Help - Holes in plant leaves

[nanahachi]

After a large move and starting grad school, I've been absent for a while. However, as of maybe 3-4 days ago, I've been having a bizarre problem with my plants.

I have a 20 long, freshwater, planted, with DIY CO2. I have 5 white clouds, 6 amano shrimp (one with eggs), and as of a few weeks ago, a small pleco.

I did a water change on 10/25/03, and everything was fine. I was going to do one on 11/01/03, but was sick, and didnt want to spread germs, just to be safe, so I waited until today to change the water (I'm finally better). A few days ago I noticed holes in the leaves of my plants (anubias, java swords, ans some large amazon swords). The holes are in the centers of the leaves, not at the edges. I will try to post a pic or two one I find that cable that connects my digicam to the USB port...:mad:

As far as I know, everything has been status quo, other than the new addition of the pleco. Could the shrimp be feasting on my plants due to competition for food with the pleco? I really have no clue what the deal is.

I will test my tank later tonight and try to post the levels.

Thanks all. Its good to be back surfin the boards again.

[djlen]

How's your K level? Check the link:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

Len

[DIYMatt]

It could also be too much nitrate. By your fish load, I wouldn't expect that. But, I have heard small holes in the leaves can mean an excess of Nitrate.

[nanahachi]

Thanks for the input so far guys. I'll check the Nitrate levels

Since I was sick, I was remiss in checking my K for a few weeks. I just did the water change yesterday, added some baking soda today, and K = 5. I will be diligent from now on monitoring my K (like i *used* to be)

if anyone has any other ideas, please do post. Thanks!:)

[superjohnny]

baking soda increases KH, not K. K = potassium. If you read Chucks page like len suggested you'd see that a sign of low potassium levels is holes in leaves.

[Lazonby]

I would be hesitant to blame low K levels at first. Low K levels are usually seen in fast growing plants like Hygro polysperma, which IMO, is one of the best plants for determining K deficiency. K deficiencies look like pinholes with a yellow circle around them because of dying/dead plant tissue. I find it strange that your Anubias is developing the symptoms of potassium deficiency within 13 days.

So you recently moved to attend grad school? If you had to pull your plants and replant them, this could disturb them somewhat, but I would look at the differences in your water first of all, especially if you moved from a different town. What are your nitrates and phosphates? You cannot easily test for potassium unless you happen to have a chem lab handy. I would be concerned about your nitrates and trace nutrients. Some of your plant leaves could be dying as a result of shock, and snails (especially Malaysian Trumpet Snails) tend to eat the decaying parts of your leaves, while leaving the living stuff behind. A lack of nitrogen would hurt the plants, along with trace nutrients. If your sword plant is not a deep green color, you probably have a nitrogen and/or trace nutrient deficiency. You may experience a little die-off, but the plants should eventually adjust well.

[nanahachi]

Lazonby, thanks for the info. very informative, and useful.

I did read Len's post too quickly, re: K levels. I dose K with No-salt with every H20 change (1/4 tsp for my 20 gal). I guess I can check with Tom Barr whether I should up/change the dosage.

I actually don't believe that the move was at fault for the holes. I moved Sept 15th, and it was only this past week that the holes appeared. The only new change to the tank was the pleco. I will check the nitrate readings in the morning. Again, I still cannot find my USB cable for my camera, so pics will have to wait.

My anubias are mostly unscathed, however all of my other plants, some whose names I have no idea, are drastically beaten up. I pruned a couple of leaves off of one plant today, since they were down to mere shreads. My large sword leaves are nearly shreads as well.

thanks for your help, hopefully we can find a cure (and a cause)

[djlen]

Did all of this coincide with the arrival of the pleco? Check the leaves of the Anubia especially for signs of rasping on their leaves. It is easier to see on Anubia leaves.
Meanwhile you can't do any damage by going up to 1/2 tsp. K at water change or better, 1/4 at change and 1/4 at mid-week.
As Lazonby says, Hygro is a one of the best indicator plants for K deficiencies, but if you have fast growing plants of any type, you will see the signs tank-wide(to coin a phrase).:)
The problem could be either of the above or a combination of both.
When you get the opportunity, let us know your other water values, ok?

Len

[nanahachi]

there went the end of a third horrible week. sorry about the delay in replying.

my levels today:
KH = 4
no NO2 traces
pH a bit high today (>7.2), so I added some acid buffer to bring it down.

I was able to borrow a cable for my digicam so I'll try to post some pics tonight or tomorrow.

I haven't noticed any rasping on the Anubia leaves. In fact, I suspected the shrimp over the pleco, assuming that maybe the pleco was leaving nothing left for the shrimp to eat. I have only seen the shrimp clinging to the leaves, cleaning them, but have never seen the pleco so so.

I am suspecting poor water conditions, but other than the pleco, everything seemed stable around here...

thanks len, everyone

[nanahachi]

To see the large version of these pics, go to my album at imagestation: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288581659



http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pd28b14d726155fdfc9fc2c607ff8a8ef/fa8e05e1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pa7571e7bac7e035f19c380c886168e4c/fa8e05ed.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/p8413cd0323efaafef3a7eafd11f81d24/fa8e05bb.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/p94e401a9a0f0693492d20994a0c6ea57/fa8e058b.jpg

It's very hard to see the holes on these Anubia, so try checking out the larger pics for more clarity and detail.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pc2b6ad4de816de707df6ae09f4a922c6/fa8e061e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pcfbe1fdb7bd1f5161a6a493f0793976e/fa8e055a.jpg


there *was* a beautiful plant in the middle (I never did find out what it was called) with large leaves with purple along the edges, but alas, it is gone :(

[Slappy*McFish]

Looks like pleco damage to me.

[nanahachi]

really??? i never thought a pleco would kill my plants....:confused:

so, I suppose Ill get rid of the little guy asap, once i'm sure it is the cause...but that stinks, since my glass (ok, acryllic) has been so clean lately.

anyone else think its the pleco?

thanks slappy

[Hispid]

Yep, looks like pleco damage to me too. It will probably happen n the middle of the night so you're unlikely to catch the pleco at it. I've seen a 14" pleco slowly but surely devour a giant Amazon Sword plant over a matter of weeks with much the same looking damage that you posted.

[nanahachi]

update:
I traded in my pleco for 6 zebra dainos, so hopefully the cause of my plant devastation is gone. The 4 of the dainos are extremely active, especially around the bottom parts of my tank...hopefully they won't give my amano shrimp any grief.

thanks for your help everyone