Red Zebra - anal bugle

[Jaykit]

Getting right to the point, I was down watching my fish in my 55g and snapping some pictures. They all looked very normal and quite active making the shots quite impossible. Today I went down to feed them and I have a red zebra is just sitting there and won't move, even for food(my first clue as to something was wrong). Taking a closer look I noticed that the zebra has quite a large bulge near the . I had a hard time looking at it, but the bugle is quite noticable and near the exit point it is red. Applogizes the camera is an old piece of junk but all I have for the time being. Water paramenters are good and all comparable to any other day. Any insights or ideas would be much apprieciated as I dont want to scoop out and send to the porcelain gods.

82615

82616

[VivaLaVics]

That has appeared on one of my fish twice. I just picked up the waterchanges (2 or 3 25% waterchanges a week rather than 1) and it cleared itself up rather quickly. I have no clue what it is, and I dont know if it is the waterchanges that helped but none of my other fish have ever dealt with it... levels were good and his other tankmates looked fine.

Might want to wait on someone with some fact, but thought you'd like to know what worked for me. Hope your little guy makes it!!!

[red_wall]

Maybe constipation?
Hmmm...
I don't know, I haven't ever heard of this before (not surprising though haha)

Some one with a little more experience can probably help

But you can never go wrong with extra water changes.

[Pittbull]

Two things its either a fatty cichlid or bloat what and how much are you feeding..

[jackiomy]

I read this 4 times before I got what a bugle was.

[VivaLaVics]

I read this 4 times before I got what a bugle was.

hahaha! I just read right over it! I guess my mind corrected it for me. lol!

[Pittbull]

me to hehehe

[mel_20_20]

It very well could be constipation. Normally you can give it some english pea that you nuke in the microwave, peel the skin off, and give it to them. This is really beneficial to help prevent or relieve constipation, but if it won't eat then a pea probably won't tempt it to eat.

Another thing to do is a dip in a solution of epsom salts, to help unstop the poor thing.

Please don't flush it, though. If you need to euthanise it, there is a very gentle, kind way to do that. I will attach a link to this article that was written by one of the AC members. I have had to euthanise a fish a time or two, and this is much kinder way to help end suffering.

I will find the info on the dosing of the epsom salts and post the link here for you.

Be right back.

[7itanium]

One of my rosey barbs has the same condition- not sure why but she seems healthy so I havent been to concerned

[mel_20_20]

From a thread dealing with constipation.

Quote:
Treatment:
Green peas are recommended as they serve as a laxative allowing the fish to excrete their wastes blocked inside their bodies. Always remove the shell and if intended to be fed on fish with small mouth, mash the peas to smaller pieces.

Another alternative is the use of half a level teaspoon magnesium sulfates (Epsom salts) per 4.5 liters. If the fish recovers, improve its diet and change feeding routine.

From another thread that was about a sick Oscar, and a suggested treatment with epsom salts.

You can use Epsom salt to help with the constipation if that's what it is. As long as you don't have any scaleless fish in the tank you can add 1 tablespoon of salt per 10 gallons of water.

[VivaLaVics]

If the fish recovers, improve its diet and change feeding routine.

All very good advice!

You know... I now think this may have happened when I was lazy and fed my cichlids pellets-only for a few days. I have an array of frozen dishes that I usually feed at night w/ pellets in the morning. When I see a fish ailing I pick back up on the varied diet and increase waterchanges. So it makes sence that a poor diet is the culprit.

Those pics look like just what my fish had twice before... and it makes good sence that it is caused by diet. Try the peas or the salt! :)

Poor guy!

[mel_20_20]

This is the link on euthanasia. It is a very sad task to have to perform, but sometimes this can be the kindest thing to do.

I hope your fish gets well, and most probably it will, but just in case, and for future reference this article is very helpful.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1370852#post1370852

[Jaykit]

Yea, miss spell oops. Spelling is probably the thing I'm the worst at. Thank you very much for all the information. I did a water 10g (20%) change tonight and it looks like tomorrow morning everyone is getting a healthy feeding of peas. He's pretty hardy and been with me for a long time, cant even remember when I got him. Its actually gotten a bit bigger since I posted but all will be well again soon(i hope). Thanks again.

[Pittbull]

Yeah what are you feeding and how much i am concerned it may be Bloat..

[efors]

I agree with the constipation issue. If the fish doesn't eat the peas, isolate him in a small tank and do the Epsom salt treatment. Also, 2 or 3 fasting days can be good for him.

[Jaykit]

Regular feeding includes brine shrimp, blood worms, various other meats interchanged with normal fish food. Feeding is once a day.

[mel_20_20]

Yeah what are you feeding and how much i am concerned it may be Bloat..


From the pic it's hard to tell if it could be bloat. Do the scales stand out a little from the body, like a pinecone, which is bloat or dropsy?

Or does the surface of the fish's body seem slightly rough, like corderoy fabric, which could be early signs of bloat or dropsy?

This could mean bloat or dropsy if you see those signs.

You may already know what those terms mean, but in case you don't:

Bloat can be manefested by a swollen abdomen and can be from constipation or intestinal bacterial or parasitic infection.

Dropsy is worse and can, at first, just appear to be bloat, but the scales of the body begin to stand away from the skin, due to edema, giving the fish the appearance of a pine cone. Dropsy usually is fatal, although sometimes it can be successfully treated, and is the result of organ damage and failure, often due to internal or external infection and resultant septicemia, leading to kidney failure. Disease or trauma of water quality issues, etc.

If you see signs of scales standing away from the skin then urgent treatment is required and perhaps it can be saved.

[VivaLaVics]

If you dont want to do the whole peas thing- your local fish store will sell "Veggie Diet" frozen cubes which contains mostly peas. It also contains spinach and a few other veggies. My fish get this with whatever "meat" I feed them at night. So if its brine shrip or krill they also get a cube of veggie. Meat alone is not good for fish.. and blood worms are not nutritionally valuable. I know my fish LOVE blood worms- they eat them more quickly than anything else but they arent that good for the digestion in the first place so its a treat much like you would give a dog a bisket (which isn't very healthy.) They arent "bad" or "dangerous" just shouldnt be a staple food in their diet.

Let us know how he does! With my experience with the same issue, it's gone within a week.

PS: I have dozens of typos because my keyboard at work is different form the one at home and I dont watch my hands as I type... so I know how it goes. LOL!

[efors]

Regular feeding includes brine shrimp, blood worms, various other meats interchanged with normal fish food. Feeding is once a day.

For a mbuna, you are feeding too much meaty, high protein food; IMHO. Those foods should be given as once a week treats. As staple foods, mbunas need something like veggie flakes or NLS cichlid pellets; something with more veggie matter and less meat.

[Jaykit]

Yeah I usually use the meaty frozen foods as more of a treat such as the biscut to a dog, kind of a every 3rd to 4th day thing. As for the bloat and dropsy I don't believe that they fit the profile because the scales aren't peeling away from the fish at all. It fits more that it would be a blockage of some sort. Last check revealed that the zebra was swimming around a bit more and fins were extended out as usually so that is a bit confusing but maybe a good sign.

[Pittbull]

Yeah it sounds as you need to cut back on the meats not really a good ideal on that, brine is ok as a treat or 2 feedings a week but not as a staple so are the other meats..

A recommended diet would consist of a feeding of cichlid flake and a spirulina flake small portions twice a day..

Meats - brine, bloodwroms and other meats are good as a treat once or twice a week..

Example.. Feed spirulina flake in the morning (small portion).. Feed cichlid flake at night(small portion).. this will be your two small feedings a day.. Monday instead of feeding cichlid flakes at night feed a treat as mentioned above then continue routine, if you want to feed another treat what til Thursday but leave out the flakes either in the morning or night..

With any diet you should really fast your fish a day so like Wednesday don't feed at all.. fish can go weeks without feedings in nature (just FYI) but i bet you knew that..

I am afraid that this may be bloat and it may be too late..

African Bloat or "Malawi Bloat" Symptoms: The first sign of 'bloat' is loss of appetite which is then followed by swelling of the abdomen, labored breathing, listlessness, reclusiveness, possible red striations on the body, and stringy white feces. .

Metronidazol is considered the most reliable cure with daily water changes..

[efors]

Great! Then, good luck with him.
I really need to ask you this: What is that fish called bacardi that appears in your signature for the 29g planted. The only bacardi I know in Puerto Rico is a rum! Is this fish is that tasty, I would eat it with great pleasure!!

[Pittbull]

Just a side note extended scales usually is indicative of dropsy..

[Coler]

Sounds like its dietary related to me one way or the other. There's really no need to feed meat proteins to mbuna. They don't get hardly any of that in the wild.

[Jaykit]

Great! Then, good luck with him.
I really need to ask you this: What is that fish called bacardi that appears in your signature for the 29g planted. The only bacardi I know in Puerto Rico is a rum! Is this fish is that tasty, I would eat it with great pleasure!!
Appologizes, goes back the point that I can't spell.:wall:

Example.. Feed spirulina flake in the morning (small portion).. Feed cichlid flake at night(small portion).. this will be your two small feedings a day.. Monday instead of feeding cichlid flakes at night feed a treat as mentioned above then continue routine, if you want to feed another treat what til Thursday but leave out the flakes either in the morning or night.
Pretty much the way I have been doing it, except I only do one feeding instead of two per day. Really only use the meats as the "treat".

[Coler]

They'll eat all the meaty stuff you want to give them, but they don't need it; and fish don't need treats. It can and will cause problems like what you've got now and I would if I was you therefore cut it out entirely.

[VivaLaVics]

...therefore cut it out entirely.

I am under the impression cichlids should get a varied diet. It also cuts back on aggression issues.

[Coler]

Varied for the sake of variety serves no purpose. Feeding meat protein to Africans can make them sick sick, as has already been pointed out in this thread. It is not possible to make generalisations regarding cichlid diet as the genus includes so many different fish and consequentially dietary requirements.

Generally, this is what mbuna eat in the wild http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/aufwuchs.php

Feeding them bloodworms and such like is not generally a good idea.The length of their intestinal tract makes breaking down meat proteins difficult for them to do and leads to problems including bloat and similar complaints. Which are aften fatal.

Personally, I don't feed bloodworms or similar to africans at all. Although as pitbull says an occasional feeding is not likely to lead to problems.

I don't see how feeding meat to mbuna would cut down on aggression and in any event aggression should be managed otherwise that through diet.

[efors]

Personally, I don't feed bloodworms or similar to africans at all. Although as pitbull says an occasional feeding is not likely to lead to problems.

I don't see how feeding meat to mbuna would cut down on aggression and in any event aggression should be managed otherwise that through diet.

:iagree:. Bloodworms or brine shrimps aren't good for mbunas. Mysis shrimps, krill and cyclops are good and can be used more safely (according to Ad Konnings); but better once a week, IMO (not the 3, just one of them).

[blue2fyre]

Variety can be good but that doesn't mean feeding meaty foods. I avoid meaty foods all together with my mbuna. Instead they get veggies flakes, different types of cichlid pellets and fresh vegetables as a treat.

[VivaLaVics]

They sure do love the cucumber! :)

[Pittbull]

I like me some cucumber as well great with a little salt n pepper on it..

[bitbot]

Oh my god, 'bugle' :rofl:
It too me forever to work that out!