running. Gave me lots and lots of ideas)
So what's the general idea?
1. 99 Gallon Tank
2. Planted, eventually with Discus (they're still happy in a 79 Gallon tank)
3. Sump
4. Overflow box with drain to prevent flooding
5. Hood/Lighting and other equipment
6. Background and no visible pipes and other 'rubbish' in the display tank.
So far, I've been running canister-filters on both tanks. While they are convenient, easy and silent, I've been looking around to get better circulation of water, more filtration and space to move all my equipment into.
After reading Gilles' journal, I was hooked to the sump-idea, though with some small modifications. (No drilling in the display-tank) I might change that in the future, but for now I'm planning an overflow-box, to feed the sump.
Stand and hood is/will be wood. 2 layers of stain and 3 to 4 layers of coating to ensure it's water resistant. (outside, under a roof but with regular rain and tropical climate)
Sump will be DIY as well, got some nice pieces of glass for free. Still in the dark over that one. Will make some drawings soon to get feedback.
Ok, some pictures first.
The wood stand arrived last week, (had the frame done by a local guy) and first start to sand and stain it. Matching the stand I have already and both will be bolted together.
The back and top are very simply and cheap compressed wood! Even outside, no problem using it as long as you take care of proper protection. The current finished stand has been wet many times and not a hitch.
It's 1cm thick compressed wood, top will be glued only, the back side is screwed in with 1.5cm screws and glue.
You'll see that I leave the glue-areas unpainted to ensure that the glue really gets into the wood and bonds with maximum strength.
The stands are rock-solid, 70cm deep and 90cm high. This will keep the Display-tanks away from too small children. (My son only looks at them, hands on his back. Good boy, well trained on that, but still want to be safe, not sorry)...
Now, some pictures to get an idea of the 'victim' and where they will be positioned:
The tank is still on its old metal frame. I've been scared for the last year that it would break. Did not happen...pfff.
Plan is to move the smaller tank to that corner next to the water-tank.
From there, the new tank-stand will be lined up. There is a space of about 30cm planned between them, where they will eventually share 1 overflow-box (but separated into two individual sections, 1 for each tank)
The hood will not lean on the tanks, a separate frame to be made around both tanks. This way, stress on the tank is none bar the water itself. Also, I'll be able to hide the black plastic strips that are not done on an otherwise wooden stand and hood.
I've 'dumped' the filter of the 99G into the other tank, just to keep the bacteria going. Helps me start the sump faster once running.
Ok, my decision was to not drill the tank. I'll stick with that for now and hope to get some feedback on my idea for overflow.
I've attached a drawing. Hope it's clear.
To explain:
The water will come into an internal overflow box (from A to B) through top but also through a 'bottom-skimmer' (Credit to Gilles, copied that idea from him). Its pipe is lower than the water-level in A and pressure would force water in the overflow box from the tank itself.
Through a siphon with the U-shaped pipe, water will be level with the first compartment (C) of the overflow box.
My idea is to run this U-shape pipe to below the top of the bottom-skimmer. (same in the external box)
In (C) I have drilled a hole with an emergency overflow. (You know, pump running, water not draining, oooops) This overflow will be just above the normal level of the tank. It will empty in the sump which will subsequently have another emergency drain in case the situation gets out of control.
From C, it flows into E (to maintain siphon) and E empty into the sump.
D is for future use with the other tank.....
Some pictures of my current 79G tank to close it off for today....
Will add more over the weekend. Busy with the background now.
Rbishop
12-26-2008, 5:52 AM
Very nice!
Nolapete
12-26-2008, 9:33 AM
The "79" is absolutely beautiful. I suspect though with your gallons numbers you're converting litres to gallons. Am I correct? What are the dimensions of your tanks?
The '79' is 120x50x50cm
The '99' is 150x50x50cm
Using my calculator on my computer to convert.
Just to get the figures right for waterflow, light, measurements and stuff which is all in Gallons.
Damodred
12-26-2008, 9:57 AM
Wow, I love your 79!
Nolapete
12-26-2008, 9:57 AM
Interesting dimensions you guys have there.
With the overflow, you'll have to have a very high flow rate for the design to work and even then the water will likely either flow through the bottom intake or the top. The other will have limited or no flow at all. Water takes the path of least resistance which will be the top since there's no back pressure to keep it out.
There is a way to fix it though without scrapping the entire idea. You need to divide the box B into two sections. One half will have top overflow and the other half will have the lower intake pipe. You need a siphon tube from either side into your overflow box.
The reason this works and your design has limited functionality is that each side is independently siphoned. The surface skimming will be strong as will the bottom intake.
Hello Nolapete,
Your comments are making sense. I've followed another journal on that one and figured it wouldn't hurt to try it.
But in case it's not working, can try your suggestion.
As for the siphon-tubes, what length should they be?
Any suggestions there?
Nolapete
12-26-2008, 9:11 PM
Just make sure that the part in side B is longer than the other side. I'd double the length.
'The other side' would be C then? My plan is to use tubes (PVC-pipes) that in both sides go at least to a depth of 'half way C'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter how deep the siphon tubes go on either side:
- the level in B & C will always stay the same.
- the level in A & B will equalize and stop draining once water gets below the level of the overflow between C & E.
- the level in A will be higher than B & C as long as the return-pump keeps running.
Any misconceptions on those? Comments welcome, thanks all so far for the comments. Appreciate.
Nolapete
12-27-2008, 2:32 AM
Longer on B side. The reason why is that you want to avoid any bubbles from the overflow at the top getting sucked into the tube. This can break the siphon and/or reduce flow.
jpappy789
12-27-2008, 2:37 AM
WOW! Very unique tank size. Can't wait to see the final product, although I guess nothings really final...nice 79 gal btw! :D
Took me about 2 years of learning and struggling to get that far on the 79G. But finally getting everything 'under control'...(until the next surprising road-block I guess).
Seems indeed that US-tank sizes are more deep than high. Here it's typically square at the sides. Length-standards are 150, 120, 90, 70, 50cm..
Would like to have more depth at times, but its ok. Tanks (glass) are very cheap here, that's good. The 99G cost me 4500 Thai Baht, which at that time translated to 100 USD.
That's including hood, stand and internal overflow filter.
Nopalete, thanks for the info, will make sure that B-side will go down deep enough. C will likely be somewhere halfway it's tank. (that tank is drawn correct btw, it's about 30cm high.) So B at bottom C-tank length and C at half-way C-tank should do.
Likely I'm putting in two 1 inch siphons, better to have some safe-guarding there.
The return to the tank will be 4x 3/4 Inch pipes, 1 of them going through a CO-2 reactor and the other 3 straight.
Still undecided on the pump, but I'm looking at either 2 pumps in the sump or 1 external pump.
Ok, finished some modelling on the background.
So far it's quite easy, basically lots of styrofoam and silicone plus a knife.
The pictures show the story, just a matter of cutting and breaking foam and glueing it with silicone.
There's one piece that I've used as a trial before with cement. Without any color-additions, I've got red and yellow to mix and get it more brown in color.
Final layers will be epoxy to seal everything though the cement should be waterproof already.
Quite surprised by the weight actually. The cement hardly adds anything to it.
Reassuring for later, not gonna be as heavy as normal concrete mix... ;-p
Anyhow, once the cement is on, the epoxy will get some sand mixed in to make it look better. Once done, we can finally start moving everything into place and get working on the sump.
By the way, as mentioned earlier, I've also installed the filter-return pipes. You'll see 3 returns with 2 outlets each. Still thinking about the fourth one. I have siliconed them into the styrofoam and they will be covered under the cement-layer. Once done, they'll be connected to the pump.
I'm again playing copy-cat to Gilles' design and ideas, but I guess that's what you're posting it for....heheee
Rbishop
12-27-2008, 7:34 AM
Very nice.
67chevelle
12-27-2008, 8:56 AM
Very nice.
Nolapete
12-27-2008, 10:02 PM
I'd go with two pumps for some redundancy and options in regard to flow.
jpappy789
12-27-2008, 11:14 PM
Nice start on the DIY background!
I'm thinking of 2 pumps, Resun Penguins...
These are the specs:
MODEL：SP-6000
VOLT. ：100~120V 220~240V
FREQ. ：50/60Hz
POWER：40W
QMAX.：2800 L / Hr 740GPH
HMAX.：2.5m 8.2ft
PUMP OUTLET DIAMETER：￠13mm ￠1/2''
Given the corners, head and everything, I guess that I would end with about half of their output.
I can use them both internal and external, prefer external because I need to watch every bit of heat over here. Price for two of them would be equal to the single water-pump I'm looking at.
No details on that one yet. Simply a quiet external waterpump that is normally used to pump water around the house. Metal housing whereas the Resun's are plastic casings.
I like the redundancy idea and have seen good reviews on the Resun's but just afraid to end up with two pumps that are not strong enough.
Will be doing some more homework on that I guess. anybody with suggestions, please let me know.
Oh, for those who want to see pictures of the Resun: http://www.resun.com.cn/En/Products.aspx?Pro_ClassID=99&Pro_ClassName=WATER*PUMP&PPro_ClassID=107&PPro_ClassName=Velocity*Water*Pump
To limit flow, if necessary, I'll use a T with a valve on one end to adjust the amount that goes back into the sump. This way you don't limit or damage the pump and maximize your waterflow and filtration.
1 more question:
for the background, I'm using cement, just add water, stir it and ready to go.
To color it, I'm planning to use Iron-oxide which comes in variety of color.
My plan is to mix some yellow, red and black with water before adding the cement.
The resulting brownish color should save me a headache painting grey cement.
Questions:
- Iron Oxide, anybody has experience with that? Toxic for Fish? Or plants?
- Once the cement is dry, it's label says waterproof. I asked in the shop, and they assured me it would be ok under water.
But with the idea of the iron-oxide to color it, again...comments/suggestions very welcome.
Otherwise I'll have to get some epoxy-coating to seal the cement from contact with water.
Background is getting there. I decided to go with the iron-oxide to color the cement and avoid painting or coloring the epoxy later.
I'm happy with the result. The color is still quite red, but after drying, it works out to a pale red/brown color. I hope that a layer of epoxy with some sand will just bring it where I plan to be.
Anyhow, some pictures. Cement was easy, just try a bit with mixing the colors first in water, once you have the right color, add cement and mix it until it's a nice stiff mass.
I just used two putty-knives to put it on. Works great. A spray-bottle of water to keep it damp.
Well, yesterday and today where mainly taken by moving the 79G to make space for the 99G. Gonna be 4 meters of stand with 2.70m of fishtank...(I really don't have MTS...really..)
Sad, the 79 was getting nicely in shape, but also an opportunity to take everything out and wash the substrate, which I hate but need to do every three to four months or so. (I got a good layer of minimum 10cm at the front, going to 15 in the back left, around 10 in the back right. ( down the slope towards the filter intakes. )
Anyhow, this is what it looks like now. Tomorrow the rest of the plants will move back in until the 99G is ready. Once we get there, I'll start splitting some of the plants.
The background has been drying nicely.
Yesterday it looked quite dark brown and glossy, but now it starts to get more pale red/brown.
Still hoping to get some help on the questions for the concrete...
1. Cement + Iron Oxide, cover it with Expoxy-coating yes/no?
Realize it's year-end, so guess I'll end up coating it to be safe and done.
Happy and Healthy 2009 everybody, hope you'll enjoy it.
Been a couple of days, but plans are shaping up.
I've finished the top of the stand. Can start moving the tank but have to wait a couple of days for new styrofoam (bottom support). Had 1 bad experience with that, since then, no matter if the stand is the same or the support is horizontal, whatever.....just to repeat it once more:
Always change the piece of styrofoam under your tank with a new one when you move your tank!!!
Tested strenght and had to make sure the glue would bond well. Passed both tests.
Also started working on the mains water-filter. Still need to change the carbon and resin in the coming weeks.
Not using the ceramic filter-unit yet. Might plump that one into an automated top-off system in the future.
Ok, back to the subject. On my sump. I'll get a 23G (60x30x40cm LxWxH) tank this weekend. Together with the 10G (50x25x40cm) I have already, this will become my sump.
The fit next to each other in the right-most compartment of the stand.
The overflow box will be on the 79G stand, feeding the 23G.
I'll go with the advise of having 2 pumps.
Figured also that the 23G tank would be all the filtration, while the 10G will be the equipment-box.
What goes in there:
1. Heater
2. Return-Pumps (2)
3. CO2 Reactor (home-made, will post some pictures later)
4. Chiller (home-made, please look at my first post "DIY Chiller")
The Chiller is an old dorm-fridge, but modified. It's enough for me to keep the edge of the hot days here.
Currently it's still using the fridge-case as the actual cooling-zone, but I can take away the case, seal the copper tubes and then put them straight into the 10 gallon. Isolate around the outside and put it on a proper temp-controller.
Saves a ton of space since the compressor is on a rack by itself already.
Now, for the 23G sump-part, I want to run a 100% wet sump.
I think of 4 compartments:
1. Inlet with Bioballs
2. Ceramic Rings
3. Ceramic Rings (smaller size)
4. Compartment connecting to the equipment-10G (can use for Carbon or more Ceramic)
Will make some drawings first, but scanner at work so later this week.
Any suggestions / comments on above setup, very welcome...
By the way, decided to try and do without epoxy coating on the cement.
Curing it over a couple of weeks time. See how that works and how everything holds up.
Again, anybody send in comments on that, not done yet so could change my mind.
Have a look at following idea for the sump.
Made some quick drawing of my idea.
Now, the top view shows:
1. Left side the equipment tank.
Pumps
CO2
Heater
Chiller (not drawn in)
2. Right side shows the filtration-tank
By the way, I mis-calculated in my previous post, it should be 13G for the equipment tank, 19G for the filtration tank...total sump-volume 32G
Ok, water will come from the overflow-box into the receiving area of the filtration tank.
I plan to put a very thin piece of filter-floss on eggcrate in the overflow box to keep the rubbish out over there already.
If anything still comes through, I hope to keep that in the first compartment somehow.
Next, water flows through combed top over the Bio-balls.
Because its all submerged, I'm thinking of putting some airline-tubes on the bottom of the Bio-balls compartment to get oxygen in. Whatever is still in there after the filtration will not hurt the tank anyway.
All dotted lines in the first drawing are baffles where water goes underneath, solid lines are baffles where water goes over. The very thick short lines are high baffles where water does not go over at all.
The high baffles should stick above the water-level by the way and the inlet compartment will be a bit higher as well.
So, from the bio, it goes into the Ceramic I, then II, over the last baffle into carbon and then equipment-tank.
Return lines to the tank, and it starts again.
To make sure nothing cloggs, egg-crate on the bottom and ceramics & carbon into netted bags. Makes it easier for cleaning as well.
I could maybe skip the double baffles between Ceramic I & II and the Carbon, making them single and then having the last baffle (between Carbon and exit) lowered, water spilling over it to reach the 'exit' to the equipment-tank...
What you think? Hope some people can help me to make this one run optimal.
Thanks in advance.
bushwhacker
01-09-2009, 3:00 PM
all i can say is i'm going to be following this thread with great interest
Before I start on the 99 Gallon, some pictures of the 79 Gallon after moving.
Was just done quickly, not much attention to where the plants had to go. Made some obvious mistakes, like putting green next to green, etc.
Anyhow, plants all survived, did some cleaning and trimming on them as well and it's all running ok for as long as it takes to start up the 99 Gallon (over the next 2 months or so)
7620le
01-09-2009, 8:28 PM
wow great job.
cant wait to see it finish =)
And yes, finally I received the styrofoam 'cushion'. Cut it to size and started moving the 99 Gallon to its new stand. Quite heavy, guess it comes in at about 50 kg now. But clampled the metal stand level to the new wood stand. slided it over and after that toppled it with my dear wife in upright position forward and back on the metal frame.
Same process of sliding it on the wooden stand again and I was ready. Quite easy in hindsight but a scary experience no less.
Then a big step forward. Fill it up and more important, how do the colors come out fully submerged? I'm very happy with it, colors not getting as dark as I expected, though I have to wait for the first lights on top to see how that turns out.
Tonight I will get my 17 Gallon tank for the filtration-side of the sump. At 400 Baht, (12 USD) that's not bad.
Followed Nopalete's advise to go for redundancy and got the two Resun 6000 pumps for USD 14 each. (They claim 2800 ltr/hr at 0-head each. See my earlier post for the details)
Now I can finally start drawing up the frame around the tank that will hold all wiring, water and light.
Main goals for it are:
1. Keep all wiring and electricity on the left side of the tank and separate from the wet systems.
2. Support and hold all 'under the hood' pipes and wires.
3. Reduce and avoid any weight on the tank itself. leaving the tank pretty much freestanding inside this cave-like enclosure.
4. Enable the complete top to open from horizontal to vertical and secure it for maintenance/feeding.
Anyhow, after a night of holding water with an added pump for circulation, we're now into curing the tank.
Yesterday's reading at start showed a 7.0 Ph.
Will do some more testing to see how that develops. This morning's water did feel (yes, literally feel) very stinging to the skin. Might be my imagination, but will test tonight again to see if it's really of the scale.
From what I've read in various forums, curing could take as long as 6 - 8 weeks, but is largely depending on the thickness of the cement.
We'll start next month I guess with some guppies to check the water. Meantime, regular water changes and getting the sump, overflow and pipes ready.
I've mentioned before, the chiller to keep it all cool.
In another thread, "DIY Chiller", I converted a dorm-fridge to become my chiller. This one will now be used in the equipment-sump. The fridge casing will be cut away completely, I've attached 2 pictures to give the idea.
Requires only 2 small cuts and some screws to take the compressor and condensor together with the copper 'chill-tube' out.
I'm looking around for a good seal, since this copper-tube will go directly into the tank-water. The compressor-sled will be isolated from the rest of course to avoid the heat reaching the chilled water.
Quick update.
As expected, the Ph is off the charts now. It's at 9 after a day of water circulation. Nice, picture below, have never seen water getting there outside of my biology classes 20 years ago.
Got my filter-tank. Put all the glass in place, can start to measure and build stand for the overflow, drains, drill holes in the sump-tanks.
The two pumps nicely fit in the equipment tank and look forward to get it all installed.
Ah, I've also put together a CO2 reactor for the sump. Old powerhead and its bio-ball holder with some elbows from electricity piping. Just put a plastic sheet around the bio-ball holder, glue with silicone and now only need to connect the CO-2 tube in the bottom, 4 bio-balls inside, venturi hose through the top and back on the air-intake from the powerhead.
Currently 'bubbling' CO2 in the return of one of the canisters, giving good enough results but want to see how this one goes.
Rbishop
01-10-2009, 8:29 AM
Nice work. A bit late, but I would have sealed it.
Hello Bob, thanks for the reply, but which part would you have sealed?
And, on sump-design, you have any suggestions or idea's there? I'm about to start drilling and cutting the dividers and sections. I hope to have some feedback on it to avoid having to take it apart again once done.
Appreciate everybody's comments so far. Thanks.
Ok, it's Monday, woke up a bit again. Bob, guess you meant to seal the concrete right?
Anyhow, indeed too late. Did a water-change yesterday, see how long it will take to get to a stable Ph. Once I get that stable Ph, I hope I got the sump ready to start and fill it up with Carbon to take out other potential rubbish. With that running, I can add some small fish and see how that develops.
Started with the surrounding cabinet/hood yesterday. Will post some pictures soon.
My 79G has a nice hood, but I've experience some problems in the design and will try to avoid that now.
1. Electricity separated from the water
- All electrical parts will be connected from the left side of the tank. 'Control' panel over there, including all ballast. Still looking into the heater and controller, and later the Ph controller. Depends on the lenght of the cables I guess (for now).
- My tank is outside as mentioned, so I need to make sure it's not getting damaged with rain, sun and wind.
- Stress on the tank, only from inside. No pressure from the hood on the tank.
- Heat-reduction from the light as well as the ballast.
- Ensure easy access to the fish-tank for maintenance and cleaning.
Will post some pictures soon, still need to get some more wood and other parts.
Still hoping for comments on the Sump. Any suggestions or ideas are very welcome.
Bob? For that one it's not too late yet.... ;-p
Made some progress this weekend. Working on the hood's framework now.
Need to finish that one before I can start with water and electric because that will all be attached to it.
The pictures speak for itself I think. Hight of the hood will be around 15 cm (6 inch). Not sure on the light yet, would love to have T5 in it, but very hard to get here in Thailand.
Some checking to do in Chatuchak Market. No bad thing anyway, for fish-supplies that is a heaven on earth. You'll find everything you can dream of over there.
Anyhow, for now, the hood will have no reflectors but a glossy flat white surface.
One side will have 4 or 5 high speed fans to get the heat out, the other side will be open to let fresh air in.
Rbishop
01-19-2009, 4:45 AM
Nice progress!
Been a couple of days, but received wood for the back and top.
Read through my earlier post for a DIY Chiller and got the solution for getting the copper tubing of it 'directly' into the sump without it leaching copper into my tank.
To do that, I'll simply partition the equipment-sump into two compartments, 1 compartment will be sealed 100% from the rest and this is where the copper-tube goes in.
The glass, being a very good conductor of heat/cold, will not pose much of a barrier and give me very good efficiency.
Only need to measure and cut the right pieces of glass, install with silicone and fill up the compartment with water.
Connect chiller to the same power-outlet as the sump (which will be safe-guarded to a water-level switch, and we're sure that it will not freeze when anything happens to the pump and sump.
Will post some pictures soon on the progress, the enclosure of the tank is moving forward but takes time.
Tank is still curing, seems to be slowing down in Ph-increase. Have plenty of time for that, sump will be done this weekend, then drilling the connections with the equipment-tank and start on the plumbing with tank and overflow.
Weekend almost finished. Some progress on the tank.
First, sump. Almost finished. Got everything glued though migh add some smaller pieces of glass around to top edge to give support to a cover.
No need to comment on my silicone-glass skills, still practice but it should hold the water as planned..
To make sure I would get everything in the right way (I'm the kind that always gets at least one part the wrong way around), I made a drawing of the side of the sump in 1/1 scale and drew all the parts in.
Tank on top and nothing can go wrong.
Picture 1: drawing of the sump (top is bottom of the sump! Picture should be upside down)
Picture 2 & 3: the result after 24 hours drying.
Finished the backside of the hood/enclosure as well bar 4 layers of clear-coat to make it water proof.
It has an overhang at the bottom to prevent rain from getting under the wood and get me in trouble.
Painted it white, though most of it will be hidden behind the tank. This piece will hold the top with lights. It will be bolted to the wood-enclosures on both sides of the tank.
Left side for electricity, right side for overflow and returns.
Electricity enclosure starts to look like it, more painting and sanding to do and then start to layout the light-switches and stuff. What you see is the inside frame-work. All will be topped with tropical wood for the looks.
Some updates again on the tank.
Started assembly of the enclosure and connections for overflow, sump and electricity. Just some pictures to show the progress.
Water is coming to normal levels, it's 4 weeks now I guess, Ph not moving much anymore. Nothing I can't control with CO2 and WC anyway.
Got some connectors and hose today and hopefully, I can finalize on the water-connections top-side tomorrow.
More pictures to come, first today's work.
Pretty much finished the top 'wet-system' today.
Everything is now test-fitted, next weekend I hope to make some progress on the sump and hopefully in a week or two I'm ready to do a first wet-test.
Pictures attached...
I've put 2 pieces of compressed wood on top (left half of the tank) just to have an idea of the total thickness of the hood.
The final cover will be 2 sheets of plywood (very thin sheet, like 1/8 inch or so) that will cover a frame of 2cm thickness. The top will be coated with stain/finish, the bottom or inside as you wish, will be high gloss white.
T-8 lights, 7 of them mounted on this and all cables sandwiched inside the frame.
The frame/hood is shaping up really sturdy. Better then I expected.
As for the right side, wood will be similar in covering the overflow.
Next step of course to be the other tank to line up and use half of the overflow-box.
Can't wait to get water and lights switched on and running
Mindcrime121
02-10-2009, 12:04 AM
Impressive.
Nolapete
02-12-2009, 12:18 AM
Looks good. About how long before you're done?
I hope another 4 - 6 weeks to light and water earlier than that..
Hard to say. I still need to get 2 1-way valves for the pumps for example.
Can get them in Brass, but plastic...no way.
Water is mostly done but for the distribution panel between pumps and return-lines.
Rough idea of the setup this weekend, maybe even test-running it without the 1-way valves.
In between posting comments on Nolapete's monstertank, I managed quite some work.
Distribution panel for water is in, decided to (and pretty much finished) building an external CO2 Reactor from scrap-parts and silicone.
Besides that I've been lucky to get another sump-tank for free, same size as the big one I purchased. (60x30x40h cm) so make my sump-volume 38 Gallon now. Nice upgrade from with another 6 gallon from before and more space for the chiller-section and pumps.
Drilled holes to connect the 2 tanks. Out from the Filtration tank high, sloping down to enter the equipment tank low. Figured that the pumps will lower the water level and to minimize waterfalls I drilled this way. Still some drilling to do for water-change plumbing. Not 100% decided on that yet. The general idea is to have 'old water' run out from the filtration-tank and at the same time keep the pumps running whilst adding fresh water in that tank.
The 'new' tank also came with UGF that I'll use in the filtration-tank for spacing, to prevent clogging, at the bottom.
Anyhow, need to get some more silicone tomorrow and try to find some rubber-sheet. O-rings, can't find so need to make it myself. Could go with silicone seal, but that makes it difficult to change or clean.
No luck in finding the non-return valves as well, so likely will make some holes in the clear PVC-tubes where the tank and pipes connect on top of the tank. From those holes, run small airtubes just below the water and the problem is solved as well.
For the pictures, you'll notice that 3 out of 4 valves in the distribution-panel are connected. No 4 is for the CO2 reactor. If that doesn't work out as planned, then we'd have one spare (UV maybe) or just connect it directly like the others.
It's moving and I really hope I can finish this part by end next weekend. Then the week after firing up the pumps and testing...
Nolapete
02-16-2009, 11:57 AM
Very interesting Luc. You have a lot of work into your filtration. I can't wait to see it in action.
Thanks, same here. Really trying to restrain myself and think things through.
Looking at it:
1. Drill hole in the Black tank (last picture) long side, front, bottom to drain.
2. Put some glass support strips at various places, for a lid on both tanks.
3. Put glass support for egg-crate at various places
4. In the equipment-tank or Blue tank, put in dividers for the chiller-tube (copper, separate and sealed from the normal tank-water!) and fill it with water, which in combination with the glass would provide excellent conductivity for chilling.
5. Connect all electrical gear with a float-switch and relais to 1 electrical group to ensure close-down of the system when water runs out.
6. Installation and connection of the hoses.
Quite a list, hope I'll get on the way with it this weekend...
Rbishop
02-17-2009, 5:10 AM
Looking great! Lots of progress.
Time for some update, it's getting close to the first wet-test...(sweat breaking on my back...is it done correctly????)
From my previous post:
1. Drill hole in the Black tank (last picture) long side, front, bottom to drain.
Done
2. Put some glass support strips at various places, for a lid on both tanks.
Open
3. Put glass support for egg-crate at various places
Part done
4. In the equipment-tank or Blue tank, put in dividers for the chiller-tube (copper, separate and sealed from the normal tank-water!) and fill it with water, which in combination with the glass would provide excellent conductivity for chilling.
Done, but need to check on the waterlevel once running.
5. Connect all electrical gear with a float-switch and relais to 1 electrical group to ensure close-down of the system when water runs out.
Open
6. Installation and connection of the hoses.
Almost finished
Quite a list, hope I'll get on the way with it this weekend...
Yep, and still working on it.
Pictures will show the result as usual.
Put the media in the sump for now.
Did also add a hose to the overflow-tube, check-valve in it so I can suck out air and it closes. Likely I will connect it to a small powerhead in the equipment-tank that will keep the water moving around for heat-exchange. Need to check.
I've also completed the CO2 reactor, that will go on the 4th (still empty) return-line. Will get some pictures soon on that one.
Enjoy the pictures.
prolude006
02-23-2009, 7:17 AM
Wow gonna be some serious filtration on that tank. Are you worried about too much gas exchange with that setup?
I will try to limit that with covers on the sump and having the water in- and outlet continuous under water. Have to wait and see how much difference it makes.
The overflow box gives me enough space to test it out and where the water enters the sump, it will be under water anyway.
Still have to do the safety-connections. If anything happens in the sump then the water will run into overflow-hoses that run into the drain. Before any plants or fish go into the tank there will be a lot of testing.
Eventually I want to keep Discus in there, but I don't want to come back home and have them splashing for water or air.
Noticed as well that plants will suck up a lot of oxygen at night, so probably have an airstone at the first compartment that runs at night.
My goal is to have as much filtration as possible, as well as zero equipment in the display-tank itself. On top of that I want to the tank to be as natural as possible and have no worries on light. (There'll be 7 T-8's for now, some plans for more but get it running first.).
Last aim is to have all plastic rims and the tank itself disappear in a wood stand/cabinet that's solid and safe.
prolude006
02-23-2009, 8:10 PM
You are certainly taking your time with it!! I don't think I could stand to do it myself, too anxious to see the end results myself. lol
Should look amazing. The other tank setup looked great to me, good plants and all.
Thanks for the compliments. I do feel like I'm rushing to much still.
Nothing compared to the time and dedication that Coy is taking with his 150Gallon build thread...lol.
Most time goes into waiting for a part to complete so that I can measure/adjust the next part to it. Only a general plan, but many details that have to be adjusted to the final layout.
Makes it fun as well though.
Rbishop
02-24-2009, 5:10 AM
Very neat work. Thanks for the update!
Veloth
02-24-2009, 5:40 AM
Fantastic work! You're doing a great job.
Finally, I'm now waiting for the last bits to dry.
Once done, I can switch on the pumps. A lot finished today and I'm quite happy with it. The overflow box and the 1" hoses used for that are working. To get them running, I've used small garden-hose sprinklers. You know, those small plastic screw-fittings that go into a hose, connect it to a tap and you're ready. Not sure how you call them again, but you'll find them in any home-DIY shop.
I took one, take off the plastic top, and you have a nice opening where you put a airline on. Take a plastic check-valve and you have a perfect syphon-starter.
Next, I finished the CO2 reactor and hooked it up. Follows the same principle as all those DIY and commercially available reactors. I used whatever I had lying around and with silicone and glue, the end-result looks acceptable.
Two L-shaped screws in the board and a metal wire around the bottom-outlet and it's stable, secured and ready.
I've tried some with the overflow-pipes and bits and pieces of pvc-pipes to reduce the noise. Looks ok now, but will work on some improvements.
Then, I've at least done half of a wet-test. Water in the overflow, through syphon and down to the sump. Then through the sump into the equipment tank. Some small leaks at first between 2 compartments, but solved in no-time with silicone.
Another problem was a seal leaking on the front connection between the two tanks. Since changing water is going to be done by tap water in the equipment-sump and draining from the filter-sump, I thought better to put a valve between the two so that there's no 'bleeding' in the process and it'll speed up the water-changing. So, seal-leak solved, valve in-between, reconnected and water-proof this time.
Now, I also had 1 pump running for a couple of minutes and I found:
1. The pump seems to have no problem with any head-loss. Water is really pumping like crazy though it is into an empty tank so that will reduce a bit once testing on a full tank starts.
2. A small leak on the return-drain of the pump. Repaired .and waiting for it to dry.
3. I have a generous over-capacity from what I saw on that couple of minutes running. Good, better safe than sorry. Water will be pumping around and get filtered like crazy.
What more? Oh, yes, I've installed a small T8 light over the sump-compartment. Looks sweeet...Love it, never mind the display-tank...lol
Ok, let's have the pictures first.
Once the testing is done, water-change pipe and tap will be added.
I forgot to mention, you can see the smaller compartment in the sump with the return-pumps. You can see it's separate from the tank-water (level is lower).
This is where the fridge cooling element will go in to bring water-temperature down.
Check my thread on the dorm-fridge / chiller project for more details, but my aircon-guy seems to come over for maintenance on...you wouldn't believe it...the aircon..
So might as well get him to help me bend and install the stuff.
No more plastic hose and big fridge-cabinet. Only a thin piece of glass in between.
Nolapete
03-01-2009, 9:23 AM
Looks awesome.
Rbishop
03-01-2009, 9:51 AM
Looking good!
Thanks for the compliments..still a lot to do before I start on the electric-side.
Hope I can finish the bottom of the second compartment (middle) this week. That's where the compressor and wet-electric sockets will go.
Tomorrow afternoon I'll switch on the pumps I guess, see how that goes.
Cheers, night time here. Work tomorrow.
Mindcrime121
03-03-2009, 1:13 AM
Looks really nice, but this has got to be the single most complicated setup I've ever seen, lol!
I'm a complicated person but simple of mind...lol
One of those that loves bells, whistles and rambam.
Serious, it was a trade between custom big square sump or some extra plumbing.
Had my first wet-test yesterday. No big issues, everything is still dry, which is good.
But one (rather stupid) mistake: 1" diameter connection between the two tanks surely is not enough to drain the water from the incoming side to the outgoing pump-side.
So I'll start with 2 extra syphon-hoses over the top, see how that keeps up and then drill some more on the front to get that water running based on the findings with the syphon hoses.
Another find: The small hole in the returnhose with the spray-head works just fine and breaks the syphon instantly upon powerstop and water-level below the hole. 2mm hole, plenty enough. No more worries on that.
Same for the inflow, though the emergeny-overflows need some adjustment, just a tad too high...
I feel good...
As mentioned yesterday, bummer, not enough throughput in between the two sump-tanks. So today I did some testing, 2 elbows, 1" diameter. Both with tubes attached, making syphon-tubes that would nicely stay center on the rim of both tanks. Works like a charm for now. Enough throughput there and no drilling or anything (yet).
So then of course, the next bottleneck shows up, which is the two drains from the overflow-box. This one was expected though, there's no stockman's pipe on it yet and the two pipes are very high up in the box. So toilets sounds all over the place. It slows down the flow because of all the air that gets down the tubes. Topping it off, the level in the main tank gets very high to get enough pressure into the overflow box. That means a higher level of accidents and restricted waterflow. Currently, the pumps still have 25% more capacity than I get from those 1" drain-lines. Far too much, I want that to get to at least zero or a minus. (I've restricted both pump-inlets with a loose valve over the inlet. Closed the valve 1/3 and because it is loose, the pump gets hardly and resistance but less water even so. You can see them in the pictures.)
That'll be a job for the weekend though. Good news is that with a few minutes work I will have solved the backflow problem as well. If you look at the pictures you'll see 4 vertical valves. These return to the display-tank. Left to right:
Number 1 is left back corner: backflow solved and ok, giving only and inch of water back into the sump.
Number 2 is the spraybar on the left side, also ok, an inch of water into the sump.
Number 3 is the right front corner.This one still needs a hole drilled, will be done this weekend.
Number 4 is the left front corner with the CO2-reactor built in. This one is ok as well.
Filled and running, the sump with the return-pumps is about half full. So backflow and stop on the overflow-box has sufficient space and nicely settles in the sump.
So this weekend, I hope to get a fix on the standpipes and clear the back-flow issue. Then do more testing with all filter-media inside, though with bioballs in there, there's no slowdown that I could see. Great stuff, it's just a great sight to see that stuff running and balanced.
The CO2-reactor runs as prayed for. Initially quite some air-build up in the lines, but after a couple of minutes it settled and emptied itself. Can't wait to see how that will run with CO2 and plant-grow.
I've had guppies and an angel testing the water for 2 weeks, no problems at all. Took them out last weekend, back to their friends. A pleco is now cleaning the tank for me. (Looks like a safari pattern right now..lol).
All in all, just can't wait for the tank to start running and at the same time, start getting the electric done. Great....
Ok, some pictures...
dudley
03-03-2009, 10:21 AM
Very nice job, I finally got back here to see what you've been doing.
Just a quick suggestion though. DO NOT restrict the intake on your pumps!!!! If you must control the pump flow, put the ball valves on the output side. Starving the pump will definitely cause damage to them.
Nolapete
03-03-2009, 10:22 AM
Insert a piece of rigid airline tubing into each of your overflow tubes. This will break the air pockets and vent them off allowing your flow to move less hindered.
I agree on not restricting. Add a T and a valve to the output line. You can divert the output of the T back into the filter or into the tank for circulation. The valve allows you to throttle down the pump without restricting it by giving the water another place to go.
Thanks for the advise Dudley, and Pete..
I have the T installed and working as you can see in the last pictures I posted.
They run and indeed slow down everything nicely. Will do some more testing on that.
Cheers, you'll see the updates soon again.
prolude006
03-03-2009, 5:57 PM
No offense but that just seems overcomplicated!!
Good luck to you though.
Cant wait to see the plant growth it provides.
Impressive.
...... Most Impressive.
Prolude, no offence taken, I enjoy every comment of people watching this thread, thanks for doing just that.... Yes you're quite right on the complicated part. As mentioned before, the goal for me was to have a sump as big as possible. I've been thinking about all kind of options I had, but the cabinet's design, using minimal wood size with maximum strength and using as much cheap and DIY parts as possible where limiting into putting a nice logical and straight sump in there.
I got one sump-tank and the overflow-tank for free and the other sump-tank for 400 Baht (11 USD). For the return-lines and equipment, as you can see from this thread, I want to see no stuff in the display-tank at all except gravel, fish and plants, they're all worked away into the concrete background so 4 return-lines from 2 pumps. (2 pumps to have some redundancy/safety if one pump gives up.....Thanks Pete, I've taken your advise to heart there and happy with it!)
Then, I want to be 100% safe and sure that it all keeps working in every scenario. So there might be overkill in the design, but better than having to rip everything out and add later.
It makes it complicated in such a small working-space, but it's working so far...
With the two tanks for sump, I figured it to be better to designate them into Equipment and Filtration. That way I have as linear throughput as possible on the filtration, avoiding dead spots and slowdown and maximizing filtration-space.
Last, for the overflow-box, out of 4, 2 currently empty compartments will be used for the 2nd display-tank in the future. It will move right next and have the same overflow-box but separate water-flow and a separate sump below it.
Complicated indeed, but hope it explains the reasoning behind it.
Advise for reducing the complicated work is always welcome of course...
Re: the Co2 reactor and initial build up of gases; it looks like it isn't a problem now but I'm surprised to see no bleed-line in the reactor unit. Perhaps there is one.... is that the tubing to the right of the endcap? Was it self-made or a commercial unit? You're doing a fantastic job here Luc.
Hello Pete, you picked up your Arowana's already? Enjoy, very curious on those babies.
The overflow tubes are no problem, they stay deep into both overflow-tank and display-tank and no air-pockets at all, running or still. (Partly based on your advise early on in this thread.) Got a tube on top with a check-valve that works nicely for now, but will monitor.
The air-buildup I had was in the return-line and CO2 reactor during start-up. That one settles itself after a couple of minutes.
Backflow as mentioned in my earlier post yesterday is solved on 3 lines, 1 to be drilled and done this weekend.
Cheers.
Luc
Hello DrVader, thanks for the compliment, felt great to see the system running yesterday.
Re: the Co2 reactor and initial build up of gases; it looks like it isn't a problem now but I'm surprised to see no bleed-line in the reactor unit. Perhaps there is one.... is that the tubing to the right of the endcap? Was it self-made or a commercial unit? You're doing a fantastic job here Luc.
There is no bleed-line to release any gas out with a small air-valve.
But you are right on the tube right of the endcap. That one goes about an inch down into the reactor, and it was cut at 45' angle and sticking into the feed-line on top where it goes with the direction of the waterflow, sucking air (CO2) away (I assume I can correctly call it venturi-loop).
The unit is DIY from scrap parts.
- Plexi cylinder
- End-caps and black 'net-covers' top and bottom are a cut up powerhead filter-unit.
- Tubes and some pvc-connectors
- Silicone
- 3 bioballs.
I had everything running for a couple of hours yesterday and for the reactor, initial gas/air buildup disappears in about 10 minutes, after that, there's 'verocious' bubble-movement in the top half, clear water in the bottom-half going to the tank.
To early to call victory, but promising results.
Some more testing yesterday. Still no issues. Tried various inlets & outlets in the sump. Basically variations to reduce the toilet-noise as well as the amount of air coming down with the water.
Findings:
1. If I use 1 hose (1 inch dia.) down into the sump with two 1" syphon-tubes and an almost closed top on the stockman standpipe, then the flow is fast enough to have almost 0 air coming down, resulting in watermovement only without 'cavitation' in the sump.
2. With setup as above, no need to restrict flow on the pumps in any way. It balances...victory...
3. The CO2-reactor is running flawless. Air buildup is sucked up by the Venturi line and I currently see a pattern of water-air-water-air going up and back into the feed-line.
4. Since the setup under 1 is working fine, I think it will result in switching back to the original idea of
- Having 2 syphon-tupes coming into 1 box with an (emergency) overflow-drain into the sump.
- The level will overflow into the standpipe box and go down.
- In the sump all as per normal and back up with the pumps.
More testing to be done and I need to build a level-switch for the pumps. Got the scrap-parts, but need to put it all together.
Gonna be some type of float-switch connected to a 220V relais to switch on and off. Will make pictures in the process.
When I can have the water running on Sunday all day without hickup, I can start moving to the next stage.
cheers...
Very pleasantly surprised that with 1 return-line still to finish, the level between running and power shutdown is just 3 to 4 inch.
That means I can still up the level a good 8 to 10 inch...
Nolapete
03-04-2009, 9:06 PM
Good to hear!
Thanks, your Aro's are looking good too. Friend of mine is always pushing me to get them but I'd need to get a proper tank for that first. I'm all for the 'complete picture' and proper habitat for a fish. No bare bottom fish-display for me.
Love to get started on a project like yours though.
Arturo
03-05-2009, 12:14 AM
I like the back ground. Very impresive!
BoCoMo
03-05-2009, 4:12 PM
I can't wait to see it finished! Don't forget to post some pics of the 79g along the way!
Quick update, no pictures today but been test-running the sump all day yesterday.
Still don't dare to run 24/7 because I dont have safety-switches installed on minimum water-level in the tank.
Will be soon though.
CO2 reactor is working perfect. Like DrVader's commercial unit (and Coy's unit as well), with the difference that the bleed-line is running back into the water-loop before the reactor and this just takes any air-buildup after a restart away in a couple of minutes.
It might be worth considering this on the commercial unit DrVader, Coy.....Just loop the bleeding valve, plump it in a Y fitting to make sure it 'pulls' air, not pushes water in...then runs into the reactor-chamber again.
Never any gas-buildup during operation, even with a power-drop and restart, it will automatically calibrate itself.
Cheers,
Luc
Nolapete
03-08-2009, 9:43 PM
Does it restart properly without intervention after shutting down for an hour?
Yep, there is basically no difference between 1 minute and 1 hour because the syphon-break on the line pulls a lot of air into the reactor. (about 2 inches) before the back-flow stops completely.
Quite some violent water and air movement in the last few seconds and then it just stops.
Restarting the pump (switching them on only) will then start with some additional air between the pump and the reactor getting in. After that, give and take 10 minutes, it's all gone...
As for the CO2 bubbling, I'll have the CO2, chiller and pumps on the same electric line that will be controlled by a low-water switch. Anything goes too low, switch will break electricity and stops adding more CO2 or freezing the water.
Same for long switch-off though, not running overnight yet because that low-level switch is not in yet.
But switching off previous evening and starting the next morning gives the same results...
Nolapete
03-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Just be careful if air gets into the pump impeller chamber. It can cause a pump to lose prime and essentially run dry.
Hmmm, you might have a point there, though the pumps are under water and there is free airflow after a shut-down (the syphon-breakers connect with outside air).
So theoretically, the air that comes down during a power-shutdown (and really bubbles out of the pump-inlets), should disappear in 1 or two seconds after all water flow stops, levelling with the water in sump (about 30cm on top of the pumps) since there is no air-pressure buildup.
If there are design-flaws in the pump-chamber, then we'll find out in due course but I hope to be able to find 2 check-valves that will stop the backflow and keep water in the pump-lines...
(Check-valves are safer for smaller fish as well ;-) don't want them to get sucked into the water-lines with a powerdown....)
Just some pictures after today's start of testing.
For the sump and water the goal is to have it 100% silent and with no cavitation at all. Seems that the way I'm running it now, I don't have any sound at all, no bubbles in the sump at all and running it on full power.
If this really maintains, then I'm a very very happy man. One downside currently is that I have the tank filled up to maximimum, but that can be changed by adjusting the height of the water-inlet (in the overflow box).
I noticed that the art of getting no suction of air down in the drain is to add more syphon-tubes. As you can see from the pictures, I'm running 4 tubes. 2x 1inch and 2x 0.5inch. These are enough that the drain is under water while there's no issue with that because of the second drain being fully open and catching any extra water that goes down in a trickle.
Both scenario's of over capacity and of shut-down/restart are thus safe.
No toilet sounds and no bubbles, so no CO2 loss.
I've connected the CO2 again, still running sweet, no bubbles at all from the outlet in the tank that I can see, (start to doubt if there's no leak somewhere lol.)
The last picture is of the sump where the water comes in from above!
That's a 1 inch hose draining down there at full throttle and hardly and movement of the water. With those two pumps at 2800 Liter p/hour each, there's some serious water-movement without sound.
Happy man here...cheers.
Rbishop
03-09-2009, 4:07 AM
Nice!
Nolapete
03-09-2009, 5:09 AM
Looks very cool.
I'd call it official. Have it running for 2 days now and no problems. Yesterday I lowered the water-intake in the overflow. Made for a half inch lower level in the display-tank which I really like.
The waterflow in the tank is great, from all corners nicely going to the middle.
Noticed that with the lower water-intake it's also easier to adjust the water level and ensure that everything is 100% under water meaning that it is silent. There's a 10 Gallon QT-tank next to it and the very small HOB-filter makes awful lot of noise when you try to hear if there's any sound from the 99.
Silence has also killed off any turbulence and cavitation. So I'm not worried about any CO2 loss anymore as well. My guess is that I can reach an almost 100% CO2 dissolved, no loss in the process and thus save substantially in time before a bottle is empty.
I've got a bunch of guppies and 2 angels in there right now, and it looks like I've got to think about adding a small airstone at night to make sure they don't run out of oxygen.
Everything is holding up nicely, think I'm gonna pop open the canisters on the 79G and get the filter seeded to kickstart the bacteria.
The other thing I will start is the hood and electricity. Might be a couple of weeks, once done, the next step will be to try some colors of gravel.
I can't wait to see it finished! Don't forget to post some pics of the 79g along the way!
Thanks for your compliment BoCoMo.
I hear you, did a water-change on the 79 tonight. It's growing like crazy and I'm starting to feel the pressure for doing something about the plants.
But I'm still holding out on that because I'd like to pull out everything and clean and split it out with the 99.
See if I can last another 2 - 3 weeks to get light on the 99.
Playing with some thoughts on the 79 and how to continue with that one. But count on it that you'll see a separate thread on that one once the 99 is fully up and running.
Pretty sure that one will get a sump as well, but only after the 99 is getting up to speed. Might even get another concrete background but very likely towards a specific biotope with only the plants and fish belonging to it.
Nolapete
03-12-2009, 10:11 AM
Congrats!!!
Thanks Pete, can't wait to see your tank coming off the ground.
Found some room for improvement in the syphon-breaks, gonna play with that a bit.
To avoid snails and rubbish getting in those breaks, I want to have them in an area with minimal rubbish and under water at the same time. (There are airbubbles getting into the outlets of the returns, which again, I don't like as being 'artificial').
By putting the breaks way in front, just before the return-lines dive down to the pumps and connecting all 3 with a common airline that goes into the overflow, I think that I can stop those bubbles and at the same time have it pretty much fool proof (put some sponge over that tube-inlet as well. No more worries on loosing water. There's no problem with getting too much in the sump, the emergency drain works flawless, but starting up after that the system runs on a much lower level which I don't want of course.
Will update on this once I've tried some.
Still enjoying the sump and how silent it is. Pumps are doing a nice job as well, minimal vibration and no sound. Will drop some review soon. Resun 6000 pumps fyi (as mentioned way back in the beginning of this thread.
Cheers.
Well, finished the necessary parts on the filtration.
- Added water-change line
- Seeded the filter with Bioballs from one of the canister-filters
- Brought down the level of the display-tank and it's stable.
- Changed the syphon-breakers from the bottom of the return-lines (prone to snail/rubbish block) to the top with a piece of airline-tube to a snail-safe spot.
Room for improvement, but that can wait for later. The sump is running and seems to do a great job on getting crysal clear water back up.
Aside from a very soft and low hum from the pumps, there's no splashing or any other sound.
What else done this weekend? I wanted to get some light on top for the time being to see how it will look like. So I cleaned the old hood, put in 3 lights and just placed that one on top.
Turns out great, as I'd imagined it from the start. So quit the talking, here's some pictures (I've taken some without flash that give a better impression on how it really looks with colors):
I've put again some pictures in of the sump. The water-movement at the intake (you can see the outlet of the pipes) is 100% without cavitation and therefore CO2 loss should be close to zero except for the normal surface-water exchange.
The other note, in the pictures without flash you might notice the water in the equipment-sump (left side) to be very clear.
I'm still playing with the idea to put some kind of section in there that would hold additional filter-materials or just carbon when necessary...Currently I'm at roughly 9 gallon of pure filter-material, compared to maybe 2.5 gallon on the 2 canisters on the 79. Big improvement, expecting to see some very happy discus in there once the hood and substrate is done.
I've started putting in some groundwork for the electricity. This weekend at least I hope to have the mains connected and into the cabinet with a mains-splitter.
Then slowly start to work on the hood, which will add a maximum of 1.5 ~ 2 inch on top of the white wooden frame.
Cabling will be sandwiched between top and bottom. Top will be glued, bottom will be screws with a rubber seal to avoid water getting inside.
Cheers..
Luc
Nolapete
03-17-2009, 12:46 AM
Looks great Luc. Far too many contraptions for me. I say that as I look at the plumbing for the 55 gallon wet/dry on the 210 in front of my desk. Great that you have fish in it now to really put it to the test.
I'm with you there, it was puzzling with space, that's all there is to it. The goal counts though and I'm still on track.
The two angels came out of my pond, they really seem to enjoy it and are going through all corners of the tank.
Another thing I noticed and which I feared a bit was how the waterflow might affect the plants swaying in it. So far, not too much trouble with that.
Rbishop
03-17-2009, 4:27 AM
Looks great! Nice to see some fishies in it!
Fish are doing ok so far. Everything running, dry, silent and good.
I'm looking for some opinions for the substrate in terms of color and size.
Now before we start off, I've never used anything else than run of the mill gravel.
For me food for the plants comes in by capsules and liquid media. Worked well so far and not eager to change for the sake of cost.
I have two buckets of older substrate from previous setups:
1. A pale red/brown, 3-5mm diameter, round shape
2. A light colored brown/white, 1 - 3mm, gravel, irregular shaped
Plan to put both in the tank tomorrow, next to each other and then see what you guys (and my good self) think.
From what I've seen before, option 1 gives a very nice look against a black background, but not too sure because my background now is a brown/red concrete setting.
I could go to a dark-grey round shape or even a beach-sand white.
Appreciate your comments and advise on that. Might give me very different ideas.
Done some today and want to have some votes on light or dark as well as opinion on CC-Lights or normal T8..
I've got pictures but before we start with that I've moved the current lights a bit to the left.
- In that hood, there is a 36W, an 18W (both T8) and a 60W clear bulb (old style philips bulb).
That's a total of 114 Watt.
- On the right side, (the 8 inch wide wood box) there is a set of 16 CCFL tubes (Cold Cathode from scanners, see my thread on that one for details and pictures).
Not sure how much the total power-draw on that one is, but sure as hell, it blasts everything out of the water with light.
That little box does not generate heat! And obviously it can reach the bottom as well.
But I disgress. What I've done as well is..put a couple of plants in and the 2 types of gravel that I mentioned in my previous post.
So now, can I have the votes please on the substrate. Left or Right? Light or Dark?
The pictures where taken without flash btw. On a camera-stand, both with 2 Seconds timer to avoid shaking.
ChrisK
03-22-2009, 10:00 AM
Looks awesome
Rbishop
03-22-2009, 10:07 AM
I like the pale red/brown. And the lighting on the left for me.
Nolapete
03-22-2009, 10:31 AM
looking good Luc
prolude006
03-22-2009, 12:33 PM
darker substrate with that background for sure and the light on the left is better.
The cold cathode tubes are too much, not sure what they would have for effects on the fish.
Mindcrime121
03-22-2009, 8:21 PM
I agree about the lighting, but have you considered a mix on the substrates perhaps? The red/brown is almost an exact matchup to the walls which is good if you don't want a notably visible break between the two, and the whitish just seems a little too drastic contrast for my taste, but a less drastic contrast by mixing the two might look nice.
Thanks all for the input.
Mindcrime, I was indeed thinking of mixing in 10 to 20% of light color. You can't see it the picture very well, but there's some of it from old setups in there. Looks indeed very nice, so likely it will be red with some light spots in it.
Quite sure that the verdict on the gravel is out.
As for the light, the CCFL's are overkill at the moment for sure.
Will take some pictures with only 8 out of 16 switched on.
The main reason for trying them for me is heat and space. If I see good plantgrowth on it then it will be put into proper arrays (like cut 4 inch PVC pipes with or some other high reflective background.
It's too concentrated, making it look worse than it really is.
Anyhow, that's for the coming weeks.
Thanks all for the input and compliments..appreciate.
Cheers,
Luc
Been a while, so just a quick message. Still here and working on it.
Things got a bit slow over the last few weeks, but done some work and will make pictures this weekend of it.
Chiller has been installed. See my old thread of the chiller for more details.
- I've removed the fridge-casing.
- Put all on a temporary stand
- Bend the cooling-tube into position so that its now in its water-compartment next to the pumps
- Put a temporary fan on it for now.
- It runs nicely, bringing down the temperature by 3 - 5 degrees (Celcius) which is exactly what I need. It's blazing hot right now, going up 39'C with very high humidity.
So with the temperature between 28 & 30 Celcius, I'm happy and the fish are happy with it as well.
Also started on the hood. Basically 1 cm wood frame with 2mm plywood top and bottom. Part of the bottom will be screws only to access cables if necessary, but I plan to have all service-parts inside the electricity cabinet (starters/ballast/switches etc)
Hood will then be painted high-gloss white on the inside with some clear coats for extra reflection. Not decided yet on how many tubes, but I guess its going to be 7 T8's.
Sump is doing a great job and returns very clear water back to the tank.
Initially I had a lot of brown algea build-up, but that is now breaking down and ceramic rings are starting to get back to their white color. Seems they're catching up nicely with the rubbish.
Pumps where a good choice it seems, even with all the 90' turns and twists, they're having some over-capacity that I'm running back into the sump.
Love it so far, no regrets on anything and getting 'orders' from people to make them something like it.
Cheers, pictures hopefully tomorrow.
Luc
Wow, pictures tomorrow became 8 months later.
Had a very busy time, hardly any time to do much on this project.
However, have started it up again and with about 3 months of running, I found quite some problems that I wanted to change.
Problems I found:
- Return Lines cause quite some restrictions
- Dirt building up in the lines can not easily be cleaned
- The amount of 90' turns in the lines and the setup made it difficult to balance water between the 4 returns.
- The CO2 reactor was building up dirt as well.
- Concrete slowly dissolving into the water.
Have started to address all those problems and tank has been dry now for about 4 months. Hope to have the epoxy soon to seal the concrete background.
Will post some pictures soon on changes made.
odinthejd
12-19-2009, 12:05 AM
quite nice!
Thanks for the compliment. Getting all juiced up again with every bit of work done.
Changed all the return-lines to PVC Tubes 1". So instead of having all the 90' corners, I have no corners at all anymore except at the final outlets in the tank.
It also makes for easy maintenance, since these tubes are easy to disconnect and clean.
I've also changed the pipes right after the pumps, it's now much more optimized with all lines having same distance and angles, with water making 45' turns only.
Very curious to see it running again and the improvement it will make on throughput.
Well, tomorrow never comes it seems. Pictures are due...
I finally got hold of a epoxy-shop, so with a couple of days off during the new year, I managed to put it all together and had my background sealed.
Very happy with the results, first layer I discovered quite some thin patches of concrete. Epoxy went right through it.
So after mixing some new concrete and patching up those places, next layer of expoxy but this time mixed with sand for better looks.
Next morning, I had a last patch up of some small spots and the last layer of epoxy which is now curing.
Not sure how long it will take curing, but everything is touch-dry with only a very light 'tacky feel' to it after about 20 hours.
Looks great, the 'reddish' color of the concrete turned brown with the epoxy coating.
Hope to have it dry today, then refill everything and test-running it.
So the very early comment of Bob Bishop is now followed up.
Hood and electric part will still take quite some time to shape up, but there's movement..getting all excited again on seeing this one through.
And ok, as promised, some pictures of where I am now.
I've finished the epoxy. Still drying, don't know how long it will take, but lets see.
Pictures of the background, the new water return-lines and the new pump connections to those lines.
If you compare the connections with the pumps and the return lines with earlier pictures, then I think you'll notice that this looks much cleaner and easier for water flow.
As said, waiting for the epoxy to dry and then get pumping.
Cheers,
Luc
Wow, that's some awesome plumbing you got there!
Thanks for the comment Mott.
Did some water-testing yesterday. Found that one of the valves is leaking....sigh
Need to change that one and re-do some connections.
Don't have rubber O-rings available, but normally that is solved with silicone. Found some of them leaking this time however. Not too much work, only a nuisance to redo it.
The epoxy sure takes its time to fully dry. Just want to top it off and see it full glory under water...
Rbishop
01-07-2010, 4:02 AM
Nice update! Not sure what is worse...watching epoxy dry or the removing silicone on a re-seal job.
Thanks for the comment Bob,
Mmmh...Not sure on which is worse as well. The end-results are both satisfying though...
If only the temperature would come up a bit as it should during this time of the year over here...sigh..still waiting...fill up maybe tonight if it is dry...
CWO4GUNNER
01-07-2010, 6:50 PM
Wow, you sure can build one heck of a 3D background. The pluming is definitely a labor of commitment and dedication, something I certainly don't have to that degree. Truly the result of attention to detail and excellence, congrats.
Thanks for the compliment Gunner. It's not that difficult, you only need to get started on it and let it shape itself. Foam, silicone, mortar and the epoxy to seal it is all you need.
For the next project, I likely go with a gray colored rock/slate type of background to have plants really jump out.
As for the plumbing, I used another project as the basis which I modified to what it is now. First trial was with fixed pipes everywhere, which (I think, can't confirm before fully tested again with water) slowed down the water quite a bit. What I am sure of is that this new setup with flexible and clear hose will not have any buildup of waste in the lines. If any, then it's also easy to spot.
Does anybody here have ideas on how long the epoxy can take to dry?
I need some help!!!
I finally got my epoxy done. It's hard as glass and not tacky or anything anymore.
Now, after filling up with water, it slowly turns white....sigh.
Emptying the tank, and the epoxy turns clear again.
Just wondering, what type of epoxy did any of you use?
Do you have specificatons on type and hardener used?
Epoxy I'm using is PC600 with 0.5% hardener and 0.03% Cobalt (Accelerator)...
I bought it in a specialized shop that only deals with Epoxy's and other coatings.
Explained the purpose and everything and he recommended me this one.
It has short drying time, takes about 15 minutes after adding the hardener to becoming gel and not able to use any more.
Hope anyone can enlighten me on the epoxy used....
Thanks all, desperate on that.
Will also get back to that shop and ask, but might be easier if I get some names/types of epoxy first.
Sidenote, the system with changes in piping to tubes is giving me so much power, I have to throttle both pumps back to about 50%. (with the T just after the pumps).
So improved waterflow and better flexibility.
Still fairly easy to tune the system to a complete silent operation except for a bit of pump-'humming'..
Ok, regarding epoxy.
Called the supplier. He made a mistake / misunderstood. (thai to english and back is difficult if not impossible at times)
The coating I have is PC, polyester resin. Initially he went on to say that 1 top-coat of epoxy should do the trick.
After 5 minutes he called again to explain that he called with a colleague who specialized in aquariums and using epoxy for that.
So instead of coming back to him, he asked me to have a talk with that guy to get the best result. No panick yet, the PC dried out nicely and should be ok to topcoat...
Still hope to get some advise from everybody reading this.
Cheers,
Luc
Not many comments or advise...but after having a busy time with work, I've picked up again on it.
Found out that if I scrub the PC-layer with a normal stiff brush, (like polishing it), then it stays clear, so I'm now scrubbing and brushing everything. Not as easy as having the right stuff on it straight away, but better than waiting.
The renewed clear-tube and water-distribution works great. Lowered the overflow a bit so that I can get higher flow and it runs sweet. No noise, no air coming into the sump with the over flow lines.
Hope to get the background finished scrubbing tomorrow and start finally on the electric side.
Rbishop
03-27-2010, 6:09 AM
Any update with some pics..? :grinno:
Hello Bob, bit late, but finally got around taking some pic's.
Did not do anything on the background except the polishing/scrubbing. Turned out to a very nice effect, attached some pictures of it all.
Finally managed to get the top done and attached that as well.
Next step will be to put the wiring in place. Painted the first piece of wood just now and then I can start guiding all the wires.
Plan is to have that all done 'out of sight', meaning that only the components itself (ballast and stuff), will be visible. Wires all sandwiched between panels.
The hood has been done the same way. Just the caps visible, rest is in between the wood panels.
As mentioned before, no shiny background, only plain white gloss paint.
Works like hell, and with 6x40w T8's, I'm getting at a nice 240 Watt, 2.4 Watt/gallon.
The filter is up and running, went through a nice cycle.
1. Nice and clean
2. Algae bloom so big that I couldn't see the background anymore. (lasted for about 8-10 days).
3. Did 3x 50% water changes during that bloom.
4. Suddenly, almost overnight, the algae disappeared and the water is crystal clear.
Will only have to take the hoses off one of these days to clear out the film, but that's why I am happy to have those hoses and not the fixed pvc-lines anymore. So easy to clean or just replace for a couple of $$.
Anyhow, also some pictures of the water-system, not full with filter-media yet, but soon getting to that stage when the lights are done.
Seems my pictures are not there in my previous message?
Or something wrong over here.
Well, post them again, if they're double, moderator please remove them.
Thanks...
cockroach
04-29-2010, 5:00 AM
A beautiful, well thought out, neat setup. This makes me want to start playing with a tank again.
Thanks for your compliment Cockroach2...hope you'll get down to business on a tank soon. Look forward to see some pictures of it.
I've gone down to a pretty slow speed on this one, busy with work and family, but it's fun to get it all together.
2 day weekend coming, so hope to get lights on and some other electricity work done.
Cheers...
Long time since my last post. Many things changed or caused problems.
So I finally got around to dismantling the 2 tanks, put a solid concrete base and metal stand with CementWood covers. Bye Bye Termites, hello happiness....
Anyhow, tank is up and running, full speed and perfectly balanced.
Will start doing the electrical work on the hood and other stuff soon, but I'm very happy with the progress so far.
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The stand will house both tanks, large sump below and canister-filters for the second tank.
Changed the overflow, too little throughput there. Took out the old 'teeth' and replaced it with a glass corner with the teeth lengthwise for lowest resistance for water. Must say, it's a 10 fold improvement in flow-through.
Syphon-breaks are done, working better than before as well, almost immediate breaking up the syphon.
The sump is the same as before, overflow and water-top up done.
Next will be connecting the light, washing the sand/gravel and go shopping for plants. CO2 will be another one.