pand cories dying.. :(

[t4runnr]

First my tank specs:

20 gallon high - been running since September 2008.
Whisper 30 HOB filter
25% Water changes every week / 50% Water change every 3 weeks.
Water temp held at 76F.

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 10-15 ppm

Stocking;
6 neon tetra
1 male betta
1 adult platy
2 juvenile platy
1 panda cory (was 5 but 4 died).

Here is the thing, the 4 that died are the 2nd batch of cory that has died. The lone survivor is the from my first batch that I got back in the fall. Its also been the largest of any that I have had so its easier to spot it among the others. The first batch of 4 (out of the original 5) passed on around Thanksgiving. I replaced the 4 (after 3 week QT) during Christmas break. They have been dropping about 1 a week and the last one was this morning. So I'm back to the only 1 Panda again.

During all the losses, I did notice that the ones that died would start swimming to the top more often gulping for air. But I've read that is supposedly normal for cories. So I would test the water get the typical readings that I had listed above and change the water anyway. I use prime with every addition of new water. The panda that has survived this whole time never goes to the top (at least when I'm around). Its just content scavenging around the bottom, sometimes going up onto the driftwood but never going to the top for a gulp of air.

I haven't lost any other fish in this tank. They all seem healthy and happy every time they see me waiting for their food. I thought it could be the betta beating them up but he leaves all the other fish alone. In fact, he kinda hangs out with the juvies. I don't know why. He doesn't pester them and they leave him alone but they seem to hang out.

Anyway, back to the pandas. I want to get replacements but I'm not so sure. Could it be just bad batches from the LFS I got them from? If so, why do I still have a survivor? I know of 2 other LFS that have them, a little bit further drive - about half hour, that stocks them. I wonder if I should try them. I would be be more concerned if they all died but the last one left seems to tough it whatever is afflicting them and only them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[saram521]

Could be bad stock from your lfs. Panda cories are pretty sensitive in the first place. Ask what vendor your first lfs gets their fish from, then visit another store and ask what vendor they use. If they both use the same place, you may want to find yet another store/source to buy the cories from. You might also want to try buying 2 at a time, and waiting a couple of weeks in between adding the next small group. Did you drip acclimate the other cories? That's the best method for acclimating fish to new tanks, esp. sensitive fish. I find that only foating the bag the fish are in and dumping small amounts of tank water in the bag is not as effective, and probably more stressful on the fish, spooking them every time water splashes over them. Was the light off for a few hours while the other pandas were getting adjusted to the tank?

[rich311k]

It sounds to me like they fish were not good to start with. Your numbers are good and it sounds like you do a good job maintaining the tank. I think corys from another store may be just the answer you need.

The gulping at the top is for supplemental air for O2, it is normal behavior. If your other fish are behaving normally and not breathing hard then the O2 content is probably not an issue.

[vtx-coley]

I know I can't keep Panda's no matter where I buy them from. I currently have 2 and I'd love to add a dozen more, but for some reason, they don't like my water.

My suggestion is to move on to another type of small cory.

Good luck.

[t4runnr]

Could be bad stock from your lfs. Panda cories are pretty sensitive in the first place. Ask what vendor your first lfs gets their fish from, then visit another store and ask what vendor they use. If they both use the same place, you may want to find yet another store/source to buy the cories from. You might also want to try buying 2 at a time, and waiting a couple of weeks in between adding the next small group. Did you drip acclimate the other cories? That's the best method for acclimating fish to new tanks, esp. sensitive fish. I find that only foating the bag the fish are in and dumping small amounts of tank water in the bag is not as effective, and probably more stressful on the fish, spooking them every time water splashes over them. Was the light off for a few hours while the other pandas were getting adjusted to the tank?


I'll check with the LFS about the vendors. Thanks for that tip. Yes I drip acclimate. I'll also re-introduce less. 2 at a time instead of 4. I try to time my full introduction into the community in the evening when the lights are off already.

[rsanz]

Were their fins at all frayed when you found them dead/before they died? I had a similar experience with Sterbai Cories and soon found out that my Pearl Gourami was harassing them. Their fins showed definite signs of wear, though.

I bought a new school of Albino Cories recently, and the Pearl seems to be leaving them alone. We'll see how they fair.

Other than my experience, I don't really know what to tell you. If there are no physical signs on the fish as to the cause of the death, it could be anything.

[t4runnr]

I know I can't keep Panda's no matter where I buy them from. I currently have 2 and I'd love to add a dozen more, but for some reason, they don't like my water.

My suggestion is to move on to another type of small cory.

Good luck.

I thought about that as well. But I've had the one survivor from the beginning that was bought with the other 4. That one survivor is keeping my stubborn attitude and trying to stay with them. When I upgrade to the 75/90 that I'm planning, I'll probably go with another type but I really like these pandas.

[t4runnr]

Were their fins at all frayed when you found them dead/before they died? I had a similar experience with Sterbai Cories and soon found out that my Pearl Gourami was harassing them. Their fins showed definite signs of wear, though.

I bought a new school of Albino Cories recently, and the Pearl seems to be leaving them alone. We'll see how they fair.

Other than my experience, I don't really know what to tell you. If there are no physical signs on the fish as to the cause of the death, it could be anything.

No frays or fin wear/rot. Scratch that, there was one that I couldn't find for a few days and its fins were about half gone. And that was in the first batch that died (I know it wasn't the betta cuz the betta was still in my son's room in his own little tank).

[tjroihenu]

Bad Batch or your Betta or Platy is nipping them, Is the Platy Male or Female?.

Try this, Turn out the lights to the room your tank is in and sneak up and watch them.

Some of my Angelfishes act like "Angels" when the lights are on but once its lights out, They have a whole different personality.

[t4runnr]

Bad Batch or your Betta or Platy is nipping them, Is the Platy Male or Female?.

Try this, Turn out the lights to the room your tank is in and sneak up and watch them.

Some of my Angelfishes act like "Angels" when the lights are on but once its lights out, They have a whole different personality.

I did observe them with the lights out in the room and the tank. The only way I can see them is the bathroom light on with the doors open. I don't know how long I would have to sit but I watched them for a good 20 minutes as the longest.

The platy are all female. I thought about the betta but he wouldn't be responsible for the first 4 that died. And 2 of the platy in the fall were still pretty timid, maybe less than half the size they are now.

If there is a bully in the tank, why pick on all but one of the panda? During the 1 month time that the surviving panda was alone, I didn't see any evidence of bullying or nipping on its fins.

[Turbosaurus]

I would bet money its not the other fish. Platy's? neons? harassing a corey to death? No way.

Are the coreys eating? Actually swallowing the food?
If you don't have any outward signs of disease - no spots or blotches or erratic swimming, no scratching or flashing- and it takes 3-4 weeks for them to die on you, it MIGHT be an internal parasite. The fact none of your other fish are showing any signs makes it more unlikely, but I can't imagine what else it could be.

Do you have well water or municipal water?

[t4runnr]

I would bet money its not the other fish. Platy's? neons? harassing a corey to death? No way.

Are the coreys eating? Actually swallowing the food?
If you don't have any outward signs of disease - no spots or blotches or erratic swimming, no scratching or flashing- and it takes 3-4 weeks for them to die on you, it MIGHT be an internal parasite. The fact none of your other fish are showing any signs makes it more unlikely, but I can't imagine what else it could be.

Do you have well water or municipal water?

Municipal water.

[t4runnr]

I just want to say thanks so far to all of you that have responded. I'll take all your suggestions into consideration when I'm ready to try it again with them. I just feel so bad that the oldest cory I have is alone again.

[vtx-coley]

I thought about that as well. But I've had the one survivor from the beginning that was bought with the other 4. That one survivor is keeping my stubborn attitude and trying to stay with them. When I upgrade to the 75/90 that I'm planning, I'll probably go with another type but I really like these pandas.

I understand. I probably bought a total of 16 (at least) and one by one they would die off after the first week or two. The two that are left are doing great, but I know if I bought more, most of them would end up dead.

[tjroihenu]

Leave the tank light on and watch, Turning off the tank light will tend to freak them out and hide and not do much.

My last guess would be the Female Platies, If not I would definitely say bad batch.

And for the 1 surviver, He most be good at swimming and hiding. :lol:

[Turbosaurus]

It might be worth it to feed a deworming flake exclusively for the first two weeks of introducing new fish. Quarantine new fish and a strict diet of anti-protozoan food just to be on the safe side is never a bad idea. Its probably only 50/50 that's what it is, but its worth a try.

You can also try calling your water dept, They usually publish test results on water quality every 6 months. Request a copy and take a look- something may jump out at you- some level, some chemical- something may grab your attention.

[saram521]

I really do think it's the stock you bought that is the problem. It's similar to experiences people have with neon tetras and cardinal tetras, where some people just seem to have better luck with them. Fish go through a lot of stress during the process of arriving at pet stores. You might consider asking the store manager (provided this is a privately owned business, as I can't see a chain store doing this) to hold a new shipment of pandas in for you for about 2 weeks. You can then visit the store to check in the cories during that 2 week period to see if the cories appear healthy. Also on a visit during that same two week period, ask the manager to feed the cories and observe their amount of interest in the food. Most cories can sense food hitting the substrate and will start frantically trying to find it; it's pretty normal behavior. With certain fish, it is better to see how they're behaving at the store before buying them, just so you're more certain that you're starting off with healthy fish. You may also want to ask your lfs if the panda cories are wild-caught or tank-raised. Tank raised fish are usually hardier than wild-caught. I would do all this if you're really wanting to continue keeping pandas.

[jimmy mc]

I have also had a hard time building up a shoal of Pandas. Out of 10 purchased I have only managed to save 3. This is over about a 3 or 4 month period. Most of the ones I have lost have been the smaller ones. They also loss their color, turning almost white before they die.

[sinner41265]

From what I've read, Panda Cories are the Neon Tetra of the Cory world. Everyone I've talked to had a shoal of Pandas, and lost them one by one until only one or two remained.

I'd like to have some Pandas too, but the fact that they are expensive ($7-8) and their sensitivity makes me think otherwise.

[beeZer350]

I too have bad luck with Pandas. I started off with six and after two months I'm left with two, which seem to be doing great. I really want to increase my shoal but I'm reluctant to purchase any more.

[Turbosaurus]

I think there must be some pathology going on. I think if it was just the stress of moving them capturing them and the LFS they wouldn't last weeks to months in their new tanks before dropping dead.

That's the part that's got me, once the fish are settled in, they shouldn't be dropping dead weeks later over the stress from being at the pet store a month before.

[irishspy]

Anyway, back to the pandas. I want to get replacements but I'm not so sure. Could it be just bad batches from the LFS I got them from?

I had a similar problem trying to keep pandas this last summer: I went through nine (in different batches), and only one lasted more thana few weeks until he, too, died. I know the water parameters were good, so I can only assume this dealer was getting weak stock.

Frustrating, because they're so pretty. :(

[t4runnr]

Update: I gave my last surviving Panda to a co-worker who keeps them as well. At least it'll be happy to be with a group again. I purchased 5 pepper cories to give them a try. They're currently in QT right now but its funny how active these guys are compared to my pandas. They even like to swin up and down the small current produced by the air stone. Sometimes they go through it as well. They don't do it all the time so its like their little play time.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I may try to give pandas a shot again when I get my 75 going.