wonky pH, bad ammonia ???

cellodaisy

cellodaisy

AC Members
Jan 11, 2009
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Cincinnati OH 45219
meganstrickland.com
I'm trying to cycle a 10g and a 5g without fish. Started yesterday and got wonky test readings tonight. I tested my main tank and straight tap water as well, for comparison.

tap water
pH: 8.0

10g (empty w/seeded filter media)
ammonia: .25
pH: alkaline off the charts

5g(empty w/seeded filter media)
ammonia: .5
pH: alkaline off the charts

main tank (30g)
ammonia: 0 (as always)
pH: 6.5

(No nitrite or nitrate readings, sorry. The tests are ordered and should be here tomorrow.)

So my question is basically... WTF? :confused:

Why is the main tank pH dropping? Why are the other two skyrocketing?

Not sure if any of this matters, but the main tank has:
> 25 gallons of water @ 75*F
> 1 very small (~2.5") water turtle
> 4 feeder guppies
> Aquaclear 70
> 1 basking rock (found, looks like slate to me)
> 2 pieces of a broken terra cotta pot (purchased new for the aquarium---I just dropped it)
> plastic aquarium plants
> 2 foot-long hardwood branches (boiled for several hours before being added)
> 1 plastic elasmosaurus. It's my favorite dinosaur. What? Don't you have a favorite dinosaur? I know now that plastic toys + aquarium = risky, but by the time I learned that it had been in there for quite a while without problems so I didn't bother taking it out.
> 1 very sad java fern. It was sad when I bought it from my LFS, I just didn't realize how bad until I got it home. I think it is improving, but it's hard to tell.

The wood is a fairly recent addition and I've read that it can cause the pH to lower but I thought it was only a very slight effect. I have some cuttlebone---basically a calcium block---that I'd like to put in the tank anyway for the turtle to chew on. Would that help buffer the tank and keep it from getting so acidic?

I also just realized that the ammonia I bought is not pure ammonia---it has "surfactant" in it---and from what I've read in other fora it looks like I'll have to completely empty and scrub the 10g and 5g... AGAIN. I'm really bummed out because I just did that and it was several hours of work that left me soaking wet with an aching back and now it's all ruined. :(

GAAAAAGH!!!
 
your readings will be wonky while your tanks are cycling, you can aid along the cycling process by squeezing some of your cycled tank media into the cycling tanks to add the bacteria to give it a head start.
 
I seeded the new tanks' media by running them in my main tank for several days. I know that ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings are all over the place when cycling, especially when you start with seeded media, but I haven't seen anything about the pH shooting up.

I also can't figure out why the main tank pH would be shooting down.
 
For cycling fluctuations are normal...PH is affected by several things...buffers inside of objects you add to a tank.. Wood ..Rocks... Even some decorations do it. The air exchange on the surface water can drive PH.

But its more than likely in your display that wood has something in it thats soaking into your tank and causing a PH down affect.

Phosphate removers are known also to drive PH down in initial break in of things like Phosguard..Rophos..just fyi

The main display is a concern...since rapid PH changes will kill... pull the wood out. Do a water change 50% id say...and see how things are in a day or two.

Also PH readings are best taken at the end of a Photo cycle vs morning time before lights on.

Its gota be the wood dude... Find a LFS with Bogwood and pick some out of a tank that already has it established =)

The bad thing with adding your own wood is you have no idea whats inside it chemically..besides parasites out there. Or fungus.
Plus the tanen in wood can discolor a tank fast...some people like it..I sure didnt though. Im sure my Plecos didnt give a crud =)

I would like to suggest when setting up a new tank... Prime and Stabillity were products ive used in several start ups. Try that stuff out in the initial set up. Prime a great conditioner...and stabillity for your bio.
 
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My wood did a lot of tannin leaching in my invert tank, i didnt need a lower ph in there so increased the volume of water changes, the leeching has slowed down a lot, and i also added crushed coral and oyster shell as a buffer.
 
If coral and oyster shell work as buffers, I'm betting cuttlebone will too. It's literally bone material from cuttlefish.

From Wikipedia: "Cuttlebone, also known as cuttlefish bone, is a hard, brittle internal structure found in all members of the family Sepiidae, commonly known as cuttlefish. Cuttlebone is composed primarily of calcium carbonate."

So the pH skyrocketing in the new tanks isn't a concern? I know I have to start over, I'm just wondering if I did some else wrong in addition to using bad ammonia. Again, no fish in either of them, I just want to get it right when I start over.
 
ToeJam - Wow, thank you! Somehow I did not see your post until just now. Great info. MUCH appreciated.

Unfortunately I have no good LFS options and wouldn't be inclined to trust wood from one of them any more than wood from outside. I picked up freshly downed branches----plenty of them since we had a huge ice storm---not anything rotted or under water. I boiled the wood for several hours and it has not leached tannins into the water. Sounds like some more boiling wouldn't hurt, though. I did put a bunch of cuttlebone in the tank. FWIW, the pH swing wasn't super fast. I've been watching it and it has taken about a week to go from 8 to 6.5. No signs of fish or turtle stress that I can detect. I do want to get it back up, but I don't think it's a crisis situation.
 
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