thoughts on dwarfcichlid.com website?

[kidbookrev]

Hi,

www.dwarfcichlid.com

I recently came on this site, while looking for info Apistogramma species. I really like how its set up, and it seems like it has a lot of good info. However, he has some interesting ideas on space requirements for the fish. I was interested in A. cacatuoides, so I sent him an email with my setup (10 gallon, sand substrate, planted, with some caves for hiding places). His response was that that was a great setup for the apistos.

However, every other place I've been says that 10 gallons is too small for a pair of apistos. I really would like a pair, but I don't want fighting and fin tearing.

What are your thoughts?

I just realized that on the page he has on A. cacatuoides, he says that he has bred them in a tank as small as two gallons. He does say that that is not recommended.
http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php

Thanks
Isaac

[Wyomingite]

Over the years I've had great luck with pairs of apistos in 10 gallon tanks like the one he suggests. I always make sure they are very well planted. Frankly, I was surprised when I started joining aquarium forums and found so many people advocating that 10 gallon tanks are too small. IME, I find most of the reccomended minimum tank sizes for species are way conservative.

WYite

[rocker92]

great insite WYite!!!

EDIT: is that the only fish that can go in to a 10gal or would other fish be ok???

[Wyomingite]

great insite WYite!!!

EDIT: is that the only fish that can go in to a 10gal or would other fish be ok???

I have also put a small school of 5-6 tetras in the tanks as well. Silver-tips, black neons and rummy-noses are the best in my experience. Neons, cardinals and glolights hug the substrate and end up getting abused by the dwarfs when they begin to spawn. I've maintained and bred Nannacara anomala, Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis, Apistogramma borelli, A. agassizii, A. cacatuoides and an unidentified species of Apistogramma in set-ups like this, long term, successfully.

Somebody around here is bound to take offense to this post and the set-ups I've used before too long, because it flies in the face of the current Internet dogma. To those who do, please read "3 Tough Planted Tanks" in the March 2009 Aquarium Fish International before replying. It is interesting to note that the first set-up has 2 pairs of A. cacatuoides in a 20 gallon high.

WYite

[kidbookrev]

@ WY-ite

So you are saying the small school of tetras with the apistos, or instead of?

That would be cool if I could have a small fish to "spice" the tank up a little.


Now to find some apistos that I don't have to pay $50 for a pair, lol

[Wyomingite]

With the apistos, as dithers. It gives the male something else to focus aggression on. Good filtration and regular water changes are a must, 25-30% weekly.

The options for a ten gallon tank are a lot more diverse than I regularly see preached on the web. After 25 years of fishkeeping, I've broken most of the "rules" quoted on this and any other forum, sometimes intentionally and sometimes before I knew they were "rules". In reality, the only rules to successful fishkeeping are providing good water quality, compatible tankmates, an adequate sized tank for the fish to be kept and not to overstock the tank. And as I've already stated, in the five months I've been participating in aquarium forums, I'm amazed at the conservatism of stocking suggestions.

WYite

[jb-ny]

I just recently got back into freshwater, after seeing a Double Red pic on the internet. I also found the dwarfchichlid.com and found it to be contridictory of most things I have read on line.
Luckily for me several of my LFS carry Apisto's so I have been able to see them first hand and get info from the employees (they are not the half-wits you find at petsmart)
The most interesting thing is that in a 15 gallon with over 10 double red's they have spawned and producded fry. The best answer I got was simple. These fish have been breed in captivity for dozens if not hundreds of generations. They have adapted to everything...water types (hard or soft) etc.
The only thing we can do is try and see if it works. As soon as I get my tank ready. I will be stocking it with Double Red's, Oranges and Panduro's.
A decade ago I was told that you couldn't have different trigger fish (salt water) in the same tank...amazing that I had a Huma Huma, Niger and Undilated trigger in the same tank.

[rogersb]

I was breeding blue rams and triple red apistos in a 20 long for awhile. I find these fish need around 1 square foot for a territory to breed. A 10g gives them adequate space, I always figured people recommended larger just because of keeping the paremeters in check for a 10. Having said that, I cannot seem to breed either the rams or apistos unless I abuse them with infrequent water changes.

[AfroCichlid]

The problem is that often the person seeking advice is inexperienced. For an experienced aquarist who is willing to do the necessary maintenance, 10 gallons is not too small. I don't use them simply because I like to raise some of my fry in the main tanks. It should not be said that 10 gallon tanks are too small, but I think it should be explained to " newbies " that it may not be the " ideal " size for their individual needs.
I have broken and still occasionally break the " rules ". 10 gallons is fine for some fish, but if you want to grow out fry, another tank is needed. Call it conservative, but I try to point newer aquarists to the biggest tank they can afford or provide space for. It just makes sense.... the bigger the tank, the less likely for rapid changes in water quality... greater the odds for success.


With the apistos, as dithers. It gives the male something else to focus aggression on. Good filtration and regular water changes are a must, 25-30% weekly.

The options for a ten gallon tank are a lot more diverse than I regularly see preached on the web. After 25 years of fishkeeping, I've broken most of the "rules" quoted on this and any other forum, sometimes intentionally and sometimes before I knew they were "rules". In reality, the only rules to successful fishkeeping are providing good water quality, compatible tankmates, an adequate sized tank for the fish to be kept and not to overstock the tank. And as I've already stated, in the five months I've been participating in aquarium forums, I'm amazed at the conservatism of stocking suggestions.

WYite

[Wyomingite]

The problem is that often the person seeking advice is inexperienced. For an experienced aquarist who is willing to do the necessary maintenance, 10 gallons is not too small. I don't use them simply because I like to raise some of my fry in the main tanks. It should not be said that 10 gallon tanks are too small, but I think it should be explained to " newbies " that it may not be the " ideal " size for their individual needs.
I have broken and still occasionally break the " rules ". 10 gallons is fine for some fish, but if you want to grow out fry, another tank is needed. Call it conservative, but I try to point newer aquarists to the biggest tank they can afford or provide space for. It just makes sense.... the bigger the tank, the less likely for rapid changes in water quality... greater the odds for success.

In theory, I can't say I disagree with your reasoning, AfroCichlid. In reality, for every newbie that holds off until they can get a larger tank or until they are more experienced, there is at least one (if not more) who's going to drop by dwarfcichlid.com (or wherever) and say to himself, "He did it, so I can to." So what good does giving an inflated tank size for a particular species truthfully accomplish if they're gonna get bored with two or three fish in a tank? IMO and IME, none. It's better to give realistic stocking options that are going to keep the individual interested from the start and offer advice and give guidance on tank maintenance and care from the get go. LOL, I don't know how many times I've helped people start tanks of various sizes, starting with easy fish and a simple plan, just to get a call a week or two weeks later to "come see my new fish." Upon arrival, there's a half dozen extra tetras or a pair of dwarf gouramis or something else that I wouldn't have recommended for that tank. With the proper guidance, the fish thrived and the owner's were happy. My philosophy is you're better off to preach and teach proper tank maintenance from the start and to worry less about stocking "rules" that you, I or anyone else can find exceptions to everytime a new book is opened, or a new web page is visited in this case. In the long run you'll have a more knowledgable hobbyist.

WYite

[rocker92]

great thread!!!!! and kidbookrev.....MGAMER2000 sells apisto. borellii for $4 but i dont know if he still has them!!!

[Inka4040]

I have spawned aggies in a 10, but personally, there are a lot of apistos I wouldn't try it with. Additionally, a lot of the dithers that are fast enough to stay away are also fast enough to be very effective fry predators. All in all, it comes down to not only your care regiment and scaping, but also the individual personalities of the fish. I think the larger sizes are so harped because they make many aspects of keeping and breeding apistos so much easier.