How 2 keep PH up

[c8227]

I'm wondering on how to keep my PH up. For some odd reason my tank always gos acidic. And it has done it so much I have lost a few 100 dollars in fish. I have slat and coral rock, a couple of live plants, a few plastic plants and a piece of drift wood. Now I have gone to an all cichlid tank instead of a community and I wanna keep the PH up around 8.0 so they will breed but I can't do it unless i do a water change every 3 days. And yes that is how fast the PH drops. I know about putting texas holey rock in there but I will have to pay an arm and a leg for it on e-bay. So if anyone has any suggestions shoot em over to me. thanx chris

[Jakezori]

how low is it, because most of the time its better for your fish (and your wallet) to let your water be and not mess around with it chemically.

[c8227]

well its been around a 7.0 but it has gotten low enough to sprout brown algea

[toddnbecka]

Biological activity produces organic acids which break down the carbonates (pH buffers) in the water. The longer a tank is established, and the greater the bioload, the faster it happens. Any sort of limestone, seashells, or crushed coral will help buffer the pH and hardness to around 7.6. Good for African cichlids and livebearers, not so much for soft water fish like Apisto's.

[jpappy789]

Do you have tests for GH and KH as well?

GH (general hardness) is more important to fish than pH so if your water is hard, african cichlids will do fine even with the lower pH. KH (carbonate hardness) is what keeps your pH stable. Too low and the biological activity will eat away at the buffer as toddnbecka said.

It's hard to kill a fish based on a pH change alone. They are able to adapt to fluctuations almost instantly. Planted tanks run with Co2 experience massive swings in pH daily without affects on fish because TDS (total dissolved solids) stay the same. A more accurate way to get a reading for the dissoved solids concentration of your water is a GH test as most people don't own TDS meters so rely on that more than pH. I doubt your past fish deaths had anything to do with pH exclusively.

What tests are you using?

Strips are innaccurate, so make sure to get liquid tests.

[Coler]

Best way to buffer Ph is using a substrate and decor that will affect hardness. Crushed coral substrate and many other 'rift lake' commercial substrates will do this, as will e.g. limestone rock or indeed texas holey rock.

Failure to carry out tank maintenance will result in Ph crashes as nitrates rish. A low hardness (Gh/Kh) will make water more difficult to buffer. A good liquid drop test kit for these will show you where you are starting from.

If you have very soft water it will be difficult to maintain species requiring an alkaline environment.

[KarlTh]

I agree with JPappy. The problem here is going to be soft water, not low pH. Get that up (personally I'd go with commercial cichlid salts for GH and bicarb for KH) and the problem will be solved. You do need the GH and KH tests though so you know what you're dealing with, unless you also drive down freeways with a blindfold on.

[toddnbecka]

To raise/buffer the pH all you require is baking soda. Regardless of how much you use it won't raise the pH any higher than 8.2-8.4, but will raise the KH (which buffers the pH longer term.) You'd start by adding 1 Tbsp/5 gallons to the tank on a daily basis to raise the pH gradually, then use whatever amount is necessary with weekly partial water changes to maintain it. You can use aragonite (substrate or a couple handfuls in a filter) to maintain an even higher pH. If you want/need to raise the GH epsom salt will work for that.
Here's a helpful link: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php

[c8227]

Ok well I know I have some really hard water seeing that I tested it and it was well over 8.6. I had some plants in there and took them out I also took out some drift wood. I had another bloom of brown algae for some odd reason? I do regular water changes and filter changes every couple of weeks. I also bought some more rock seeing that I am just going to have rock only in the tank and take the fake plants out. Thanks for the advice I'll let you guys know how everything works out in a couple weeks when the 30 rocks get here.

[KarlTh]

8.6 is a measure of pH, not hardness. They are not the same. You need GH and KH results to know what's happening. I personally think your water is soft, at least as far as KH is concerned, which is why the pH drops so quickly.

[Star_Rider]

is the brown algae sticking to the surfaces?

if so you may have diatoms(aka brown algae) these show up in new tanks and have been associated with silicates in the substrate or glass(leaching)
aka new tank syndrome ;)

[yhbae]

Did you say driftwood? That might be the cause of your pH drop. What type of wood is it and where did you get it?

[yhbae]

And while at it, can you also measure your nitrate levels? This could also cause pH drop if it is high enough.

[jpappy789]

8.6 is a measure of pH, not hardness. They are not the same. You need GH and KH results to know what's happening. I personally think your water is soft, at least as far as KH is concerned, which is why the pH drops so quickly.

:iagree:

pH is useless without knowing KH. GH is more important anyways.

[c8227]

Ok so i got the pH up and stable but it is with chemicals. I don't really like using chemicals but I couldn't find any other way. I am using marine buffer from kent and it raised the pH up to 8.2 to 8.6 but at least if found something.

[toddnbecka]

If you want the pH that high aragonite would be much less expensive in the long run.

[Kellem]

Most of the time when we here the word Cichlid it means high PH and alkaline water but in reality there are many cichlids that do not require these parameters to strive.
Have you considered South american cichlids like Severums,Acara's,Dwarf Cichlids,eartheaters,Angelfish and many more which unlike Central American cichlids do not require much above neutral PH or hard water.

If you already have a low PH at the tap then its likely to go lower in your tank as most do and for the sake of the fish i would avoid all CA cichlids and African's unless you want the added worry of maintaining proper water parameters.

Actually you may have more choices then i regarding Tropical fish as a whole as my well water remains a steady 7.8 and 12DH or 200 PPM.

[KarlTh]

Actually, I'd be pretty happy keeping almost anything in that water, Kellem. When you've got 600ppm GH, that's when you have an issue ;)