Whats missing - stange plant growth

[alarict]

Well I think something is missing - please help... :eek3:

After several months of good plant growth and minimal algae an amazon sword's leaves are growing in ever whiter and twisted (see pic). Suspected Calcium deficiency so dose 1 teasp of CACO3 post WC (once a week), this has made no difference and the leaves continue to grow lighter and twisted. Local tap water has an average of 15ppm Ca (according to the local water reports).

Stats: 55g, heavily planted, Temp 76-80, 3 Watts per gallon. pH 7.2, KH 4.8-5.2, NO3 12-18ppm, Amonia=0, PO4=0, Pressurized CO2.
Dosing: 30mL Potassium weekly, NO3 as needed to maintain above, Fe 2mL per week, Trace 2mL every other week. 3/4 teasp CACO3 and 1/4 teasp MGSO4 once a week after WC.

Maintenance: W-Change about 40% weekly (plant bubbling increases significantly for several hours after the WC then slows). Substrate consists of Fluorite and gravel with 10 plant tabs dotted round (the sword has one in its roots). The plants consume less and less CO2, the diffuser now fills and I let out some gas every third day.

http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09044/deficiency734.jpg

[avionics30]

You are heavily planted with 3wpg. You need to increase your ferts. I would bump it up to every other day. You have a good fertilization plan, just step it up a bit! Good luck!

[avionics30]

Oh, by the way your CO2 levels are low.... like 9 ppm. If your Kh is 5 and your Ph is 7.2 you need to add enough CO2 to equal a Ph of 6.9. This will give you a CO2 saturation of 20 ppm.

[jm1212]

the lighter color is probably from rapid growth; i know that after i installed my new light and started using excel, my amazon sword took on a similar appearance after its growth literally exploded.

[colinsk]

Oh, by the way your CO2 levels are low.... like 9 ppm. If your Kh is 5 and your Ph is 7.2 you need to add enough CO2 to equal a Ph of 6.9. This will give you a CO2 saturation of 20 ppm.

How is this calculated?

[avionics30]

I use chucks plsnted aquarium calculator. It comes in handy and has never failed me!

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

[NeonFlux]

Do you dose phosphate? Introduce phosphate to your dosing. Try upping the co2 a little bit. How long do you have the lights on? Keep it up

[KarlTh]

I use chucks plsnted aquarium calculator. It comes in handy and has never failed me!

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm (http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm)

Then you've been lucky. If you start adding other buffers or other acids than bicarbonate and CO2, then it's out of the window. I use peat filtration to lower GH and even without CO2 injection the calculator claims I have 14ppm CO2, which I most certainly don't. When I inject, the calculator claims 90ppm+, which would be fatal.

A better guide is to take the pH before injection and inject enough CO2 to depress it by one point. But the secure way is to measure CO2 using a drop checker (which uses 4KH water which has no buffers or acids other than bicarbonate and CO2) or similar device.

[avionics30]

Then you've been lucky. If you start adding other buffers or other acids than bicarbonate and CO2, then it's out of the window. I use peat filtration to lower GH and even without CO2 injection the calculator claims I have 14ppm CO2, which I most certainly don't. When I inject, the calculator claims 90ppm+, which would be fatal.

A better guide is to take the pH before injection and inject enough CO2 to depress it by one point. But the secure way is to measure CO2 using a drop checker (which uses 4KH water which has no buffers or acids other than bicarbonate and CO2) or similar device.


Sorry about any confusion. Based on the abundance of information that was given by the OP, I was pretty confident that there were no other acids or pete in the system. You are correct. If you buffer your water with any Ph altering medium other than calcium carbonate or CO2, then the calculator will be off. As I do not alter my water chemistry with chemicals, this calculator works for me. I try to promote natural methods of chaning water parameters rather than using chemicals.

To pu this al lback in perspective, my water Ph is 6.9 and the Kh is typically 3. I drive that down to 6.5 with CO2 and everyone is happy!

[colinsk]

Do you dose phosphate? Introduce phosphate to your dosing. Try upping the co2 a little bit. How long do you have the lights on? Keep it up

A piece of advice I was given was make sure the ratio of nitrates/phosphate was 1 and try to keep the nitrates at 10. This would make the OPs tank a little low on phosphates. (I am just repeating what I was told, I don't have enough experience to evaluate the quality of the advice.)

[shawnhu]

The fact that doing a WC and the plants pearl would indicate CO2 or ferts missing. Not being an expert in planted aquariums either, I would try upping the dose of ferts first, and then if that didn't work, increase CO2. Again, research is the best way to go and getting information from the experts, but common sense tells me that after a WC, things seem to improve, I would go ferts, then CO2.

[Riiz]

By looking at your test results, you need to add phosphates. That is a pretty important nutrient and can inhibit the intake of other elements.

And I dont see a mention of a micronutrient supplement either. Plantex CSM+B or Flourish Comprehensive are good choices if you need options.

[alarict]

Thanks for all the advice. A couple of questions to make sure I do things correctly...

I'm currently adding more CO2 than the tank can consume as the CO2 diffuser fills up in a couple of days (it has a power head attached so CO2 and water are forced together constantly). To increase CO2 density I can increase KH, is there another way? The tank has some black hair algae which I read is a low CO2 issue, any advice on how I can increase CO2 in the water? One other challenge is local tap water is pH 9 (yes nine), I treat incoming water with a non phosphate acid for WCs to balance with the tank that runs at pH 7.2, one week I added my usual 3 drops per gallon but the water company had changed the water:mad2:, I ended up with a tank pH of 8.5 and 4 dead cardinal tetras.

2nd question was on Ferts. Currently dosing Flourish Trace for micros and add some extra Fe and Mg, will do this more regularly. As suggested will experiment adding a small amount of phosphate (a bit worried about this as I do have a little algae so phosphate is probably not the limiting factor in the tank). Riiz mentioned Plantex CSM+B, does this have additional trace elements to Flourish Trace?

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement. :)

[jpappy789]

I believe Plantex is more comparable to regular flourish...but don't quote me on that :lipssealedsmilie: