White Cloudy Tank

[milrtime]

Hello All,

Ugh, not really new to the aquarium world but I have been away from it for a few years.

I have a 20Gal tank setup approx 2 1/2 months now. Something happened and now it appears form all my research I have a bacterial bloom (White Cloud, can't even see the back of the tank). This has been going on for 1 week now and I can't seem to get a handle on it. I had 5 African Cichlids that were perfectly happy but 5 days ago 3 of them died.

So here are my current Settings:

PH 7.2
Ammonia: 8ppm (Ya very high)
Nitrites: 5ppm
Nitrates: Sorry I don't have this test kit yet but plan to pick one up Sat

I have tried the following for the last 4 days (took me a day to figure out once the fish died):

20% Partial water change treated with API Stress Coat Plus daily
adding Nutrafin Cycle with every change
adding API Ammo Lock with every change

Water seems to foam on top and has kind of a thick looking film on the surface. Sometimes smells like grass, sometimes no smell at all.

Filter is an Aqueon 30.

About the only thing I can think of that changed was I changed the filter media about 8/9 days ago and then 24-48 hours later poof there was a cloud then fish died.

Any tips or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[AshK]

High nitrites and ammonia, among other things, are the cause of your fishy deaths. When you trashed your filter media (and thus a huge chunk of beneficial bacteria) a week ago you plunged your tank into a cycle. Since you have not done enough water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites at appropriate levels, dangerously high levels have resulted. Unless your cichlids are frys, I venture to guess your tank has a huge bioload. In order to keep the nitrites and ammonia at acceptable levels I expect you need to do multiple 50% water changes each day until your bacteria levels build back up.

Read this sticky on cycles in tanks:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

Don't throw out your filter media again. Search through some old posts here and you'll find all sorts of advice and tricks on better filters, filter media and methods for "cleaning your filter" without destroying too much bacteria.

[stezatois]

I agree with ash, some large volume water changes to get the water to a liveable condition for the remainding fish. Sorry to hear about your deaths.

[Rbishop]

What is the ammonia reading on your tap water? How long has this tank been set up?

SOunds like not very long at all. Also curious about what exact fish you have in there...

[milrtime]

Thanks for the advice.

So here is where I am a bit confused. My past aquariums had undergravel filters so I never had this style of filter before. It was my understanding that when the filter bag gets dirty (clogged and really greenish) after a 4-6 weeks I am supposed to replace it with a new one. That is exactly what happened the filter was clogged it the water was bypassing it so I replaced the filter bag.

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/009/11583.pdf - this is my filter I am using.

As for what type of fish just some I bought from the local pet store out of the generic "African Cichlids" tank. I avoided the Malawai type since I know their water conditions are different.

Thanks again for the advice.

[ChrisK]

8 ppm ammonia 5 ppm nitrtite with just about any fish = death. African cichlids are especially intollerant to even trace amounts. Time to start doing a series of water changes to get the ammonia down to .25 ppm and nitrite down to .10 ppm. I would also reccomend investing in an api master test kit.

[Rbishop]

When you tossed the media out, there went your bacteria. You should just rinse the media off in old tank water, maybe squeezing it a bit to unclog it. Unless it is falling apart, generally there isn't a need to replace it.

[Jakezori]

Ive had the same problem... Some sites say that it is a bacterial bloom (most of the time right), but it can just be minute particles floating in your tank... I would do a 1/3 water change every other day for a week and maybe buy some water clarifier. For the future buy a liquid test kit so people can help you more. :) :thm:



DONT BUY ANY MORE FISH UNTIL YOU FIX THIS


also, put fish in 1 at a time, dont buy more than 1 fish at a time and this will prevent future deaths =p

also... i agree with bishop, dont toss your media as it is what keeps your tank working... look up "biological filter" to learn more about why you should keep your filter media.

[milrtime]

When you tossed the media out, there went your bacteria. You should just rinse the media off in old tank water, maybe squeezing it a bit to unclog it. Unless it is falling apart, generally there isn't a need to replace it.

OK, I understand don't throw out the media. The confusing part is the instructions on the filter say to change the filter every 4-6 weeks. After all I was just following instructions. I will do some research on this and come up with a better plan for next time.

In the mean time how long should it take? It has been more than 5 days since the fish died and still very cloudy.

Thanks again for all the tips.

[leeser28]

OK, I understand don't throw out the media. The confusing part is the instructions on the filter say to change the filter every 4-6 weeks. After all I was just following instructions.


If you keep throwing them out, they keep making money :) Maybe I'm cynical, but I was making the same mistake until I came to this site and I really believe that a certain of the instruction to replace things is so they can sell the expensive replacements. I also found out here that you don't need to use charcoal - something else filter producers tend to leave out of their instructions.

[colinsk]

Charcoal does make a nice place for bacteria to grow. I have the same filter and when I replace the bag I keep the old charcoal. The little foam pad in this filter is a joke for trying to hold on to bacteria. Perhaps in a much more established tank it would have worked for you.

[bushwhacker]

OK, I understand don't throw out the media. The confusing part is the instructions on the filter say to change the filter every 4-6 weeks. After all I was just following instructions. I will do some research on this and come up with a better plan for next time.

In the mean time how long should it take? It has been more than 5 days since the fish died and still very cloudy.

Thanks again for all the tips.

the instructions are there for the sole purpose of making you buy more filter cartriges

[milrtime]

If you keep throwing them out, they keep making money :) Maybe I'm cynical, but I was making the same mistake until I came to this site and I really believe that a certain of the instruction to replace things is so they can sell the expensive replacements. I also found out here that you don't need to use charcoal - something else filter producers tend to leave out of their instructions.

I would have to agree knowing that disposables (filter media, printer cartridges, etc..) are where many manufacturers make thier money.:)

Anyways, if you look back to my first post am I doing the right thing to fix this issue? How long does it take to reestablish a cycle?

Thanks.

[sleepyskater]

Water changes right away!
and everything that everyone else posted above me :D

[leeser28]

20% Partial water change treated with API Stress Coat Plus daily
adding Nutrafin Cycle with every change
adding API Ammo Lock with every change


First, I'd do 50-75% water change daily (I personally don't believe 20% is enough).

I think the stress coat and ammo lock are good additions. I have started conditioning my water with SeaChem's Prime, it not only locks up amoonia, but also nitrite -- makes them safe for the fish and still useable by the bacteria.

And then it's a waiting game getting the bacteria built back up. I recently went through something similar when I increased the bioload of my 40 gallon tank -- had a spike in the ammonia and nitrite. I ended up replacing about 20 gallons per day for 4 days in a row, and my ammonia was only .25 ppm -- so keep in mind that this might take a while. Of course, taht's only one person's opinion -- but you're definitely trying the right things! keep it up.

[milrtime]

Here is an interesting change to the situation. My filter media is full/clogged whatever you want to call it. Basically the water flowing around the filter and not through it. This is what was happening a week ago Thursday and when I replaced the filter and started this whole mess.

So I have done two water changes today both approx 8 gals each. During the scond change I noticed the filter was clogged so I tried to squeege it out out in the bucket of old water. I rinsed, shooked and squuezed the filter and when I placed it back into place the water still flows around it.

Now what do I do? I was thinking of placing a new filter in place but leaving the old filter in the tank so I don't remove any good bacteria. Should this work?

[leeser28]

What's in your filter and what's clogging it? Can you tell?

[leeser28]

to clarify -- "in" -- as in any media?

[milrtime]

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/009/11583.pdf - This is my filter system.

The media is charcoal based. It is all green right now and the water is flowing around it not through it.

[Rbishop]

Unless the filter is assembled wrong, the only thing I can think of that is causing it to clog so quickly is overfeeding on a large scale.

[milrtime]

Unless the filter is assembled wrong, the only thing I can think of that is causing it to clog so quickly is overfeeding on a large scale.

Should not be from overfeeding. One of the first items I found when researching this issue was to reduce the amount of food I am giving the fish. I was already feeding only once a day. Since the cloud formed and with only two fish left they get a very small amount and I have have even skipped two days in the last 8.

I am feeding them TetraCichlid Mini Granules.

I think this filter is not so good but I don't want to do anything to hurt the new cycle that should (at least I hope) be starting by replacing it. Once I get things back to OK and it has been OK for awhile then I will look to upgrade my filter. Probably do something like run both filters side by side for a week (or two) then remove the old one. I will do this research after the Cycle has started back up again.

It has been quite awhile and I think I am doing the right thing but nothing is changing. My tank is so cloudy that even when I do 50% water changes the fish can swim up to the front of the glass I can barely see them.

:confused::confused::confused: - How much longer will it take?

[ggrfgirl]

Same filter and everything.....only I changed the filter cartridge and 3 days later it was clogged again!!! If you figure out the problem, please post here & let me know!!!
Thanks,
Lisa

[ggrfgirl]

Oh - and another question for everyone about not replacing this type of filter cartridge - how exactly am I supposed to clean an old one out? If I wash it out in the sink under the sprayer, tap water will kill the bacteria too, right? I'm just not quite sure how to "unclog" it - can anyone help with the specifics? Thanks!

[leeser28]

Oh - and another question for everyone about not replacing this type of filter cartridge - how exactly am I supposed to clean an old one out? If I wash it out in the sink under the sprayer, tap water will kill the bacteria too, right? I'm just not quite sure how to "unclog" it - can anyone help with the specifics? Thanks!

When I do my water changes I swish the filter around in a bucket of the old water to loosen the stuff. It could be algae that is clogging your filter -- that is what I usually find clogging mine. (I'm still learning how to do this too - I used to change mine every other water change). Good luck, Lisa

[milrtime]

Hello All,

First off thanks to those who provided some tips on being patient and what I need to do to fix this.

I think I am finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel (or in this case the back of my tank:)). Here is a quick overview of what I did to fix this and what I believe is the root cause.

- Two weeks ago today I replaced my clogged filter cartridge per the manufacturers instructions,
- Two days later the tank starts to form a white cloud
- Two days after the cloud forms 3 of my five fish are dead
- Tank is now so cloudy that I cannot see the back of the tank and the two remaining fish are just eerie shadows moving around
- Performed daily water changes 20% - 50%
- significantly reduced the amount of food the fish get sometimes even skipping a day
- After day 8 from the filter change then new filter is clogged again. I tried to clean it by swishing it around and squeezing the filter. It did not help filter was still clogged. I did not want to start the cycle over so I replaced the filter and dropped the old one in the tank.
- after 48 hours of the old filter floating in the tank I removed it and did my normal daily 50% water change. At this point the tank was still so cloudy I could not see any fish or decorations.
- within 6 hours of removing the old filter out of the tank the water started to clear up and ammonia levels started to drop.
- within 24 hours my tank is crystal clear

Now from an aesthics point the tank is bueatiful again but the Cylcle is still not complete (but it is close)

Using API test kits (Many have suggested these but I already had them)

Ammonia: approx 6ppm
Nitrite: approx .5 ppm
Nitrate: approx 8ppm (This was the only test kit I did not have until recently)
PH: 7.2

Question: for a 20 Gallon tank with African (the generic kind) Cichlids what would be a healthy amount of Nitrates?

I am not sure if it is coincidence or not but I believe the root cause was a contaminated filter cartridge. I am not sure how because I unwrapped it from the new packaging and then immediately used it. But the fact that once this filter in question was completely removed from the tank it cleared leads me to wonder...

Again thanks for the tips and support. I hope to become a regular poster on this forum as my tank continues to thrive.

[Temeraire]

Your fish should be dead. 6ppm ammonia is insanely high for a tank with fish in it. You need to water change the crap out of your tank, the ammonia should preferably be less than 0.25ppm.

[Temeraire]

Of course changing it too much too soon could also be stressful. I don't know the rules on a situation like this.

[milrtime]

Your fish should be dead. 6ppm ammonia is insanely high for a tank with fish in it. You need to water change the crap out of your tank, the ammonia should preferably be less than 0.25ppm.

I think right now they wish they were.

Actually the 6ppm on Amonia is good because it was well above 8ppm just a few days ago.

[milrtime]

Of course changing it too much too soon could also be stressful. I don't know the rules on a situation like this.

Actually you need to do them often during this time to dilute the ammonia and to add fresh water for the fish to breathe. Once the cycle has been re-established then I can significantly reduce the water changes.