A few questions about going big 150 range

[feederfish]

Okay, the more I look at tanks I am have trouble finding what I want in low 100s and thinking going 150 gallons, but I am now a bit concerned about the use of my Python.

Filling the tank for a 25% water change, won't I still have to use buckets (if even beside the tank)?

I have a nasty pH of 8.2-8.3 out of the faucet and planning to be around pH 6.8 in the tank. Plus, I always waited like 10 minuts for the dechlorinator to mix in the buckets when helping with a friends tank... though I guess some just add it before or after they add the water. It seems risky, but guess I need some good advice. I just want to know what I am getting into effort wise. Too bad I am not doing, African Cichlids... I bet they would be fine with that pH.

[Egress]

I also require tap water to be manipulated before it goes into the aquarium. I will outline what I do, one of many possible approaches. I start out by filling a trash bin with a cheap garden hose (no antifungal additives) hooked up in the bathroom with a quick disconnect fitting where the bath spigot used to be. I set the bin up next to the aquarium, inside it is a pump and some hose. I use the pump to agitate the water while the aquarium is being drained/vacuumed. To drain the aquarium I move the garden hose I had just used to fill the bin with. One end is hooked up to my gravel vacuum, the other end goes outside to water some plants. I have different gravel vacs that drain at different rates depending on the size of their hose, they all hook up to the garden hose with quick disconnect fittings. Once I'm done draining I use the pump and its hose to move water out of the bin and into the aquarium.

[Rbishop]

What do you plan on keeping that requires the pH of 6.8?

[ChrisK]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about your ph, most fish will adjust to that ph especially if you buy locally. I keep lots of "soft" neutral to acidic water fish in liquid rock with a ph of 7.8-8.2. Are you wanting to keep discus? As far as water changes go, in my big tanks I drain the water outside with my python, and then just run the water hose inside, pretreat the aquarium with water conditioner and run the hose.

[mostlycichlids]

I think what he is saying is out of the tap the water is 8.2 and once aggitated there is a Ph drop down to 6.8. I have had this same problem when I was on a well. I just filled straight from the tap with the python. The python will create enough oxygenated water into the tank that by the time you fill the tank Ph will be in line. As long as the hardness is the same in both places I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would assume that you have very soft water even with a high Ph. That was my case I had a 8.2-8.4 Ph but very soft water. Check your KH and see what is going on. I don't think you are going to have a probblem just filling esp if you are only doing 25% changes at a time.

[SMinNC]

With or without changing the pH. Here's something that I do that could work for you.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/simplemaninnc/Picture009.jpg

30 gal trash can.

I use an old pump to circulate while filling, and help the prime get everywhere quick.

And the smaller pump with the ridged tubing to transfer the water to the pond or to a 5 gal bucket to haul elsewhere.

Floating thermometer to get temp close.

Python running from kitchen sink, for filling bucket.

C-clamp to hold python for me.

=

Instruction's:

Attach Python to trash can. (Feel for a rib under the trash can lip. Line up C-clamp with it, with python hose already in C-clamp.)

Just snug it down enough to hold the hose. (Don't kill the trash can.)

Turn on water.

Turn on circulation pump.

Check temp around half full, and adjust.

Turn off water before it over flows.
If it over flows. Run to faucet pull down drain thingy on python. Run back to trash can. Undo C-clamp and use python on the floor, before anyone notices what happened. get towels etc. And blame the "small" mess on the pos python.

Add chlorine remover/stabilizer stuff. (1 cap full of prime).

Scratch your head and stare at your tank for 5 seconds.

Turn off circ. pump.

Turn on transfer pump.

Sit back and watch the tank fill.

Do Not over flow tank. I don't have any experience with that to help get out.

=

If you have an extra pump lying around that could pump it into your tank. And some tubing and stuff, you'd be set. :)

Happy WC'ing! :)

[feederfish]

In response, I was refering to the tap water being 8.2-8.3. As far as fish I plan to keep, my main concern is loaches... polka-dot loachs aka angelicus loach (Botia Kobotai). The concern is botia kobotai can't take the higher pH and I don't won't to stress them yet alone kill them, even if just a 25% water change.

I hate the idea of filling directly and the Rubber Maid route (hahaha) seems to be my preference. =D Thanks for sharing too. Here I was thinking 5 gallon buckets and a pump, but using one big bucket is definately better.

I do like Discus too, but I think I have a challenging enough stocking for this first run of tank. Maybe the future. Either way, I am planning on 6.8-7 pH for the tank.

Love this forum!

[7itanium]

I think you guys are putting way to much thought into PH, and dispersion of prime

there are some fish that require a specific PH (discus and Malawis to name a couple) but for the most part tropical fish will adjust accordingly.. especially if they come from a local store because chances are they use the same water as you.

also... as far as dispersing prime (or another dechlorinator) it instantly dispurses when added to water-- as long as you are adding the correct amount.. it shouldnt take more than 2-3 minutes to work (and a pump shouldnt be needed)

also you can add prime directly to the tank when filling... the dechlorinating agents WILL NOT bind to the already treated water-- it will only bind to water that containes chlorine/chloramine

that is how I do it and I have never had a problem.. I also keep many PH sensitive fish, and fish that others claim to have problems with

SMinNC im not saying that your bucket is a bad idea.. its acctually a cool contraption you have thought up.. im just saying that if the OP doesnt already have the parts laying around-- its not really necessary to go spend more money, when a traditional method will work accordingly

[feederfish]

Stocking, since it came up...

Rev 3:

Cardinal Tetra (12 min)
Pearl Gourami (4-5)
Polka-dot Loach (Botia kubotai) (4-5)
Three-lined Pencilfish (4-5)
Red Wagtail Platy(3)
Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (pair)

Maybe list:
Other friendly Amazon Cichlids (Rams, Cockatoo)
Plec (Still a big maybe, L134 )

[7itanium]

4-5 Yellow Lab cichlids might do well in that mix.. they are on the very peaceful end as far as africans go.. some even consider them a community fish

[Egress]

As a followup re: why one wouldn't go straight from the tap.. in my case, there's something in my tap water that's dangerous for fish. I tried filling straight from the tap once (dosed the aquarium with prime before filling), one fish died and a dozen others weren't right for somewhere between 2 hours and 2 days. All else being equal, dosing prime in a bin and agitating the water before it goes in.. the fish are perfectly normal after a water change. My best guess is some agent is being brought out of solution by the agitation in the bin.

[SMinNC]

I see now that I didn't say anything about the first and main reason why I put a circulating pump in, in the first place. :duh:

Which was to circulate the water while filling. So any temp adjusting would be noticable, quicker.
I've became pretty good at fingering the temp anymore. For me there's a fine line between feeling cool and feeling warm. And it's around 79*F +/-2*F. And the tap on my faucet should be real close at about 1* past TDC.

I used to fill my 75g straight through the python.
We're on a community well, and it used to not be very bad with the chlorine. But I walked into the room one time while it was filling and seen a Khuli having fun in the gravel vac section. And had to argue with him about getting out so much I had to take it above the water to get him out of it.
He died an hour or so later.

When I moved back here a few yrs ago. Someone else took the well over. And now the chlorine will smack you in the face, sometimes.
So after we built the pond, I came up with this. We started out with with about 16 swords, and that turnt into 60-70 in no time. I was hauling 10-15 to the LFS once in a while.

=

The pH thing.

I have to agree with Leaving it Alone.

And agree with, the LFS probably 95%+, most likely Doesn't Change theirs either.

I've tried that more than once. And most likely stressed my fish more than helped them. It's kind of like "Loving them to death", literally.
It's also... The more we learn about water, the less we know... thing, for me.

Being as unedumicated as I am. I tend to use my imagination. And alot of thinking.
So the best I've came up with for me, is something like...
There are Alot of reasons, Why, this water is the way it it is. (pH, KH, GH, alkalinity, etc)
So how could 1 bottle of Powder/Liquid be able to fix water from everyhwere in the world?
I says, Nope!
If we were that good, we'd done had a cure for cancer yrs ago.

I'm pretty sure(go ask a health nut) our bodies would prefer a certain pH of drinking water. But our water treament plants make our water drinkable, and wherever you are. You get whatever pH it is. They don't make it 7.0 for us. ;)

We have a catfish in my mom's 55g that is somewhere around 18 yrs old. And I know he has spent a few of those yrs in very questionable water. But I'm betting, it was the consistancy not perfection, that kept him going all these yrs.

Recap, from ramblings:

Try leaving the water chemistry as is.
And don't love them to death.
You'll both be less stressed.

And yea, if you had been following me around for the past yr, you'd be yelling hipocrit. But I'm getting better. :)

And as my saying goes...

"Do as I say... Not, as I do!"

[McLendon]

I'm lucky I can just add water right from the tap.when I first set the tank up I did Peg the Ph. At 7.0 it has not changed in years. The up side is that tanks of 100gl and up are real stable. With the right filters and fish load I get by with 50% water changes 4 times a year and weekly 25% top up.IMHO If I was going to have to treat the water before I could add it a big trash can filled and treated the night before looks like the way to go

[feederfish]

I will talk to my LFS, since PH was my main concern. They are on city water and I am on county water, but I think it all comes from the same lake here. I do know they carry Yo-Yo loaches, so I will check what they do with their tanks.

I hate more work, so I will try to get away with path of least resistance.

Though, I personally dislike the water here for showers and drinking, it is nothing like the water I grew up with. If I could change the water at the main for little cost, I wouldn't hesitate. I don't think I will ever get use to it, but hope the fish don't mind.

[feederfish]

Oh, I do have a very large of piece of driftwood going in the tank too (Still bleeding some after tons of boiling and dishwash action), so that will likely lower the pH some. I will just wait and see. =D

[Mgamer20o0]

i have kept many of those in 8ph plus semi hard water. most fish will adapt. your other option is getting a ro unit and having a holding tank. i would at least have a 100 gallon holding bin if not more.