Discus water change and Blood Parrot eyes

[fishfood420]

I have never had cichlids of any sort but i read that you have to change the water in a discus tank every single day.:eek3: Its that true?! Also whats the deal with blood parrots eyes? Some of them seem to be really oddly shaped. Is that just in the genetics or does it represent something about the fish?

[avionics30]

[quote=fishfood420;1837634]I have never had cichlids of any sort but i read that you have to change the water in a discus tank every single day.:eek3: Its that true?!

Only if you have 100 fish in a 50 gallon tank. If you follow the 10 gallon per discus guideline, you can change 50% of your water once a week with no ill effects. At least that's what I do!

[fishfood420]

i have a 120 gallon that i was thinking about putting 8 discus in.

[Hooked Newbie]

[quote=fishfood420;1837634]I have never had cichlids of any sort but i read that you have to change the water in a discus tank every single day.:eek3: Its that true?!

Only if you have 100 fish in a 50 gallon tank. If you follow the 10 gallon per discus guideline, you can change 50% of your water once a week with no ill effects. At least that's what I do!

10G per discus is a terrible guideline IMO.

Water should be changed frequently (read: large and at least nearly everyday) for juveniles and fry. Less often, but still more often than most tanks, for adults. Discus demand a higher water quality than most other fish in the hobby and with the need to frequently feed juvies, the need for daily water changes becomes a reality.

[fishfood420]

how do you have the time to change 60gal of water out of a 120 gal tank? what in the world do you place the water in to hold it. How can you afford to treat it for chloriene alone?

[Fish-Addict]

how do you have the time to change 60gal of water out of a 120 gal tank? what in the world do you place the water in to hold it. How can you afford to treat it for chloriene alone?


Use a python, everybody says they are great...

[fishfood420]

yeah that would be great to fill it up with but where do you let 60 gal of water sit out over night after you treat it?

[avionics30]

There are a whole bunch of factors to how frquent you need to change water, how much to change, etc. Most discus folks do massive, even 100% water changes daily. Typically the need for the 100% water change is due to the fact that you have many juvenile fish (less than 2") in a small tank and you are feeding them 10 times a day.

Unless you are breeding discus and raising them from tiny fry, I would not recommend feeding them 10 times a day. Three to four feedings daily is more than enough IMO. It's not likely that you will buy discus any smaller than 2" and typically most are for sale at the 3" mark or bigger.

Filtration and type of tank setup are other items to consider. Popular amongst discus keepers is the sponge filter. It works well for an in tank source of biological filtration but doesn't "remove" anything from the tank. I like to use a combination of filtration. The biggest filter being a canister. I have an FX5 on a 150 that works very well. I also use wet dry filtration as a means of routing water from the tank surface to the sump. Since my tank is heavily planted, I use the sump to add fertilizers to the tank and the pump in the sump returns the water back to the tank through a CO2 reactor and UV sterilizer.

The reason that I only do water changes once a week is due to the fact that I have a light stocking ( 16 discus in a 150 gallon tank) and the plants aid in keeping the water perameters in this tank pristine! It's a complete biotope. Filters only perform part of a nitrogen cycle breaking ammonia down to nitrite then nitrate. I like using a heavy plant load to help consume some of the ammonia plus they complete the nitrogen cycle by absorbing nitrates.

To some it all up, I can test my water after 7 days of zero maintenance and have perfect readings. The biggest reason to change water at that point is to remove any solids in the tank (poop) and to reset my fertilizer loads. Some ingredients of the fertilizers tend to accumulate. Now, that's what I do.

To give you another perspective, there are some discus keepers that keep 5 or 6 discus in a 100 gallon tank and insist on 100% water changes every day. This also works for them. They also likely have bare bottom tanks and a sponge filter. Changing that much water every day eliminates the need to try and establish a biotope in the tank. It's basically sterile.

Most people will tell you that the best way to keep them is through the massive water changes and huge feedings in bare bottom tanks. It does work, but IMO the biggest reason they do it is because the person that they learned from does it and so on and so forth. Why would you think differently if a breeder tells you that's what you have to do? Good question. Breeders do this because they have hundreds (if not thousands) of fish in hundreds of gallons of water. Plus they are feeding more to get their fish to grow quickly to get them sold. I would do just that myself if I was a breeder. Again, this is just my opinion and observations.

There is a ton of controversial information about this. Read these forums and learn from what other people do. I told you what I have done with my tank. It's 2 years old. I haven't had any dead discus, no diseased discus and I have spawns in this tank weekly. The discus in this tank were purchased at 2" a year ago and range between 4.5" to 5.5-6" today. If the environment in my tank were so horrible from not changing the water every day, I would think that I would have death, disease and would never see breeding. Again, just my opinion. I am no biologist by any means. I'm an aerospace engineer.

Now, when you do have to do water changes, and you should change 50% or more weekly, then you have to be prepared. I have a 100 gallon storage tank in my garage that I age, heat and treat with Prime before adding it to my tank. If you ask around or read more on this site, you'll see people using all kinds of methods. I've seen trash cans, other aquariums, basically anything that will hold water. Find what works best for you. Now, I'm sure you're wondering, "OK, how do I get the storage water in to my tank". Well, you could use buckets, but I don't have time for that and I'm sure you don't either. I use a pump and a hose. The pump transfers the water from my holding tank all heated, treated and ready to go straight in to my tank by way of the hose. I like to drop the temperature of the new water by abou 4 degrees. This is typically when spawning takes off!

I have to keep throwing the "this is my opinion" disclaimer out there because my way goes against popular belief. Read all that you can and do what works for you and your discus. Just know this, there is more than one way to keep a beautiful display tank with Discus, plants, substrate, other fish, etc.

[blue2fyre]

I don't have discus but I do have a 55 gallon tank with other cichlids. I use a garden hose to siphon out the water into my laundry sink. Then I add prime to the tank, hook the hose up to the faucet and refill the tank. For larger tanks letting water sit over night just isn't practical.
Now back onto the questions about discus. Now I do not own discus but I did a lot of research on then before settling on another type of cichlid. (Discus were too expensive and too much work for what I was looking for). The general recommendation is when the discus are young you need to do many water changes weekly to keep their water pristine. Many discus breeders do 50% plus water changes daily to give the fish the best possible water. Once they are adults they still need very clean water but the changes do not need to be as frequent.
As to the question about blood parrots I'm pretty certain it's just genetics and the strain of the fish. I don't know much at all about blood parrots honestly.

[pinkertd]

Avionics summed it up pretty well! A tank with growing young discus being fed several times a day will need more water changes than say an established show tank with adult discus. Another reason a lot of discus keepers do frequent large water changes is due to the fact that those people are feeding their discus a raw beefheart mixture several times a day. I don't think I have to give you an idea of how fast raw beefheart is going to be rotten in water at 86F? LOL!

If you get young growing discus, it's going to be easier to grow them up a bit in a smaller tank where more frequent water changes wouldn't be so humongous. A lot of people do bare bottom, I never do. I don't have water quality issues with 11 discus in a 72G planted tank, but what I do have is a little experience under my belt and a good understanding of how my particular tank and fish work and I bought good healthy stock.

I don't store water, my municipal tap water is fine so I temp. match it to the tank and refill that way. My water is moderately hard, and my ph is 7.6-7.8 out of the tap and stable. Just add dechlorinator while refilling.
And with the larger stock I have, I'm down to one huge water change a week, I use a python to gravel vac while emptying the tank and I remove the water down to the top of the dorsal fin of the discus! This is what works for me and my discus.

[avionics30]

Great points Debbi!

Like I said in my previous post, read, read, read!

There are many factors that are relative to your situation, location, water conditions, etc.

Good to hear that you have a solid, reasonable maintenance schedule! Mine works out great as well.

[Star_Rider]

there ya go..

avionics and deb pretty much hit the topic.

we do what we are comfortable with.. some folks pay a ton for water so they are more conservative minded.

I have a 75 with 7 discus...I change 40-50% 2Xweek.

but I also feed my adults 3-4 X daily.

more food =more waste= more water changes.

I use a python like deb.. match temp(close) add prime and have at it.

oh..buy prime in large bottles...1 cap of prime = 50-55 g of tank water.
treat for the volume of the tank.