Empty 58, thinking abour oscars, have compatibility ?s

[HannahJ]

So I have a 58 gallon tank that is up and running and empty and just begging to be stocked. It's got a Fuval 304 for filtration, sand substrate, and decor consists of several large, heavy chunks of holey rock that would be difficult for even a large oscar to try and move. When we add fish we will also be seeding the filter heavily from our established tank, which should prevent cycling (and we will be monitoring with a chemical test kit to be sure).

First off, we are completely comfortable with the thought of buying or building a 100+ gallon aquarium in a year or even less, as required by growth, and are capable of doing so. So don't panic.

Anyways, we want to do oscars. Probably two (yes we're aware this could result in having to split them up later on, depending on our luck and the fish's temperments), one red and one tiger, as per our preferences (the tiger will be "mine" and I'm going to name him Richard Parker :)). We're going to be getting them as small as we can so we can fatten them up ourselves. =P

However, we're toying with the thought of getting some tank mates, and since I hear how oscars love to eat things, I imagine we ought to get them while everyone is still small, so they can grow together, and save ourselves the trouble of trying to find larger tankmates later. I'd love some experienced opinions as to the compatibility of our current ideas, as well as additional ideas anyone cares to throw out there.

Current tankmates we're considering:

-Some clown loaches (not sure if the decor is good, they'd probably outgrow the holey rock hidey holes pretty quickly and need some slate caves or something to be added; I've had them before though and I love em)
-A spiny eel (undecided on species, but the substrate is good and it would have fun in the holey rock)
-A pleco (probably rescued from my mother, who keeps getting commons for her 20gallon classroom tank--and this time when ger current one outgrows it, I'm replacing it with a bristlenose or clown pleco darnit)

Obviously, depending on what we decide to go with, it could bump forward the timetable on a larger tank. We're talking about buying all of these fish as small as possible, though, as I just love growing fish up. So, any experience with any of those and oscars? Or other suggestions? I should note that I'm not a huge cichlid fan apart from the oscars, so that's not really a direction I want to head.

Thanks!

[krytan]

If you want two oscars you will need to upgrade the tank to a 100g within the first six months and you won't be able to have any tank mates with them.
The minimum tank size for one oscar on it's own is 75g for two it's 100g with no other fish, if you want tank mates for them you'll need an even bigger tank.
You will want a bigger filter as well as oscars are very messy fish.

[HannahJ]

See, I ask a question about compatibility and get advice about tank size. As I said in the bold print in my post, we are completely fine buying or building a larger tank (and yes, that includes a larger filter) within a year or less as needed. I just threw a year out there, because that's what a lot of internet resources have said for a pair of oscars. I also said that tankmates could change the timetable.

This is a 58 gallon tank. I am talking two 1-2" fish, with maybe a few other 1-2" fish, or one 4" fish. I am not going to go run get a 100+ gallon tank just for that, especially not when I have an empty up-and-running tank available.

[krytan]

Yes but until we know what size tank you intend on getting it is next to impossible to recommend tank mates for them.
Eels and clown loaches are not compatiable with oscars but larger plecos are and so are other large SA/CA cichlids.
Well looked after oscars will grow 1-2" a month until they get to 8-10" then their growth will slow down so your 1-2" fish will need a upgrade in the fist six months.

[HannahJ]

Look, you're not being helpful when you don't even read my post. I have no idea what size tank I'll get or build. It will be over 100 gallons. 125? 150? Who knows? If I build it it'll probably be around 150 gallon, but if I find one cheap that's smaller, I'll buy and use it. And we're talking 100+ gallons either way, saying that makes it "next to impossible" doesn't make much sense.

I also said I don't care for cichlids, and so that wasn't something I wanted as a suggestion.

So, why would loaches an eels be inappropriate tankmates? I've seen loaches suggested as ideal tankmates on several places I've looked. Why wouldn't they work? As far as spiny eels go, the main thing I've seen is that they have trouble getting enough food with oscars in the tank, something which, if I was prepared for it, I could counter. Or are there other incompatibilities?

[krytan]

Sorry if you don't think i'm being helpful but the tank size is important and i did read your fist post and replied accordingly. If you only get a 100g tank you can't have any tank mates for your two oscars, if you end up with a 150g tank you can have some other fish but there isn't much you can put with oscars apart from plecos and other cichlids.
Clown loaches need to kept in groups of 5 or more fish and should not be kept in tanks under 180g they are also far to timid to be kept with oscars. Eels will have trouble getting any food with oscars in the tank and may even be seen as food.
If you end up with a tank bigger than 100g i would put the common pleco you already have with then as a 55g tank is to small for common plecos.

[HannahJ]

Okay, since you keep editing your post with more size info, the whole reason why I put that bold line in the first post was to keep this thread about compatibility, not tank size. It appears to have failed. Look, I can get a bigger tank. I just said a year because that was my guess based off of my research to date. If it's six months, that is also fine--if not better, since that will be my summer break and I'll have all the free time in the world to build a tank instead of buying one.

And you're exaggerating a bit with your numbers. Almost everywhere I've seen quotes 1" per month, not 2", and as I'm not going to be stuffing these guys with beefheart 4x daily, I think it's safe to assume it will go that way for me too. And I've seen more websites quote 50-60 gallons per full grown oscar over 75 gallons.

So, can we move on and talk compatibility please?

[HannahJ]

Okay, I'm calling bs on your numbers. Clown loaches don't need 180 gallons. 150 would be more than enough, especially if the tank was long. And that's for fully grown ones. And I know how fast they grow, as I've had them before.

The two in the 55 gallon tank have their own tank upgrade coming. They were supposed to be getting a 75 g for Christmas, but the seller backed out last minute, so instead they get to wait until we're done building the turtle tank before we build them their new 100+ gallon tank. Should be in a month or two. They can wait that long, and as the pleco spends 22 hours out of the day under a piece of driftwood and the other two hours cruising within a foot of the driftwood for algae wafers and shrimp pellets, I really don't think he's suffering any. If I thought he was, I would be buying him a tank right now instead of waiting to build him one.

Look, to be honest, I think your attitude is poor. Yeah, I get that a lot of people overcrowd their tanks and underestimate growth rates, but I am not one of those people, so you can save your judgmental attitude. Quoting scare numbers at me while refusing to listen to anything I've said or acknowledge that I've been doing my homework is just a ****-poor way to do things.

[faun]

Ok if you don't like cichlids i have a few suggestions if you got a 125g you could have 2 oscars and a common pleco,200g you could have 2 oscars and probably fit in a giant gourami, 300g you could have 2 oscars and a silver arowana, or if you wanted to go really mad you could get a 450-500g and have 2 oscars and a pacu. All the tank size's i have quoted are educated guesses and would need more research on your part to make sure they are correct. The bigger the tank you get the more choice you have i would do some research on large semi aggressive fish and see what you like then choose tank size to fit around those fish.

[Lupin]

-Some clown loaches (not sure if the decor is good, they'd probably outgrow the holey rock hidey holes pretty quickly and need some slate caves or something to be added; I've had them before though and I love em)
Stick with slates. Most rocks with holes become too small for the clown loaches and these are prone to injuries especially when they struggle to get in and out of their hiding places. Driftwoods with no holes also make good hiding places.


-A spiny eel (undecided on species, but the substrate is good and it would have fun in the holey rock)
If you plan to get 100+ gallons, you might want a tire track eel or perhaps a bichir as an alternative. Bichirs are much better as these are less prone to attacks from oscars. Eels on the other hand cannot defend themselves easily.


So, why would loaches an eels be inappropriate tankmates? I've seen loaches suggested as ideal tankmates on several places I've looked. Why wouldn't they work? As far as spiny eels go, the main thing I've seen is that they have trouble getting enough food with oscars in the tank, something which, if I was prepared for it, I could counter. Or are there other incompatibilities?
Actually, if loaches are 6 inches and over, they stand a better chance avoiding predation especially when your tank is spacious with plenty of hiding places. If money is no object, start with the 6-inch ones. MFK always has them sold around so MFK is your best bet for deals. With smaller ones though, the risk of being eaten once the oscar reaches 10 inches and over is there. Just something you want to watch out for.

A lot of spiny eels are quite fussy with foods. They prefer live foods and won't stand a chance any better with oscars unless they already learned to accept the dry goods in the first place. You'll have better luck with bichirs.


Clown loaches need to kept in groups of 5 or more fish and should not be kept in tanks under 180g they are also far to timid to be kept with oscars.
Krytan, I do not believe the 180g rule is applicable all the time. Why people keep suggesting 180g regardless of the size for clown loaches is beyond me. Hannah is not keeping her loaches permanently or irresponsibly in less than 100g tanks so let's not make the tank size an issue otherwise she would never have asked us in the first place for queries nor share what is in store for her fish.

A 75g minimum should suffice temporarily for clown loaches 6 inches and below. Some people may have been lucky to find their clowns grow quicker than most but this is not the norm at all. It takes several years to a decade for them to reach full grown size. Even then, full grown size is seldom accomplished despite a lot of people's efforts to give them the best tank conditions possible.

[HannahJ]

Yeah, we're probably not going to go with clown loaches. I've just been toying with the idea because I remember how much fun the ones I had were. But I like the decor how it is now, and my boyfriend's not as enamored with the loaches as I am. Maybe if we ever do a large community tank down the road....

We are thinking about the spiny eel pretty seriously, though. He likes fire eels the best, based on appearance, but the fact that they are the largest of the spiny eels makes me pause. I want to keep this tank in the 100s long term (this also rules out the arowana suggestion unfortunately), so I'm seeing what other variants of eel are out there. Bichirs are an alternative I hadn't considered that I'll have to look into.

And the pleco is probably going to happen either way, because my mom's is going to outgrow her tank sooner or later (probably sooner) and being the good daughter I am I'm sure I'll take it off her hands (even though this will be the second one, grr).

[Lupin]

I did see a fire eel at estimated 3 feet in length in a local aquarium exhibit. Definitely very large which is why I didn't suggest it in the first place and went for tiretrack eel instead. If you want bichirs, be careful with what you choose. Some species can chomp down unusually large prey such as the Polypterus ornatipinnis.

[ChrisK]

I've had luck with silver dollars with mine. Those along with a pleco and maybe jack dempsey or severum would be nice if you add at the same time and (as you said you would) upgrade very soon. Krytan is right the oscars will be to big for your 58 in no time. I bought my tiger and albino tiger oscar in mid september, at 1.5 inches each. The tiger is no "7" and the albino tiger is now "9" inches. Hope this helps :)

[jenpen737]

hi,
I just wanted to tell you about all the fun we are having with our peacock eel lol. When we got him (lord warwick) he was being fed feeder guppies. Feeders are ok if you are able to breed your own fast enough. Our eel eats three a day. You can buy them but they you risk disease in your tank. Some people are able to get theirs off guppies. we have tried everything with no luck. They are amazing and fun fish but can be tricky. Also you will have to eel proof your tank as they like to climb out. Our eel is in with an oscar and we are having no problems. I just thought i would pass that along. good luck with everything

[gspille]

The silver dollars or gold TFB's would look real cool, and give your tank nice movement and activity. Maybe 3 or so of them with a nice pleco and your two oscars.

[krytan]

Sorry if you think my attitude is poor hannah but i feel the information i gave is accurate (apart for the clown loach tank size).
My oscars have grown between 1-2" a month and i only feed them once a day five days a week. My first oscar went from 1" to nearly 8" in less than six months. I also believe 75g is the minimum for one oscar because of the size oscars grow to, a 14-16" needs a tank it can turn around in comfortably.
Stocking a oscar tank with fish that aren't cichlids can be hard to do because all oscars are different. I also don't think you will have to separate your oscars if you get them small and let them grow up together.

I think a bichir is a great suggestion, very fun fish to watch.
I know you don't want any other cichlids but i would like to suggest an electric blue jack dempsey, very colourful fish and they get on really well with oscars.


I've had luck with silver dollars with mine. Those along with a pleco and maybe jack dempsey or severum would be nice if you add at the same time and (as you said you would) upgrade very soon. Krytan is right the oscars will be to big for your 58 in no time. I bought my tiger and albino tiger oscar in mid september, at 1.5 inches each. The tiger is no "7" and the albino tiger is now "9" inches. Hope this helps :)
Silevr dollars would look nice not a recommended mix though but i have a knifefish with my oscar which isn't a recommended mix either (i only put him in there when i had to separate my oscars to stop them ripping each other apart). It really comes down to the personality of the oscar.


The silver dollars or gold TFB's would look real cool, and give your tank nice movement and activity. Maybe 3 or so of them with a nice pleco and your two oscars.
Tin foil barbs would make a nice addition but for a shoal of them and the oscars the tank would have to be huge.

[excuzzzeme]

With my Oscars I have:

Oscar-1> Pink convict, common plec.
Oscar-2> 3-6"Borleyi (Kadango), 1-5" Gibby Plec, 1-6"Silver Dollar, 2-Zebra Convicts

Sounds like an odd list of tankmates but it works for me. Silver Dollars are too fast for an Oscar to catch (most of the time), The Borleyi are peaceful cichlids, and the gibbiceps Plec only comes out at night and spends the rest of the time under a piece of driftwood.The cons are too small to mess with the others and were raised from fry with them, so there was no adjustment time needed.

[gspille]

Tin foil barbs would make a nice addition but for a shoal of them and the oscars the tank would have to be huge.[/quote]

In the past we had 3 gold TFB's for about 7 years, and they were great. They grew to be about 11 inches max. That's why I suggest the gold's. They don't seem to get as big as the regular TFB.