Overwhelmed Planted Tank Newbie -- Where Do I Go From Here??

bluetik

bluetik

AC Members
Dec 10, 2008
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Sunny Florida
This is my first planted tank:

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Specs:
46 Gallon bowfront
30 lbs of black flourite substrate, capped with 40 lbs (I think - my memory is going) of black tahitian moon sand
96 watt Coralife Compact Flourescent fixture - 6700K -- On 4 hours, off 2 hours, on 7 hours, then off for the night
200 W Stealth Visitherm @ 79 degrees
No CO2 -- Dosing 5 ml Excel daily
HOB filters -- 1 Penguin 350, and 1 Penguin 100 when it is not on my QT tank
Ferts -- 20 ml of Tropica Master Grow per week
25-30% water change weekly

H2O Parameters:
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 10 ppm
Phosphate - .5 ppm
Iron - 0 mg / l
Ph - 8.0
KH - 3 Dh -- buffered up from 2
GH - 13 Dh

Flora:
Assorted Anubias
Assorted Crypts
Java Fern
Red Melon Sword
Echinodorus Red Ozelot Sword
Italian Vallisneria
Nymphaea stellata (happiest plant in the tank)
A variety of types of algae, most notably green spot on the Anubias and hair or fuzz algae on the upper reaches of the vals :confused:

Fauna:
2 Gold Gourami
4 Gold Barbs
8 Cherry Barbs
4 Kuhli Loaches
3 Otos
10 Zebra Nerite
I have 17 Amano shrimp in a QT tank, but I'm afraid to add them -- don't want them to become Gourami lunch - the biggest ones are about one inch.

My question is this... what should I do next to promote the health of the plants and fish? I am a little overwhelmed. This is the list of some of the things I have heard, but due to time and $$ constraints, I want to start with the most critical things first.


  • Change / add lighting
  • Switch to canister filter
  • Add current (right now I have only the HOBs for current -- i removed the airstone to avoid gassing out Co2) with water pumps
  • DIY Co2
  • Pressurized Co2
  • Dose Iron -- I actually have some Excel Iron, but haven't started dosing yet - I've heard I need to dose Epsom Salts with the Iron?
  • Change stocking levels
  • Change Fertilization routine
and more, and more. I know opinions will differ, but hearing some opinions on "next steps" would be most appreciated by this beginner.

Oh, and my plants used to pearl up (some of them), but now they don't anymore -- is this because of the algae?

Sorry about the length and thanks!
 
OK... I'll take a stab at this.

You provided a lot of good information. Thanks!

The algae is likely an imbalance of nutrients. Your plants have amacro and micro requirement that, if not constantly available will cause an imbalance and give algae the upper hand. My experience is with high light. You appear to have rather low light plants and therefor do not need to make too many changes to your setup.

I'd like to address your 20ml of master grow that you use weekly. Is that all at one time? Then there is the 5ml of excel. I would bump that up a bit to combat your algae issue. I like to get on a 3x per week schedule and add everything then. With the master grow and the excel in the tank, the last thing that you have to consider are your macro nutrients. NPK means nitrogen, phosphate, potassium. These are the macros required.

I use CSM+B (that is the equivilent of your master grow) and in a seperate bottle mix my macros using dry ferts. I also add epsom salt and baking soda to my mixes to boost Kh and birng up my CO2 levels (i use pressurized, Ph monitored CO2). You can buy them already bottled (the whole flourish line) or make your own. Over the long haul, drys are cheaper. You won't be using that much in your tank unless you get crazy with the lighting. The concentration of Iron in your mix is low, so you could dose that as directed on the bottle. Lighting drives the whole demand by your plants. The more light, the more CO2, the more ferts and so on.

You can use you HOB filters but try to have the returns touch the surface of the tank water so that you don't create turbulence.

I hope this helps! You tank looks great!
 
Good amount of info.

1. The first thing I would address is the lighting schedule. A siesta period does absolutely nothing to promote plant health. With your current regimen (no C02) and flora I would run for a solid 8 hours.
2. Next step up your ferts. and excel as Avionics eluded to.
Shoot for these ranges;
Target for Nitrate = 20 mg/l
Target for potassium is 20 mg/l in water replaced weekly only.
Target range for phosphate is 1 mg/l
Target is 5 to 10 mg/l of Mg
Target for Calcium = 10+ mg/l
Target for Fe = 0.1 to 0.2 mg/l
3. DIY C02 - Although easily accomplished from home materials. It takes quite a bit more time and attention to keep good consistent levels.
3a. Or go pressurized. With the addition of C02, all that would be required next is to bump your current lighting to 12 hours and maintain the same nutrient levels. The nutrients would be used up quicker so you would have to adjust that.
3b. Also with addition of C02 deflecting the flow of the HOB will be of great help in maintaining good levels also.

4. Don't worry about the Gourami eating the Amano Shrimp. The shrimp are too big. Gourami are not as mean as they're made out to be. Mine won't even eat their own fry.

You have the makings for a really great medium light tank, and when you get a good balance you will see some amazing transitions from your Italian Vals. They have a really interesting vein pattern and turn kinda bronze when they're happy.
 
i 2nd avionics.... for being overwhelmed you sure seem to know whats going on in your tank. giving all that info sure makes it easy for us so we dont have to guess.... the points made by the others are great.....


Change / add lighting
Click to expand...
prob not just depends. 96w is good for low light and some med plants. again i would agree with ford on the lighting. i would get a timer and shoot for 8-10 hours

Switch to canister filter
Click to expand...
this might be a good idea if you want to add co2.
Add current (right now I have only the HOBs for current -- i removed the airstone to avoid gassing out Co2) with water pumps
Click to expand...
if your not adding co2 it doesnt matter. i dont like air stones anyways.
DIY Co2
Pressurized Co2
Click to expand...
if your going co2 you need to replace your filters. hobs gas out co2 way more then air stones. a tank that big your going to want pressurized.

Dose Iron -- I actually have some Excel Iron, but haven't started dosing yet - I've heard I need to dose Epsom Salts with the Iron?
Click to expand...
excel is a liquid co2 not as good as the gas but works. its known to kill vals though. maybe flourish iron?
Change stocking levels
Click to expand...
maybe add more otos and kuhli loaches.
Change Fertilization routine
Click to expand...
again it might be good though may not be a must. most common is co2 first then ferts. i would look into dry ferts.
 
Thanks guys! Sorry it took me a while to circle back around with this... things are very busy here suddenly. This is valuable advice. The steps I've taken since my original message -- switched to 8 hour uninterrupted photoperiod, started adding 5 ml of Excel Iron every few days -- I wait until it's used up then redose, and split my dose of Tropica Aquacare into 5 ml every 2nd day rather than 20 ml once a week. To clarify, I do have my HOBs set up so that the return is under the water line, so there is no "splash" and minimal surface turbulence. I am looking into getting some macro ferts on your advice.

A few mistakes in my original post: Yes, MGamer, I meant to say Flourish Iron rather than Flourish Excel, and my fertilizer is Tropica Aquacare, not Tropica MasterGrow.

A few follow up questions:
* How much should I bump the Excel doses? I currently do 5 ml / day. It was melting my vals at first, so I backed off the dose then slowly raised it to 5 ml / day -- they seem to be tolerating it somewhat better now.
* Ferts -- I've been dosing the Aquacare at 20 ml/ week in one dose, as instructed on the bottle. Now, I've split this into 5 ml every 2nd day. Is this the right amount?
* Ford -- where would I find all those tests? I only have Nitrate and Fe of the ones you mention, and my Nitrate measures ppm, not mg/l
* Ford -- what do you mean by deflecting flow of HOB?
* I think I'm hearing that if I choose to go down the road of pressurized CO2, I'll be best off having a canister filter. I'm guessing this will set me back around $300 for both set-ups -- sound right?
* I like this article in regards to a fertilization regimine, because it is very formulaic, and being the analytical type, this appeals to me. What do you think about this approach? http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/sears-conlin.html
* MGamer -- yes, I'm planning to add more 3-4 more Kuhlis and 3-4 more Otos, and maybe 2 more Gold Barbs -- I had 6 Kuhlis, but they were playing in the airstone bubbles in my QT tank, and 2 got blasted out of a hole in the lid of the tank, or either they simply jumped. Actually 3, but I caught one in time to save him/her.

Thanks again!

Char
 
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