lets do it right this time!

[steelhumm]

Ok..I am re-doing my 55 this weekend, I have lots of plants coming from Jaysen, have some driftwood and other plants coming from various other peeps from here so I figure I might as well redo the tank all at once and be done with it for now.

Think I am leaning towards a black gravel/substrate...what should I get and how much of it?

I'm running almost 3wpg and have quite a few plants coming so whats best? I don't mind having to fert if needed but I'm not into c02 at all.

I know there are tons of opinions on this subject but I'm sick of reading through all the search results...so feel free to discuss..

thanks!

[steelhumm]

this is a good article...not 100% sure if it is accurate or not though

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html

says I should use a layer of fertilized substrate, layer of sand and a layer of gravel on top of that....sound right? I'n not looking to spend a ton of cash on substrate so layering sounds better than just 3" os expensive stuff

[stussy28]

Three inches is a little excessive. I have about 2" of eco-complete and it looks like much more and not needed. But layering works also. I love my eco for my substrate but it will get expensive for a 55.

[Ozymandias]

i would say usesomething like eco-complete or fluorite black for substrate if it get to much you can mix in some black sand (color cortz). layering general isn't nesisary for

[phanmc]

For a 50g tank use Turface as the substrate. 50lb bag of high quality gravel for around $20, can't beat that.

If you don't want to use CO2, reduce the light. There's no way around that, you're going to need to use CO2 at 3wpg. You will of course need ferts at that level as well.

[steelhumm]

ya know, I was looking at turface or SoilMaster Select, but SMS isn't available anymore except for the stuff at aquariumplants.com which is basically repackaged sms. I've read alot of reports of severe ph drops using turface or SMS. I can't have my fish in the smaller tank for two months while I stabilize PH levels.

after tons of reading I think I'm just gonna go with plain ole sand and add ferts and tabs. cheap, effective and I like the look of sand better.

C02 will come next I'm sure..one thing at a time..lol

Any cons to plain ole sand?

[phanmc]

Dramatic ph changes are rarely harmful to your fishes, its the large swings in kh and gh which are harmful. My tanks see a wing of over 1 degree in ph during water changes and after CO2 injection with no adverse effects.

Sand has very low CEC ratios, meaning it does a poor job holding onto nutrients and you will need to compensate for that by adding ferts to the water column. If you provide enough nutrients then there are no negatives to using sand aside from the compacting issue for deep sand substrates.

If you are going to use 3wpg, I would suggest not holding CO2 for later. If you want to hold off on CO2, reduce the light for now. Using 3wpg without CO2 is inviting algae.

[steelhumm]

thanks for the info... I'll back the lighting down some for now.

I went to two home depot's and a loews and can't find any freekin sand of any kind...except for base sand for pavers which is basically a bag of dust.

Went to two LFS's after that and all they carry are 5lb bags of regular gravel...no sand, no nothing. So bcak to ordering online I guess..but I ain't gonna pay shipping for sand so I'll get something else. Will look more into the turface more.

thanks again for the help.

[icemanx23]

Pea gravels make good substrate for low tech tank. I would suggest the lighting should be around 2wpg.

[debaric]

i use soilmaster and it doesnt affect the ph at all. I dont know who told you that but I have never heard of anyone who uses it complain of ph drops.

Your plants would benefit from additional co2 and lower light than just higher light without a carbon source. for a 55 you are going to need pressurized co2 as well.

[plantbrain]

As mentioned already, CO2 gas tank system, get this first, then the high powered lighting.This is the classic recipe for algae, high light, no CO2.

I'd say 1/2 of new folks make this mistake. I did many moons ago. I thought I just needed high light and Iron. But the plants only did well in tanks with a good stable fish load that I did not do many water changes on.

And only after I removed some of the light.

CO2 is the thing you want/need if you want faster thick plant growth, this is likely why so many are into planted tanks. If folks had just non CO2 methods, this would not be a very popular part of the aquarium hobby.

The gas makes the plants grow about 10-20X faster.
That's 1000-2000%.

Light is part of this as well, but when you add more light=> more CO2 demand, louse that up, you get algae, then the higher CO2 demand => more nutrients, so then we dose those.

If you can keep those 3 things straight, then you are pretty good shape. Dose is easy for nutrients, since it's freshwater, do a large water change, add the ferts back, crank the CO2, watch fish and plants, and garden.

Don't wait and save up for the CO2, just do not use the light at full power, use 1/2 the bulbs till you get the CO2.

You might not quite know why and how about CO2 to justify it's importance like we are mentioning here, trust us though.

If you want to slow things down later when you have the CO2 running, reduce the light, if you run into algae issues, reduce the light.

You get the picture.

Good luck,

Regards,
Tom Barr

[KarlTh]

Tell me about it. I'm currently struggling with the DIY PITA (CO2 pressurised system in the pipeline for next month) but daren't drop the lighting from 140 watts over 55 gallons because I don't want my Alternanthera (which I've FINALLY got to grow other than like a palm tree) to go to pot. In the meantime the SAEs are at least full...

[steelhumm]

in all honesty...I've been looking at C02 for awhile and had the cash set aside to completely redo the 55 and add c02, and to finally finish paying for the 250g setup that I ordered and put money on a few months ago... but after cutting off my finger and having to pay a $1500 ER copay (my medical SUCKS) plus all the copays for the surgeon, other doctor visits and medication..I'm tapped out right now. So I gotta do it on the cheap and wait to get my dream tank off lay-a-way :(

I REALLY like the look of the 3m colorquarts black... Ordering that in a few minutes. Then I'll look into c02 on the cheap.. diy might be tough to do bieng that I'm right handed and my right hand is missing a pretty important part..lol

[steelhumm]

i use soilmaster and it doesnt affect the ph at all. I dont know who told you that but I have never heard of anyone who uses it complain of ph drops.

Your plants would benefit from additional co2 and lower light than just higher light without a carbon source. for a 55 you are going to need pressurized co2 as well.

Serously?!?! DO a google search on "Soilmaster lowers PH" and you'll get about 50 pages of articles, forum posts and other info... here is one post taken from another forum.

I think its pretty universal that SMS lowers KH/pH. Somewhat dramatically, sometimes too dramatically for some. I suppose you could buy a couple of bags and test one to be sure its what you want. It wouldn't too expensive on one bag.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/43614-turface-pro-league.html


Do some research on it...lots of people seeing drastic PH drops from soilmaster...you're one of the few that I have heard had no effect actually.