need help!!

[K33NAN]

I just set up my 29 gallon freshwater tank again and some neons i recently bought have been slowly dying. I had the tank set up a long time ago and then became bored with it and just let it go. About 2 weeks ago i cleaned it out and took all but about 10% of the water out....it was EXTREMELY dirty. I got some neons about 4 days ago and everyday i find 1 or 2 more are dead. Today I did a nitrate, nitrite, and ph test. The nitrate and nitrite tests showed nothing at all but the ph showed between an 8.5 and 9.5. The tests were kinda old though. I also noticed last night that i had completely forgot to plug my heater back in so the water was at about 71 degrees. :o All i really want is to figure out what is wrong so i can get a green spotted puffer....i dont care much for the neons. I also want to get a freshwater lionfish. Could the 2 of these live togther in a 29 gallon tank? The lionfish will only be 2-4 inches on arrival....i'd really appreciate any help...thanks!

[Robert04]

Well first take your neons back to the store if you dont care about them.. And they died because your ph is way to high and your temp was low the two combined equals death. And I wouldnt buy anymore fish because they are cute or cuddly you need to want to provide them with a home that is not neglected. Its about the fish not you.

[Robert04]

Also if you removed the media from your filter that would have caused amm spike or something.. that could have killed them aswell.

[leeser28]

If you have 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate and a high pH I wouldn't be surprised to see detrimental levels of ammonia. Even though this tank had been set up before doesn't mean that there are still beneficial bacteria -- especially if like Robert said, you removed the media from the filter when you cleaned. How did you test your water and did you test for ammonia?

[K33NAN]

I wouldnt consider myself neglecting the tank if I am trying to figure what is wrong. My parents were actually the ones that bought the neons for me. I don't want them to die they just arent what I want for long-term. I cleaned out the filter but im not sure what you mean by media. I didn't take anything out of it....thanks for the help.

[leeser28]

What type of filter do you have?

[K33NAN]

I used liquid tests and I don't have an ammonia test or I would have done that too.

[K33NAN]

My filter is an AquaClear 200...it doesnt have the replaceable cartridges or w/e they are called.

[leeser28]

OK, you do need to get an ammonia test at some time - ammonia is the most toxic chemical that is naturally produced in an aquarium and you need to be able to measure the level. Nitrite ions come in at a close second. When you cleaned your tank did you use any detergents?

[leeser28]

For the aqua clear 200 your media is the foam pad, the biomax filler and possibly charcoal -- do you have all of this inside your filter?

[sleepyskater]

Do more water changes, that should help with the ammonia problem.
API test kit would help too.

and I agree with lesser28: what did you use to clean it?

[K33NAN]

All I used when I cleaned the tank was stuff I believe is called Aquasafe to take out the chlorine. Do I just lower the ammonia from partial water changes? I do have the foam pad and the charcoal...but im not sure about the biomax filler...what is that?

[sleepyskater]

50% water changes can help alot.
But we wont really know until you get an ammonia test kit

[leeser28]

I mean, before you added the water did you clean the glass with anything? Also, how did you clean the foam pad and did you change the charcoal?

This is a picture of everything that should be in the filter.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3610

It sounds to me like your tank has no beneficial bacteria to filter out the ammonia and nitrite, and as long as it doesn't your fish will die. Neons are very sensitive to this.

You should read this thread:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

It will explain what you need to do to get your tank in order for fish to live in it.

[K33NAN]

I did clean the sponge. The filter never even came with the biomax. I'm a little clueless as to where it would fit in though. How often should I change the charcoal bag? Thanks for all the help guys.

[leeser28]

Did you rinse the sponge in tap water or use some kind of soap?

[K33NAN]

Just tap water. I used nothing but water to clean the tank with. Aquasafe was the only thing besides water that I put in it.

[leeser28]

OK, by cleaning your sponge with chlorinated tap water, you killed A LOT if not all of the beneficial bacteria that may have still been lurking in it after sitting for so long. I strongly recommend that you return the fish to the fish store and cycle your tank following the directions for the fishless cycling in one of my previous posts. Neons probably will not make it through a "fish-in" cycling they're too sensitive. Get yourself an ammonia water test kit to add to the ones you have and start trying to get your tank to cycle. You must be patient, it will take some time to get your tank into proper order. If you don't do this any fish you put in will very likely have a premature death.

[K33NAN]

Well that sucks. Should I just clean the sponge by using water that I take out of the tank?

[leeser28]

What I do for my filter (I learned it from people here), is unplug my filter and take the whole thing off to dump out the yucky water. Then I wave the sponge around in the last bucket of water removed from tank to get all of the solid stuff like algae and fish waste off. Then I put it back in the filter. I think charcoal is only good for about a month, but when you replace it you will lose some of the beneficial bacteria that is happily living in it. If you get the other biofilter media that is suggested and use that instead of the charcoal you shouldn't have to change it at all, and the bacteria happily live in the little microscopic pockets.

[red_wall]

Well first take your neons back to the store if you dont care about them.. And they died because your ph is way to high and your temp was low the two combined equals death. And I wouldnt buy anymore fish because they are cute or cuddly you need to want to provide them with a home that is not neglected. Its about the fish not you.

Yes, take the neon's back, don't let them die.
Your test might be right, but my guess is that ammonia is your killer.
Your tank hasn't been cycled, read up on cycling, or else you're going to be wasting a lot of money on dead fish.
When you had the tank sitting empty, all the bacteria that converts fish poop into something harmless, died. So - right now you have fish "breathing" their own wastes, which kills them quite easily. You need to 'cycle' your tank, you put in a source of ammonia(a chunk of raw shrimp works quite good) Look up guides on cycling and itt'l tell you everything you need to know.


I did clean the sponge. The filter never even came with the biomax. I'm a little clueless as to where it would fit in though. How often should I change the charcoal bag? Thanks for all the help guys.

When you rinsed the filter with tap water, you killed ALL of the bacteria. Tap water contains chlorine, which is used by water companies to kill bacteria. It's very good at what it does :] If you ever want to rinse it in the future, get a bucket full of tap water, and add the dechlorinator to the water, then squeeze the media out in the water.

You really don't need anything buy a sponge and some filter floss or ceramic tubes. Sponge grows bacteria on it, and filters out solid waste, and any other hard matter. Floss filters better than the sponge - also carries bacteria. Ceramic tubes are the best for holding bacteria, they do next to nothing for filtration, but they are amazing at holding bacteria in their porous walls. If you can fit all this in there, I'd go for it, probably just the sponge and tubes, or sponge and floss. It will decrease your flow in the filter. Carbon (black stuff in pouches) can be added as well, but will decrease the flow a lot. Carbon helps purify the water, get out discolorations, and make smell go away (shouldn't stink unless your tank is bad off, which it will be for awhile)

Hope I've helped.

[K33NAN]

Well I am going to go do a partial water change to try to get the ammonia level down. I cant go to the pet store now because the roads are horrible from all the snow. The temperature is back up and the fish I have in there now seem to be doing fine. Is a 50% water change everyday too much?

[colinsk]

Don't be afraid to do 50% water changes twice a day for a little while. Don't worry about cleaning the gravel until you cycle. You don't have an ammonia test kit and that is the first chemical that is a problem. Once you start seeing nitrites you are almost at the end of the ammonia problem. Change water till you start seeing nitrites or get an ammonia test kit.

[Robert04]

If you dont want to take the fish back atleast get media from your lfs they will give you bioballs right from there filters or sump or even some sponge....

[K33NAN]

I have had bio balls floating around in my aquarium. I never cleaned them so hopefully there is something left on them. I placed a few in my filter in hopes that the bacteria will spread to the sponge.

[Star_Rider]

did you get an ammonia test kit(reagent like API)?

you need to find out where the ammonia level is to help determine the water changes.

if you want to keep fish during the cycle you need to keep the ammonia level below .25ppm. a 50 % water change may not be enough at some levels to keep the water safe.

[K33NAN]

I don't have an ammonia test kit and I can't get one because I am snowed in and the weather doesn't show any signs of getting better. I will get one as soon as I can though.

[Star_Rider]

in the mean time I would do 50% water changes at least daily (preferably 2x day)

[K33NAN]

my dad has a saltwater tank with plenty of bio balls...would the bacteria on one of those be able to survive if i put it in my filter?

[rich311k]

my dad has a saltwater tank with plenty of bio balls...would the bacteria on one of those be able to survive if i put it in my filter?

Nope, SW bacteria will not survive in a FW environment.