First time sand substrate - cloudy water!!!

[VivaLaVics]

:help:

Hello! :) First time I've posted with a question...

The Short Version:
I've used gravel all this time and decided to use sand substrate based on the cichid I am housing. Now the water is full of little sand grains I just cannot get rid of! Water change after water change it doesnt get better.

Any suggestions???

The long version:
Its the smaller of my tanks- 10 gal. w/ an AuqaClear Powerfilter (100gph / 20gal), Fusion QuitePower aerator, and basic heater (temp kept at 79/80 degrees.) It's housing 20 baby Hap. sp.'s "Dayglows" at the moment. All of which are less than and inch long. All levels have tested normal since the babies were introduced and I add salt (for victorias) at every change (just like I do for my 55 gal which does not get full of specks.)

I think this is due to the sand because the tanks I have with gravel are just fine and they all receive the same weekly attention which includes a 25% waterchange, and testing of the levels. Once a month some rocks get cleaned up, and every few months filters are checked/sponges rinsed (in fish water- not the sink.)

I've used the clumping chemical a couple times now, but I really hate useing chemicals and messing with the carbon in their filters- especially with babies.

Any ideas would be GREATLY appreciated!!! :)

PS: I have a 30 gal. getting established for them- I stumbled upon my first "Dayglow" (who is currently in my community tank and not very sexy...) on accident and fell in love with the species. So I bought my LFS out when they had a few babies to ensure I had the females to set up my lonely male in a tank just for him and his ladies!!!

[rocker92]

the power filter will stir up the sand. you need something with less water movement.

[avionics30]

What kind of sand did you use?

[Jakezori]

next time make sure you wash the sand before you put it in... it will eventually clear up once you do enough water changes.

[VivaLaVics]

Good to know- what type of filter would you suggest? I was thinking of looking into some type of small canister filter as I have a Fluval in the 55 gal- but I think its overkill for a 10 gal.? I went for the PowerFilter because I prefer the sponge and Bio-

[VivaLaVics]

Sand type... Not sure?!?! My LFS has coached me through the last 10-11 months of Cichlid keeping. I adopted a tank that was very poorly cared for- when I mentioned I wanted Sand they suggested a type and I got it... looked a bit sparkley before I put it in. Its an off-white color.

And I did rinse it before putting it in. LFS told me to. PAIN IN THE BUTT!!!


Thanks for the help guys!

[rocker92]

i will post a link for a sponge filter that people have had luck with, esp. with sand.

EDIT: http://www.kensfish.com/aticompletefilters.html look at the pic for the 10gal. that is what i would recommend

[Kashta]

I'd just shut off the filters for a couple of hours to let the larger sand grains settle to the bottom. Then let the filter suck up the remaining dust cloud. That should clear up the water within a day or less. You do need filtration that isn't going to stir it all up again, though. Either something to buffer the outflow, redirect it, or swap it for something else. A spray bar might help diffuse the force. You could even make one yourself using some joints that fit to attach it and drilling some holes an inch apart on a long tube or pvc pipe. PVC does come in black instead of white if you look around long enough to find it.

Beyond this in general terms, I can't offer much help... as I'm not familiar with the needs for keeping cichlids.

[cerhob]

I have a 55 gal tank that I have sand in. I got some "pool filter sand" from the Ace here in town, least that's what they called the sand anyway. After I "washed" the sand off once I threw it in the tank, added water and Bam! ... I Couldn't see the back of my tank longer.

So, a week later my friend and I got together and spend six, yes 6 hours washing all the sand. We placed the sand into buckets, put the bucket into the fish tank (without water in it) and ran water over the sand. I used a wooden spoon and my hand to mix the sand and get all the debris out of the sand. Then, using an old pillowcase, a large garbage can and a few heavy duty plastic bags, we would empty the sand out of the bucket into the pillowcase, run more water over that and drain it out. Empty the sand into the plastic bags. Then on our way to the next bucket of sand to start it all over again.

Anyway, now the water is clear and the tank is cycling.

[bushwhacker]

sand can be a pain to clean , first off rinse it till it runs clear in a bucket.. then do it again, and again, and again.... when you think you have it clean do it again... then put it in the tank.. get a large heavy glass or pot of somesort and pour your water into that so it doesnt hit the sand while filling... then do 3 or 4 full water changes to get the crap you missed let it settle for a day and turn your filters on wait 2 days or so and youll love the look

[cerhob]

sand can be a pain to clean , first off rinse it till it runs clear in a bucket.. then do it again, and again, and again.... when you think you have it clean do it again...

Yeah, sounds about right :)

[VivaLaVics]

Sweet! I think that'd be the easiest fix- although I have NO experience with spnge filters... I'll have to do some research- maybe a post here... ya'll are SO helpful! I really really appreciate it!

[VivaLaVics]

So, a week later my friend and I got together and spend six, yes 6 hours washing all the sand. We placed the sand into buckets, put the bucket into the fish tank (without water in it) and ran water over the sand. I used a wooden spoon and my hand to mix the sand and get all the debris out of the sand. Then, using an old pillowcase, a large garbage can and a few heavy duty plastic bags, we would empty the sand out of the bucket into the pillowcase, run more water over that and drain it out. Empty the sand into the plastic bags. Then on our way to the next bucket of sand to start it all over again.

Anyway, now the water is clear and the tank is cycling.

My b/f and I spent 2 hours cleaning this sand but not that well! We used an old t-shirt and a sink and rinsed it... like once... that's probably the issue mixed with the filter. I can't take the sand out because of the baby fish in it a the moment. Althought I do have a 30 gal getting established for them which I will spend much more time on the sand... I can still get at that and fix it. :)

[VivaLaVics]

A spray bar might help diffuse the force. You could even make one yourself using some joints that fit to attach it and drilling some holes an inch apart on a long tube or pvc pipe. PVC does come in black instead of white if you look around long enough to find it.



I have NO IDEA what a "buffer" is... More info please?

And thanks again to EVERYONE for helping me with this!!! Ya'll are great! So glad I joined AC!!! :thm:

[colinsk]

In this context a buffer is something to disperse the water flow over a larger area so it does not stir up the fine particles in your sand.

[VivaLaVics]

In this context a buffer is something to disperse the water flow over a larger area so it does not stir up the fine particles in your sand.

Do I add it to the intake or spout of the filter???

[colinsk]

The output. Any particle that is heaver than water will eventually settle. If you want to learn some math look up Stoke's Law on Wikipeida. But, for our purpose the idea is if the current is not too strong anything from sand should settle. What kind of sand did you use?

[Kashta]

Do I add it to the intake or spout of the filter???

You could try doing both. If you add a pre-filter to the intake nozzle, that will usually restrict the amount of water going into the filter.. which slows down the water coming out too. Some people also cram in as much filter media (extra sponge or filter pads) as they can fit in there to give it more density to hold more beneficial bacteria. This also collects finer particles from the water passing through it. Then as the water spills out from the top, downward into the tank, you could slow that down too by blocking the stream of water somehow before it hits the substrate. I had a small HOB on a 5 gallon hex that caused way too much current inside the tank for my betta. So I got some thick, leafy plastic plants to drape down from this spillway into the water below. It was sort of a green plastic cascading waterfall. The water sort of slid down that fake plant, which slowed it down. (I think I attached it to the inner part of the filter's outflow section using paper clips I'd bent into an "s" shape.) Eventually, my real plants grew tall enough that they restricted the water flow enough that the current wasn't too strong anymore.

Here's a web page I found where someone "optimizes" his aquaclear filter, using some high-density foam, adding a second sponge, and installing a pre-filter to the intake. That might be all you'd need to do to solve the dust cloud problem... plus, you'd get a larger colony of bacteria established.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/power_filter_tricks_iii.php

If you decide to change your filter, some of the canister models come with a spray bar attachment instead of an outflow nozzle. There are also some small internal filters that have spray bars that might be just right for a 10 gallon tank. The DIY suggestion also works if you get a canister type that doesn't have a spray bar. I saw a thread about this here not too long ago where someone made one himself using some pvc pipe. You should be able to search for that using "diy spray bar"... or just browse around the freshwater DIY forum.

Here's how the spray bar works. See how it produces many small streams of water coming out down the whole length of this tube? That's a lot more gentle than all the water coming out one small nozzle.. like a jet in a hot tub.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/blog_attachment.php?attachmentid=448&thumb=1&d=1203510421

You could attach that spray bar below the water level too, so it wouldn't be as noisy. Mounted above the water line like in this photo gives you extra aeration.

I just followed the link from this picture, since it came from our forum. Looks like it's a product review Q made in his blog. So here's that link for more photos and more information about this filter.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=488

Some internal filters on the market that are designed for small tanks also come with spray bars. I haven't used any of them myself, so I can't comment on whether they're any good or not. But here's an example of one I found.

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=11203

The aquaclear you already have is a really good filter, though. Do you know it lets you adjust the outflow by sliding that post at the top from one side to the other? If this is a new filter for you, you might not have noticed that feature yet. Here's a picture of that part.. called the ''intake stem.''

http://www.bedding.com/photos/product/standard/114420S510452/power-filter-parts/aquaclear-intake-stem.jpg

[VivaLaVics]

The aquaclear you already have is a really good filter, though. Do you know it lets you adjust the outflow by sliding that post at the top from one side to the other? If this is a new filter for you, you might not have noticed that feature yet. Here's a picture of that part.. called the ''intake stem.''

Brilliant! I had that on full blast. I have a canister filter on the 55 so i thought that was used to start it up like the pump on the canister. That has help quite a bit but there are still some particles. I'll look into buffering it more since adjusting the "intake stem" has made a visible difference.

Thank you for the advice! You've been a great help! :)

[Kashta]

I'm glad that helped. That's one thing I like about those filters.. it lets you increase or decrease the water flow quite a lot. I wish they all did that.

[enrique4jc]

I didn't have nearly so much trouble with mine, likely because I rinsed it very well from the start, but all you reall need are some good regular water changes. Turn off the filter, stir up the sand a little bit with your hand (be gentle with the babies), wait a few minutes for the big particles to settle, and water change. Follow that procedure a few times and things should clear up pretty quickly.

You won't get it perfectly clear even after several water changes, but your filter will take over from there. You should let it run for a day or so and then rinse your filter media in some old tank water to get the excess sand out.

Just be patient, you'll get there!

[pik01]

hmm, I'm a little late coming into this, sorry bout that but for future reference I cleaned my sand by dumping it into a bucket and shoving a hose right into the sand and blasting the water. Not enough water to spray sand everywhere, but to get a good churning and kick up all the debris. Dump, rinse, repeat. I bet you'll like the look of the sand once it settles. And if you like the white sand, imagine what black sand would look like ^^.

The next step is figuring out how to vacuum sand :) (hover, don't shove the tube in like you do gravel)

[VivaLaVics]

...I cleaned my sand by dumping it into a bucket and shoving a hose right into the sand and blasting the water.... ... ..... ...I bet you'll like the look of the sand once it settles. And if you like the white sand, imagine what black sand would look like ^^.

The next step is figuring out how to vacuum sand :) (hover, don't shove the tube in like you do gravel)

That whole thing is funny.... because I agree 100%. I want black sand in my 30 gallon. (Where I will be putting the fry once they are big enough to pick out girls and boys for a good ratio.) PLus I already like the look and I've figured out the hard way how to clean it hahahaha.... barley above the sand only... sometimes clamping the hose if I over fed them. THanks for the feedback! :) Tons of fun! :)