Dojo eating my shrimp??

[madfox]

Could it be? I've got a good sized Dojo that I bought years and years ago, when it was a cute little string of a fish. Now it's about 7 inches. I planted my tank, and the algae was winning the nutrient war, so I got shrimp. I could only afford 6 Cherry shrimp, and my friend got me 13 ghost. My algae started to disappear like magic!! Hooray! Only, now I haven't seen a single Cherry in days, and I seem to only have a couple of ghosts left, and the algae is getting free reign again. One of the ghosts is 1 1/4", and no one seems to bother him. Do I just need to grow my shrimp up a bit before releasing them?? Or should I stop kidding myself and get the big Amanos?

So, could it be that Lao Tzu (my loach) is eating my shrimp? He's leaving his other tank mates alone - a dozen Zebra Danios. My friend thinks the Danios could be doing it, but please!! Their mouths are too darn small!!

And how long do these loaches live, anyway? I've had him for... geez... seven, eight years? He's outlived every fish I've had in with him, and there have been some BIG fish he's lived with! And another Dojo, too (Confusius, but he disappeared years ago. I suspect he escaped and then met his death at the paws of a cat, 'cuz we never saw hide nor scale of him!!!)

So, what do you think?

Also, anyone else's dojo spook the heck out of them when you've got your hand in the tank working with plants and such? Geez, if he doesn't make me jump at least a dozen times every time I have to fiddle with something!! He'll come right up to my hand with his barbels and mouth!! Oh, creepy feeling!! Funny, but weird!!

[paperdragon]

Yeah, I would place the dojo as the prime suspect. He might be picking them off when they molt.
Dojo's can live up to about 15 years from what I've read. And yeah, they like investigating anything that comes into their tank, including hands. :)

[Philosophos]

I wouldn't put it past them. I once watched 4 dojo loach consume about $75 worth of apple snails (big ones at $5 each), clearing through them at an incredible rate. I would've said something, but it was a chain store that seemed to leave half of their animals suffer anyhow. I've also seen threads about simmilar concerns for shrimp with simmilar species of loach. Nothing confirmed though. I can't say I've ever known danios to eat shrimp or other inverts. If they aren't hiding, then my money is on the dojo loach.

[jpappy789]

Loaches are incredibly crafty and inverts are their natural diet...would be my top suspect.

[Lupin]

I wouldn't put it past them. I once watched 4 dojo loach consume about $75 worth of apple snails (big ones at $5 each), clearing through them at an incredible rate. I would've said something, but it was a chain store that seemed to leave half of their animals suffer anyhow. I've also seen threads about simmilar concerns for shrimp with simmilar species of loach. Nothing confirmed though. I can't say I've ever known danios to eat shrimp or other inverts. If they aren't hiding, then my money is on the dojo loach.
Dojos eat snails? Very interesting. How big are both the snails and dojos exactly? What species are these apple snails? Any pics to verify this if you've actually seen them eat? What else were in the tank? I have never seen dojos eating snails. I have one with my canas from hatchlings to adults and the dojo itself is 5 inches in length. If you look at the mouth structure, I doubt a weather loach would pry off the operculum of a healthy apple snail. They do not even bite the antennaes, let alone pry off a snail out of its shell with the kind of mouth structure they have. Are you sure the apple snails aren't just stressed out and the dojos simply pick them while their operculums are open? Are you sure the chain store simply did not starve both the snails and the dojos that the snails eventually weakened thus allowing the dojos access to the body?

I'm sorry but anything about dojos being the suspects when it comes to snails especially where the operculums are concerned is bunk. They cannot even drill through the shell or the operculum. Shrimps are another story. With botiine loaches, it is another story but the serpentine ones such as kuhlis, I doubt it. Unless you mistook another loach for a dojo, unless there is a photo offered that such scenario actually happened which there hasn't been, I doubt it.

[Philosophos]

Nice long rant there. I offered my experience, I did not say that all dojo loach eat all snails all of the time. I did not say that dojo loach are well known snail eaters, that it was typical of them, etc. I offered my anecdotal evidence of one event. This contrasts with my experience of never having heard of danios eating live shrimp of their own approximate size, or snails. From my experience then, I draw the conclusion that they are more likely. I did not claim expertese, a tautology of any sort, or a common pattern of behaviour.

That being said, I am sure they were kuhli loach. They were labled as such, and I have no problem identifying them. I did not take the time to identify the snail, but their heads were in the shells of some ,and others were picking at the antanae of others when they popped out. They were the only tank mates to the snails.

As for your operculum comment, I noticed you said, "healthy snail." This pet store is not one I have set foot in since that day because everything in it was far from healthy. The snails were in bare glass bottom tanks, and disease was running around a shared system. The operculum could well have been defeated by soft/acidic water and/or a lack of caco3 in the diet.

My intent was more or less to provide my own experience that P. kuhlii will eat live inverts given the opportunity and circumstances. Not that they're voracious killers of large healthy snails.

[Lupin]

It's not really a rant. It's a discussion. The possibility about dojos and snails being together has been a long standing issue and there have been many fallacies produced that people just blame the dojos straight away for what they did. Your comments will still affect the long standing issue regardless of your experience.

I see now what you mean. If the snails were not healthy at all, then the loaches whichever they are, were sure to penetrate through and if they were already starved half to death by the store, they just couldn't pass the opportunity to eat a weak snail who cannot close its operculum quickly on instinct.

[Dwarf Puffers]

Anything will eat anything if given the oppertunity

[Philosophos]

Sorry, fart of the brain when typing that first post and I said dojo when I meant kuhli. It was kuhli loach, but they were about dojo size (4 inch). Same family, similar eating habits; figured the comparison was valid. I didn't realise it was a touchy subject either, though I've always kept botia. Needless to say, I have no snail problems; I welcome the odd invasion from eggs hitching on plants for the 33g.

I'm not sure anything will eat anything given the opertunity. I've seen some slow moving, rotund and rather well marinated people in jogging suits pass by dark alleys. While I admit it was tempting, I can't say that I indulged.

If you meant the right circumstances, I somewhat agree. Goonch seem to be eating people these days. Really, most catfish are scavengers, and cobitidae are not an exception. I have yet to see scavengers that will pass up a slow moving, easily had meal.