Emperors Vs Aquaclears [Archive]

JamisonBWolsh

12-16-2002, 2:34 PM

Haha! Beat ya to it! :)

Anyway, IMO the best setup would include the emp. 400 and the aquaclear 500.

AquaClear= Excellent Mechanical, problem is if you clean the sponges weekly, you destroy the good bacteria. If you clean them (assuming you have 2 sponges) on a rotation basis, then your nitrates will raise because of the buildup of crap in the older sponge.

Emperor= Excellent BIO and good mechanical. Clean the pads daily and it wont effect the good bacteria. Also reduces nitrates by elimanating the crap (when you clean the pad).

PS: In my emperors, I added the Bio-cartridge to add to the bacteria colonies.
400: works fine.
280: When I added the cartridge, the water overflowed the filter pad and over the cartridge as well. I had to reduce the flow somewhat to use the bio cartridge.

Bio-cartridge: something to add to your filter to increase surface space (LOTS) for the good bacteria to colonize. Some people here say the cartridges are easily breakable when washed. I never had this problem yet. Just handle it carefully, I guess. i could see if you drop it, it would break.

Elmo

12-16-2002, 2:43 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh

problem is if you clean the sponges weekly, you destroy the good bacteria. If you clean them (assuming you have 2 sponges) on a rotation basis, then your nitrates will raise because of the buildup of crap in the older sponge.

If you are rinsing out your sponges in old tank water, or dechlorinated tap water you will not kill off a significant number of bacteria.

JamisonBWolsh

12-16-2002, 2:55 PM

very true. But if you rinse them off under tap water....

ewok

12-16-2002, 3:39 PM

personally i have all emperor 400's and a couple other old ones, most of which i don't know the manufacturer of. i would like to try an aquaclear in the future though..... i think i would want it more for mechanical filtration and high volume. i like the bio-wheels for biological medium atm though.......

djlen

12-16-2002, 4:00 PM

Got to vote for ACs....I've had them for years and never had a problem with any of them. I've still have one that I've been using for 12 years!!
As to the question of rinsing....just use the tank water. You lose very little bacteria that way and it does an adequate job of cleaning the sponges.
Len

JSchmidt

12-16-2002, 4:13 PM

Personally, I think the dangers of rinsing sponges under tap water are grossly overstated. I think it would take a lot more prolonged exposure than a couple of minutes rinsing in chlorinated/chloriminated water to substantially kill off the bacterial population.

Of course, if you have only one undersized filter and/or a biofilter that's just barely keeping up with your bioload, that's another story. But if you have sufficient filtration a rinse of sponges or filter media in tap water shouldn't hurt.

Jim

Richer

12-16-2002, 4:14 PM

My thinking is, the less parts, the better.

My friend gave me an emporer 400 when she gave me her 70 gallon tank (yay!). I tried putting the thing together, but I found I was missing a few parts... that turned me off right there. The aquaclears have far less parts... all it has is basically the intake, the motor and the media basket. I've always had aquaclears on my tanks. From the smallest community tank (AC mini), to my monster arowana tank (2 AC500s with a UGF). They've never failed me, and I will continue to use them as long as they are made to the same quality they are made now. Another thing I like about ACs is the fact that they come in so many different sizes. It makes adding them more versitile imho, as they can work on many different sized tanks.
Although biowheels seem to provide pretty good biofiltration, I'm not a fan of them. I cannot stand the sound of splashing water. My aquaclears are almost silent (especially the larger ones). I just raise the water level to the lip of the filter and that virtually eliminates the noise of falling water.
Like I said, I've had ACs all my aquria life. I never had a problem with biofiltration when it came with these filters, whether it was a heavily stocked tank, or a lightly stocked one. IMHO, I don't need biowheels.

-Richer

JamisonBWolsh

12-16-2002, 4:31 PM

Whats all this about noise? I keep my tanks water level at the top. I have 1 emp. 400 and 1 emp. 280. I dont here a thing. No splashy water, no motor noise. If I press the lever down all the way, yes, the motor will make noise. But I normally use it at full power anyway= No noise. AND my 3 tanks are located 5 feet from my bed and sleep fine. The Filters are 1 year old and they work fine. I have a friend who has a emperor 400 for 8 years (since the northridge quake) and its still working great.

mechanic

12-16-2002, 5:13 PM

Hi! I voted for emporer.Simply because no matter how clean I keep the impellor on a aquaclear,they sometimes fail to restart after a power outage.And I'm not always home.I've never had that problem on a emporer.
Later Eric:)

vfrex

12-16-2002, 5:21 PM

I rinse sponges out in my weekly water changes. No nitrate problems. The gunk buildup on the sponge can suffocate bacteria from living on the sponge though. Although I agree with jschmidt partially, I must disagree to some extent. I heard that the bacteria can and will be killed off by large changes in temperature. If you go running the sponge under water significantly warmer or cooler than that of your tank water, you could lose a significant amount of bacteria in the sponge...

Slappy*McFish

12-16-2002, 7:15 PM

I always have rinsed my AC sponges "thoroughly" under hot tap water every time I clean them...been using this method for years with no decrease in the tanks bio capabilities. I even do this with my canister filters....however, this method isnt recommended for tanks that are cycling or are new with underdeveloped bacteria colonies. With mature tanks, there wont be any significant harm done to the tank's bacteria colonies, as a whole, from cleaning the filters under the tap. There are more than enough bacteria in the tank itself to support the bioload, granted there are places for bacteria to populate. This method may be questionable in bare tanks however.

TTman

12-16-2002, 7:20 PM

def emp400. heck I'll take a pengiun 330 over ANY aquaclear.

Darkangel

12-16-2002, 7:23 PM

I had to say AC as I have never had any of the others. My AC's have never failed me and I have had some for more then 10 years with no trouble.

fishbrain

12-17-2002, 2:28 AM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Haha! Beat ya to it! :)

Anyway, IMO the best setup would include the emp. 400 and the aquaclear 500.

AquaClear= Excellent Mechanical, problem is if you clean the sponges weekly, you destroy the good bacteria. If you clean them (assuming you have 2 sponges) on a rotation basis, then your nitrates will raise because of the buildup of crap in the older sponge.

Emperor= Excellent BIO and good mechanical. Clean the pads daily and it wont effect the good bacteria. Also reduces nitrates by elimanating the crap (when you clean the pad).

PS: In my emperors, I added the Bio-cartridge to add to the bacteria colonies.
400: works fine.
280: When I added the cartridge, the water overflowed the filter pad and over the cartridge as well. I had to reduce the flow somewhat to use the bio cartridge.

Bio-cartridge: something to add to your filter to increase surface space (LOTS) for the good bacteria to colonize. Some people here say the cartridges are easily breakable when washed. I never had this problem yet. Just handle it carefully, I guess. i could see if you drop it, it would break. D o you use the media basket?...I use the cell-pore cartridge on the emp 280,and i use filter floss in the media basket . I put the media basket in the back slot as a mechcanical filter and the cell-pore in the front slot,my water never overflows,I change the filter floss every 4 weeks or sooner if it gets dirty.I do the same thing on my emp 400 with great results.:D

Skippy

12-17-2002, 3:05 AM

I dont get what this is about the Emporer and "noise".

Just this last weekend I was talking to my GF about my 100 gallon , which has a Emp400 on the back of it, and she said she coudlnt tell because she couldnt hear anything running and thought the filter had broke.

JamisonBWolsh

12-17-2002, 8:37 AM

Originally posted by fishbrain
D o you use the media basket?...I use the cell-pore cartridge on the emp 280,and i use filter floss in the media basket . I put the media basket in the back slot as a mechcanical filter and the cell-pore in the front slot,my water never overflows,I change the filter floss every 4 weeks or sooner if it gets dirty.I do the same thing on my emp 400 with great results.:D

Fishbrain: I Use the filter PAD cartridge. WHERE do you buy your filter floss from?

Anton Wernher

12-17-2002, 8:43 AM

Your lfs should have filter floss available.. if not, a online store will. However a cheaper solution is to use poly batting or stuffing. Actually the best solution is to use aquaclears :P

JamisonBWolsh

12-17-2002, 8:54 AM

well...acuaclears are out of the question. I want the best Power filter available :)

I tried some fish safe Floss I got from Walmart. Before I added it to my tank, I ran it under the tap water. I did notice several small strands come out. Before I use this method, Can this be a problem with the fish? FLOSS it a MUCH cheaper then the pads and you can change it more often because of the inexpense.

Bobs

12-17-2002, 2:11 PM

I always use WalMart floss in my Emperor 400, it works great, and the big bags last a long time.

Darkangel

12-17-2002, 2:26 PM

well...acuaclears are out of the question. I want the best Power filter available
Why would you say this? They are a very good filter. The best? Who knows. What would you use to quantify the "best". AC are very dependable, long lived and they get the job done. They are versatile and adjustable to most any needs. I had one of the other power filters, I can not remember which, it had a ceramic impeller and I had nothing but trouble with it. Ac's are very good filters in my opinion.

JamisonBWolsh

12-17-2002, 3:47 PM

Originally posted by Bobs
I always use WalMart floss in my Emperor 400, it works great, and the big bags last a long time.

BOBS: does any of the floss "escape" the cartridge and into the tank? They are small peices of threads...

NJ Devils Fan

12-17-2002, 5:02 PM

What is up with people saying that biowheels make a lot of noise? On any of the tanks I've seen with Penguins and Emperors, I only hear the water loudly if the water level is lower then an inch from the black trim. Other then that, they sound like every other power filter when water is entering the tank.

Richer

12-17-2002, 5:21 PM

Perhaps it was just me then, the first time I saw a biowheel in action it was making splashing noises... left me with a bad impression.

-Richer

OCSupertones

12-17-2002, 5:29 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh

BOBS: does any of the floss "escape" the cartridge and into the tank? They are small peices of threads...

i use the walmart floss and put it in my gray media basket for my emperor...i've never seen any floss escape :)

OCSupertones

12-17-2002, 5:30 PM

Originally posted by Huyzel
i just bought an AC500 and emp280, so i'll do a head to head comparison soon :)

thats not a fair comparison...a fair comparison would be a ac500 and an emp 400

you cant compare 0-60 times for a dodge viper and cadillac...

JamisonBWolsh

12-17-2002, 5:57 PM

The difference in Ac 500 and less is ONLY the flow (and the size of course). Difference in a emp. 280 and a 400 is not ONLY the FLOW rate and the size, BUT 400 has an additional biowheel and double in size

JamisonBWolsh

12-18-2002, 9:56 PM

and the vote continues...

Skippy

12-18-2002, 11:22 PM

I have used both filter floss, and tried that "cheap" trick of the nylon quilt batting you can get in the crafts department, both work great in those extra "user fillable" carts on my emp 400's.

NJ Devils Fan

12-20-2002, 6:07 PM

Bump, I like the debate. :)

cyberbeer65

07-07-2005, 12:25 PM

I have never had any ammonia,nitrite or nitrate spikes by rinsing off my sponges or filter media in regular old clorinated tap water.The media isn't in the water long enough to kill off a significant amount of good bacteria.

flyfly

07-07-2005, 12:33 PM

to add a question to this old-*** post, does the waterfall effect of the bio-wheel affect the curent?

aknif

07-07-2005, 2:04 PM

I've always had bio-wheels.... They work for me and I like them! :) I have 2 Emperor 400's on my 125g now, and plan to get a 3rd one when the Top Fin 60 (freebie from uncle) that's on there now finally dies.

I really don't know why people say they're noisy. I can't hear either of mine at all. I can understand maybe hearing water splashing if you don't keep your tank really full, but I do, so I don't even hear water either.

:clap:

Kasakato

07-07-2005, 2:19 PM

I’m Bio Wheel'iset. They just make too much noise for what they are worth. Yes, they do affect the current. They add a falling water affect. Its like someone blocking and releasing the water every second.

aknif

07-07-2005, 2:22 PM

Lay off the sauce, Kas!! ;)

I dunno what you're talking about. My biowheels all move at kinda a slow, irregular pace, but the water is constantly flowing and I don't notice any random water sounds or any disruption in the current.

So there! :sim:

SCU33ZE

07-07-2005, 2:31 PM

The biowheel does not actualy "block" the water flow.
It glides over it. While it does this it does mix a bit of air with the water so you hear a very tiny "trickle" sometimes. This is on the penguins and eclipses

On the Emperors the wheels is pushed by the spray bars.

The noise and speed is affected by the angle of the spraybars.

HTH

Kasakato

07-07-2005, 2:34 PM

It still makes the same noise as if the water was blocked for a 1sec. I should make a video complete with sound one day :dive:

Kasakato

07-07-2005, 2:36 PM

flyfly

07-07-2005, 3:04 PM

so, does the current go beneath the surface and spread around the tank, or does it skim the surface and spread. The reason Im asking is that I am going to be putting a new filter on my 10g BBG tank, and I like to keep the current down. That is one reason why I like aquaclears, you can throw a sponge where the water comes out to slow down the flow

Kasakato

07-07-2005, 3:06 PM

The water goes beneath the bio wheel. The falling watering is what moves the wheel. If you don’t want current than its not a good choice. If you want no current that ACs are still your best bet.

flyfly

07-07-2005, 3:09 PM

thats kinda what I was thinkin. Thanks Kas!

JSchmidt

07-07-2005, 9:31 PM

I don't believe ACs produce any less current than do Emps/Penguins; if they did, that would mean they had a lower flow rate, esp. considering that the AC return chutes tend to be a bit narrower for similarly-rated (in GPH) filters.

The main difference is that biowheel filters tend to expose the water to more atmospheric air, so if you're injecting CO2 you might lose some as the water falls over the biowheel.

Jim

Kasakato

07-07-2005, 9:36 PM

The Peng filter's Bio Wheel ripples the water more, while the ACs just let it fall into the tank. If your water line is high enough there will be little movement with the ACs, and more with the Peng.

flyfly

07-08-2005, 12:15 AM

plus, you can slow it down with sponges

Kasakato

07-08-2005, 7:19 AM

LoL, yes you can do that too.

cyberbeer65

07-08-2005, 9:46 AM

The Peng filter's Bio Wheel ripples the water more, while the ACs just let it fall into the tank. If your water line is high enough there will be little movement with the ACs, and more with the Peng.

What are you talking about?I have plenty of water movement with my ac 500,if anything a penguin or simular filter has less movement of water!

Kasakato

07-08-2005, 10:54 AM

How high is the water level? Do you have a sponge there?

RanchuRick

07-08-2005, 12:06 PM

There are two things they need to improve on the AC.
1. Raise the outside edge by 5mm. If you put in near capacity filter media, AC always looks to be on the verge of spilling. Personally it hasn't happened to me but I have seen thread here about AC spilling over the top.
2. The motor frequently fails to start after maintenance outage. It is not a big deal now that I have discovered I can kick start it with a toothpick without detaching the motor assembly. (The one Whisper I have NEVER stalls.)

I have never had problem with my Bio-wheel 330. It is very quite. I do agree that the current is very strong and there is no flow control. I guess they want to keep the wheel spinning. I can understand why my pearl gouramis don't like to go near that part of the tank. I am considering modding the cover with something to extend down to the water surface to block the current. Any other ideas?

Kasakato

07-08-2005, 12:56 PM

Try a sponge right after the Bio Wheel. That should break up the water enough.

JSchmidt

07-08-2005, 1:58 PM

I think you guys are using "current" and "surface disruption" interchangeably.

A Penguin 330 has a rated flowrate of 330 GPH, which it distributes out of two chutes with a combined width of about 10-11 inches. An AC 300 has a rated flowrate of 300 GPH which it distributes out of a chute about 7 inches wide. Which creates more current?

Jim

Kasakato

07-08-2005, 2:08 PM

Which has the Bio-Wheel?

aknif

07-08-2005, 3:56 PM

Kas, the biowheels don't CREATE current, dude! If anything, they slow current because the water hits them on the way into the tank!

I'm with JSchmidt... you're not talking about the same things...

Kissofthegorami

07-08-2005, 4:13 PM

I would sum it up like this... both are great choices. Aquaclears are the longest lasting, most versatility in media, are the most quiet, create a good current and disturb the surface less. Its all about if you prefer a biowheel. Biowheel's are the next best thing to a canister filter for the promotion of bacteria. But they suck on a planted tank, just as wet/dry filters do, which it really is in a way. They are noisier.

I have a rena xp2 canister filter for sale. lol if you give up on the hang on back concept. Canisters are the best.

Harlock

07-08-2005, 4:41 PM

I like biowheels on smaller tanks. Even planted ones I like them simply because of how easy it is to swap bacterial colonies around etc. You can easily use Flourish Excel for a source of carbon for plants on smaller tanks. But, on bigger tanks, it's simply not as cost effective as pressurized CO2 and if I am spending money on pressurized CO2, I'll be using a canister, not a biowheel. Just like anything else, everyone has their preferences, solutions and reasons.

TommyR

07-08-2005, 7:36 PM

I prefer AQs after trying one. I still have a mini bio-wheel on a 10g tank and it works fine. My 20g high AQ 30 impeller has to be kicked started after a power glitch though. My AQ 20 on a 5g doesn't seem to have that problem.

Bio wheels are fine filters, just make your own cartridge insstead of buying them. I use sheet filter material and a cartridge frame.

Tom