Where angelfish come to die...

[madfox]

Yup, that's here. Help me figure out why? Following are tank parameters, equipment, and flora/fauna:

Temp = 80.2 (79.7 at night with light off)
pH = 6.9 (7.0 right after a water change, and drops back over a few days)
ammonia = 0ppm
nitrites = 0ppm
nitrates = 0ppm
gH = 11/12 degrees
kH = 8/9 degrees
CO2 = 30ppm
I don't have phosphate or dissolved solids tests, yet.

Filter = Marineland Penquin 200 Bio-Wheel (it's an older one, that I used for goldfish in the past - would that make a difference?)
Heater = Marineland Visa-Therm Stealth
Hagen/Nutrafin CO2 system
Eco Complete substrate
Current USA Satellite strip, Power Compact bulb, plus lunar
Air is turned on after lights out.

One piece Mopani driftwood
Two small terra cotta pots covered with substrate to hide, using aquarium silicone as the glue.

Water changes are 20-30% every four/five days, with top-offs every couple for evaporation.
API Tap Water Filter used for every change/top off, with Electro-Right and pH-Adjuster used as directed. Exception is when my cartridge is dead and my new on is on backorder (for instance), then I use a 50/50 mix of store bought spring and distilled, with Electro-Right and pH-Adjuster.
Tank cycled fishless for two months. Running with fish for one and a half months.
Dose ferts with Seachem's Flourish, Flourish Excel, and Trace Elements, as directed.

Flora:
Heteranthera Stargrass (Heteranthera zosterfolia)
Red Myrio (Myriophyllum heterophyllum)
Brazilian Pennywort (Hydrocotyle Leucocephala)
Melon Sword (Echinodorus osiris)
Micro Sword (Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae)
Telanthera Rosefolia (Alternanthera reineckii)
Mayaca (Mayaca fluviatilis)
Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum)

Fauna:
Rummynose Tetras (Hemigrammus bleheri)
Neon Tetras (Paracheirodon innesi)
Marble Hatchetfish (Carnegiella strigata)
Otocinclus (Otocinclus sp.)
Clown Pleco (Panaque maccus) (theoretically, since I haven't seen him in a while)
And a gazillion pest snails, both bladder and ramshorn

No visible algae.

This is the same maintenance schedule, and nearly identical parameters that's running on my South East Asia tank without a single fish loss there, and with ghost shrimp breeding like mad! Except that that one is running a Marineland HOT 250 Pro Bio-wheel vs the Penguin on the Amazon. And different flora/fauna, of course.

I had this guy in a qt for a bit and he did great! Went from shy and nervous to coming right to the top front when I came over hoping for some food. So, since he seemed alright, I moved him to the regular tank. Two days later.... *sigh*

Do I just need to let the setup mature a bit longer? I've had angel fish in the past, even had them spawning regularly! They lived a good six or so years... until a mid-winter power outage. :( So I'm not new to angels. Just new to having problems with them!!

Or do I just need to get them from a better source than my fish stores are?

Here's the tank in question. Hmmm.... looks like a bit of pruning is in order!
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t106/madfoxdesigns/Aquarium/aq2-02182009.jpg

[snoopy65]

No problems with any other fish? If not I would say get better stock.

[madfox]

No problems with any other fish? If not I would say get better stock.
Nope. The rummies all have bright noses and are active, and love playing in the water flow from the filter. The otos are hyper-active wack-jobs whom we've named Spazz and Jazz. The neons are bright and growing fast. Hatchets are eager beavers when I drop in food, especially the freeze dried bloodworms. The clown pleco is the only one I can't account for, but there's no ammonia spike, so he's GOT to be there somewhere.

Heck, even the angels will eat for a day or two. But then just get clampy and listless and are dead inside a few hours from when I first notice them acting this way. I've tried removing a couple to the hospital/qt tank before they actually die, hoping the water and extra air, and a smidgeon of salt would help. And also trying to keep them from fouling my main tank if I don't find them right away after they die. Planted tanks are a bugger for finding dead fish in, as many of you know!

My next batch are going to be from a breeder, and I'm going to pay some real money for them. I'll keep them qted longer, too. Should I make a routine of dosing the new ones for potential internals? Or just watch and wait and hope?

[snoopy65]

I wouldn't treat any fish for anything unless I KNOW it has it.

[Star_Rider]

"Water changes are 20-30% every four/five days, with top-offs every couple for evaporation.
API Tap Water Filter used for every change/top off, with Electro-Right and pH-Adjuster used as directed. Exception is when my cartridge is dead and my new on is on backorder (for instance), then I use a 50/50 mix of store bought spring and distilled, with Electro-Right and pH-Adjuster.
Tank cycled fishless for two months. Running with fish for one and a half months.
Dose ferts with Seachem's Flourish, Flourish Excel, and Trace Elements, as directed."

I am curious here. the api filter then add electro right and pH adjuster.

I use straight RO for top offs in my angel and discus tanks.. as dissolved solids are not removed when evap happens.
everything else looks good.
i would honestly expect that you may have gotten bad stock.

[madfox]

"Water changes are 20-30% every four/five days, with top-offs every couple for evaporation.
API Tap Water Filter used for every change/top off, with Electro-Right and pH-Adjuster used as directed. Exception is when my cartridge is dead and my new on is on backorder (for instance), then I use a 50/50 mix of store bought spring and distilled, with Electro-Right and pH-Adjuster.
Tank cycled fishless for two months. Running with fish for one and a half months.
Dose ferts with Seachem's Flourish, Flourish Excel, and Trace Elements, as directed."

I am curious here. the api filter then add electro right and pH adjuster.
The electro-right and pH adjuster came with the filter, and it says to use it because the filter deionizes the water and removes the electrolytes and blah blah... It's this, btw, in case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about:
http://www.petsolutions.com/images/400/17101175b.jpg


I use straight RO for top offs in my angel and discus tanks.. as dissolved solids are not removed when evap happens.
everything else looks good.
i would honestly expect that you may have gotten bad stock.
Thanks. Quality breeder next time. then!

And there's an RO in my future, too! I keep watching ebay for a good deal on one! Missed the last one by $5!

[Star_Rider]

FYI, for top offs I would not add anything to the water.. just isn't needed.;)

[madfox]

FYI, for top offs I would not add anything to the water.. just isn't needed.;)
OK! Thanks! (Phew... one... or two... fewer things to do.... ;) )