View Full Version : Hair Algae AGAIN??
I've already had my case of hair algae, link here (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183673)
And I think it is back!!
Can anyone help me figure out if this is hair algae, or not, and whether there is something I can do about it.. I already removed that first plant from the tank that had it, and I do not want to have to do that again.
Lighting conditions are 1x65watt bulb stays on for 9 hours a day.. (CF 2x65watt light), I turned off the one directly over the plants and turned on the one on the other side the other day so that they do not get TOO much light.
Water params as most recently checked are:
ph - 7.6
Ammonia - 0.25ppm (way closer to 0)
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 5-10
Please help! :(
debaric
03-13-2009, 1:24 PM
you cant do anything about that until you get some co2 going in that tank. With over 4 wpg, you need pressurized co2 and probably some additional spot treatment with flourish excel.
you cant do anything about that until you get some co2 going in that tank. With over 4 wpg, you need pressurized co2 and probably some additional spot treatment with flourish excel.
Currently I have DIY CO2, but it's not producing very many bubbles, would a DIY CO2 work if I upped the bubbles per minute? I also have flourish excel, I will dose that today.
debaric
03-13-2009, 1:46 PM
yea, increase the bubble rate, more co2 in your tank will help kill it off.
I just added a second DIY CO2 device, this one I made about a week ago, just a bottle, a hose leading into the tank. Used 1.6oz sugar, 1 pint water, pinch of yeast.
shawnhu
03-13-2009, 3:40 PM
Pudge, is that enough to increase CO2 in that tank? What size is it?
Those plants look like vals, and I don't think Excel works well with them, they'll melt, that's what I've heard.
Do you have a powerhead in that tank to keep water circulation moving?
Pudge, is that enough to increase CO2 in that tank? What size is it?
Those plants look like vals, and I don't think Excel works well with them, they'll melt, that's what I've heard.
Do you have a powerhead in that tank to keep water circulation moving?
I have a 29g tank, right now there are 2 DIY CO2 going on, hopefully it helps, and yes they are vals, I forgot about that, that's why I stopped excel! DOH!
I do have a power head, should I point it towards that plant do you think, or just allow it to circulate the tank?
jpappy789
03-13-2009, 5:22 PM
I doubt you get enough Co2 to keep up with that much lighting. I have to use 3 bottles on my 30 gallon with only 2wpg. I started getting hair algae and GSA until I added the other bottle. The hair algae is still lingering a little on the slower growing plants (crypts mainly)...
Jpappy, Did you also have to add extra nutrients or just increased CO2 level?
jpappy789
03-13-2009, 5:29 PM
Just Co2 in my case. I was already using the EI dosing method and I actually cut back on KH2PO4 because I am already dosing KNO3 for nitrates. Not sure if the decreased potassium made a difference though. I'm thinking my Co2 levels were fluctuating too much. It's no where near gone though so I guess I'll have to see how this goes...
debaric
03-13-2009, 5:31 PM
its amazing what a pressurized co2 system can do to algae
I'm asking these question because on my tank, I currently have no CO2 and no additional nutrients. I am about to try DIY CO2 but at a slow rate. I am a bit scared of big pH drop because I've never tried this before.
Given this, would I need to introduce additional nutrients? I'm just afraid of trippling the algae growth resulting from this experiment... :D
debaric
03-13-2009, 5:56 PM
i think the lighting has to be higher for you to need nutrients with co2, somebody correct me if i am wrong. Low light tanks can benefit from co2 but i still dont think they also need ferts.
I doubt you get enough Co2 to keep up with that much lighting. I have to use 3 bottles on my 30 gallon with only 2wpg. I started getting hair algae and GSA until I added the other bottle. The hair algae is still lingering a little on the slower growing plants (crypts mainly)...
I am only using half of my lighting so right now its basically 65w that I am using against a 29 gallon tank, so that's like what 2.4wpg? With the double dose of CO2 do you not think that it will help at all?
jpappy789
03-13-2009, 6:08 PM
I'm asking these question because on my tank, I currently have no CO2 and no additional nutrients. I am about to try DIY CO2 but at a slow rate. I am a bit scared of big pH drop because I've never tried this before.
Given this, would I need to introduce additional nutrients? I'm just afraid of trippling the algae growth resulting from this experiment... :D
Don't worry about pH drops. Your TDS will stay the same and that is what affects the fish.
I wouldn't think algae would explode from just adding Co2, in fact usually the opposite happens as a lot of planted tanks are carbon deprived and the increase in plant grow cuts back algae growth. Nutrient and lighting imbalances usually cause algae. I could be wrong though...
I am only using half of my lighting so right now its basically 65w that I am using against a 29 gallon tank, so that's like what 2.4wpg? With the double dose of CO2 do you not think that it will help at all?
It will definitely help but I'm honestly not sure to what extent. I don't have enough experience dealing with this algae to say 100% either way.
Thanks. I have a similar level of wpg as Pudge. I'm looking forward seeing the result of your experiment, Pudge.. :)
jpappy789
03-13-2009, 6:19 PM
Hmmm. I was thinking more of the "less than 2wpg" area. So...
With that lighting I would look into dry ferts, otherwise the light would be overkill compared to the plants growth rate which could lead to algae.
Sorry for hijacking Pudge.
If that's the case, I might as well reduce the lighting further to around 1.5wpg... My main focus at the moment is to get rid of algae and not let it appear in significant ways rather than to grow more difficult plants...
And my apology too for hijacking... :D
Pudge
03-14-2009, 12:17 AM
Don't worry about hijacking, we're all here to learn!! And if this can help others then go right ahead, it helps me to learn by reading it also.
If the CO2 does not give the results that I'd like, I was thinking of just doubling the output, either change from a 600ml bottle, to say a 2L and increase the volume of sugar/water/yeast (all in proportion to the size etc.) hoping that this would produce a larger C02 flow.
I have been browsing around this topic for a while since 2 weeks ago when I discovered hair algae that is going out of control. From what I have read so far, the next most logical thing to do is to do CO2 without going too fancy with nutrients. It even worked for some at our light wpg levels.
At least its something new - who knows I could get addicted into plant tanks eventually. D
Pudge
03-14-2009, 11:48 AM
This morning I woke up and noticed that there was less hair algae, but I'm not sure as of why.. I'm thinking a combination of all of the things I did, Flourish Excel (which I shouldn't have for the Vals sake..) CO2, and I noticed a couple Platies munching away at it, hopefully more is gone by tomorrow, I'll let everyone know!
jpappy789
03-14-2009, 7:47 PM
The thing with planted tanks is that each one will be considerably different. What may work for some may not work for others. You have to find your own balance.
Sadly, I've been keeping my eye on the tank, and it looks like the hair algae is continuing to spread, I think what had stopped it for a brief period of time was the Flourish Excel.
Since those do not work, and to be honest I can't afford to get pressurized CO2 right now, I was considering getting Siamese Algae Eaters, I have read that they will actually eat hair algae and are not aggressive, what is everyone's thought on this as a temporary solution?
jpappy789
03-15-2009, 7:47 PM
Nice solution, but won't solve the problem itself. They are great fish from what I have heard so I see no reason not to get some simply for the sake of having a good fish while still trying to resolve the algae issues on your own.
But...what size tank again? stock?
Size and Stock:
29g 6 Cardinal Tetra, 4 Phantom Tetra, 2 Gold Twin Bar Platy (Female, 2 Pregnant?), 1 Sunburst Platy (Female), 1 Red Platy (Male), 6 Leopard Danios
I was thinking of adding the one Siamese Algae eater because I do have algae and nothing to get rid of it, causes a lot more maintenance on my part, and sadly with work and such, I don't always get the chance to clean it as thoroughly as I'd like, as well I've been looking for a fish that does this for a while now.
jpappy789
03-15-2009, 7:51 PM
Hmm. Unsure about the tank size requirements for SAE's so I'll leave that to someone else.
From what I have read, most of the sources I have seen say 25-30 gallons, most have said 25. Can anyone else offer an opinion on this?
From what I have read, most of the sources I have seen say 25-30 gallons, most have said 25. Can anyone else offer an opinion on this?
I'm interested in knowing this too... In my application, I specified a tank with minimum footprint of 24x12, which does sound a bit too small. I think 25g is a 30x12 tank.
I'd say a 29 gallon or 30 inch tank is just about the minimum size for an SAE. They get to a good four inches, with quite a lot of body mass. I have had one alone in my 40 gallon and have had no algae problems to speak of in the past year.
They are not the most charming fish IMO, and can be a bit aggressive at feeding time, but one may take care of your hair algae problem.
Pudge
03-15-2009, 11:18 PM
Yeah, that's what I had read, and hopefully it doesn't out grow my tank, cause I would like to keep one.. Maybe in the timespan it takes for it to get that large I could get a larger aquarium also! :)
yhbae
03-15-2009, 11:44 PM
I had two SAEs (about 2 inches each) in my tank. And they do eat hair algae but not in a clean way. And they don't do a good job on the glasses as bristlenose plecos do. So I think having one is a good idea to control algae but I don't think they will get rid of it completely. As long as you have a realistic expectation, you will not be disappointed.
Pudge
03-16-2009, 10:26 AM
I had two SAEs (about 2 inches each) in my tank. And they do eat hair algae but not in a clean way. And they don't do a good job on the glasses as bristlenose plecos do. So I think having one is a good idea to control algae but I don't think they will get rid of it completely. As long as you have a realistic expectation, you will not be disappointed.
Can you clarify a little more on the "not in a clean way" comment please? :)
And I'm a little skeptical on getting another pleco as the last 2 I had died of unknown causes, I still think that I bought them underfed, and lacking nutrition.
What are the tank requirements for bristlenose plecos, and does anyone think that I'll be overstocked if I add more fish, my tank setup is the 29g in my sig.
Thanks! :)
yhbae
03-16-2009, 10:30 AM
Can you clarify a little more on the "not in a clean way" comment please? :)
And I'm a little skeptical on getting another pleco as the last 2 I had died of unknown causes, I still think that I bought them underfed, and lacking nutrition.
What are the tank requirements for bristlenose plecos, and does anyone think that I'll be overstocked if I add more fish, my tank setup is the 29g in my sig.
Thanks! :)
Not clean as in they don't eat every single hair on the leaves. For some reason, they don't touch some hairs at all. So for me, SAE did not give me a clean looking tank but it does reduce the overall amount of hair algae.
Bristlenose plecos are incredibly poopy. SAEs were no slouch either but compare to Bristlenose, they don't poop much. But bristlenose did much better job in cleaning the glass though.
yhbae
03-16-2009, 10:32 AM
What are the tank requirements for bristlenose plecos, and does anyone think that I'll be overstocked if I add more fish, my tank setup is the 29g in my sig.
Thanks! :)
And according to my program, you are currently 95% stocked - whatever its worth... haha. :D
dadiopadio
03-16-2009, 11:10 AM
I would shut the powerhead of during the day cause it puts to much oxygen in the water and takes away from the co2.the plants need co2 during the day and use more oxygen during the night when the lights are out. I could tell you how to get rid of the algae but it takes patience on your part cause all your vals might go dormant for a couple of months. this might sound crazy but it has always worked for me. (1) part non scented bleech to about (30+)parts water, only soak them for a liitle while. maybe 5 minutes or longer if need be. now your vals might seem to die off but if you trim the dead leaves, even if you have to trim them all and replant the roots they will grow back, atleast mine always did. don't try this unless you plan on having you plants dorrmant for a couple of months, good luck. this doesn,t worr with all plants
dadiopadio
03-16-2009, 11:15 AM
you could always get some true siamese algae eaters too. they will do the job as long as they are real SAE's and not a look alike
Pudge
03-16-2009, 12:59 PM
And according to my program, you are currently 95% stocked - whatever its worth... haha. :D
Haha thanks! I was trying to test that on your software but I wasn't able to get it installed, tried 3 PCs and all got the same error :(
I would shut the powerhead of during the day cause it puts to much oxygen in the water and takes away from the co2.the plants need co2 during the day and use more oxygen during the night when the lights are out. I could tell you how to get rid of the algae but it takes patience on your part cause all your vals might go dormant for a couple of months. this might sound crazy but it has always worked for me. (1) part non scented bleech to about (30+)parts water, only soak them for a liitle while. maybe 5 minutes or longer if need be. now your vals might seem to die off but if you trim the dead leaves, even if you have to trim them all and replant the roots they will grow back, atleast mine always did. don't try this unless you plan on having you plants dorrmant for a couple of months, good luck. this doesn,t worr with all plants
I would like to try doing that, but I really don't think I want to take the plants out of my tank, they're nice and rooted now and have daughter plants (both of them). Although, I was considering trimming them also, by using a razor blade on them in the tank, most of the hair algae is on the ends, and only seems to start after about 2-3 inches from the bottom.
*edit* Oh and also, I no longer have a powerhead, I took it out as it looked ugly in my tank, and I want it to be as natural as I can make it.
you could always get some true siamese algae eaters too. they will do the job as long as they are real SAE's and not a look alike
I am looking into SAEs hopefully picking one up tonight, and I'm hoping the combination of ideas will help slow down or prevent my hair algae.
Haha thanks! I was trying to test that on your software but I wasn't able to get it installed, tried 3 PCs and all got the same error :(
At a risk of completely changing the original topic, what were those errors?
They were .Net framework errors, but now that I ran it separately from the setup it works fine.. Seems to give me that every time after I run the setup and it auto-opens it.
They were .Net framework errors, but now that I ran it separately from the setup it works fine.. Seems to give me that every time after I run the setup and it auto-opens it.
So it works ok now?
So it works ok now?
Yeah, odd, but it does!
Oh, and everyone, I did end up picking up a Siamese algae eater! :) I'll keep everyone informed as to whether it helps or not.
yhbae
03-17-2009, 11:46 AM
Hopefully you picked up the true SAE... :D
Pudge
03-17-2009, 12:03 PM
The Hair algae seems to have spread to the vast majority of my plants, and I don't want it to overrun my tank. In everyone's opinion, would pressurized CO2 resolve this?
Pudge
03-18-2009, 12:10 PM
Alright, so the SAE seems to be slow but so far effective, my mat of hair algae is slowly leaving.
Alright, so the SAE seems to be slow but so far effective, my mat of hair algae is slowly leaving.
Its pretty good until they grow to a larger size. How big is yours?
Also, make sure you don't feed too much. If they get the taste of normal fish food, they are known to stop eat algae...
Today I did bloodworms, but didn't see it move toward them at all, and same goes for yesterday with tropical flakes. Right now it's about 2 inches long, and based on the characteristics, and colours I'm fairly certain it is an authentic SAE :)
Today I did bloodworms, but didn't see it move toward them at all, and same goes for yesterday with tropical flakes. Right now it's about 2 inches long, and based on the characteristics, and colours I'm fairly certain it is an authentic SAE :)
For me, SAE didn't go after food for the first week or so. It probably didn't realize they are food. But after one week, it became one of the most aggressive fish in the tank going after food.
Ok, so 3 days are over. I took off the casing around it and revealed the tank. Initially I thought it didn't work as all hair algae I could see was still visible at the same places and looked as hairy as ever! But I took one shell out and rubbed it in water then realized they do come off much more easily than before. If I use a toothbrush I am pretty sure I can get it off clean but not bad even with my fingers. Same thing on the plant leaves. Those hair algaes growing at the edge of leaves were near impossible to take off before due to delicacy of leaves but now I can take most of them off. Some are still visible though, but clearly shorter than before. Hard to tell if they are dead or not. I guess hair algaes "snapped off" in some cases.
Due to masses of floating hair algae pieces, I did a water change, I fed fishes very lightly and they are back into dark again... :D
I am going to keep it dark for another day or two and see if I can get rid of all of them.
One thing I noticed, these Occies were getting all hyper. Even the little ones were attacking my hands. They never dared to do that before... haha. :D
Pudge
03-19-2009, 10:41 AM
Ok, so 3 days are over. I took off the casing around it and revealed the tank. Initially I thought it didn't work as all hair algae I could see was still visible at the same places and looked as hairy as ever! But I took one shell out and rubbed it in water then realized they do come off much more easily than before. If I use a toothbrush I am pretty sure I can get it off clean but not bad even with my fingers. Same thing on the plant leaves. Those hair algaes growing at the edge of leaves were near impossible to take off before due to delicacy of leaves but now I can take most of them off. Some are still visible though, but clearly shorter than before. Hard to tell if they are dead or not. I guess hair algaes "snapped off" in some cases.
Due to masses of floating hair algae pieces, I did a water change, I fed fishes very lightly and they are back into dark again... :D
I am going to keep it dark for another day or two and see if I can get rid of all of them.
One thing I noticed, these Occies were getting all hyper. Even the little ones were attacking my hands. They never dared to do that before... haha. :D
Well that's good news, it has proven to do at least a little good so far, hopefully the next round will fully eradicate the algae!!!
yhbae
03-19-2009, 10:55 AM
Well that's good news, it has proven to do at least a little good so far, hopefully the next round will fully eradicate the algae!!!
I am pretty happy with the results, I just want it out 100%. :D
Yeah, I can imagine, mines not stopping :(, I'm hoping that my pressurized CO2 gets here soon so I can see if that helps >.<, also I was looking at some shrimp to add to the tank :).. but I think I may already have too many fish in it.
Yeah, I can imagine, mines not stopping :(, I'm hoping that my pressurized CO2 gets here soon so I can see if that helps >.<, also I was looking at some shrimp to add to the tank :).. but I think I may already have too many fish in it.
Although your stock level seem pretty close to full, I think it will handle some shrimps.
I hope so, they are neat little creatures, and also I've heard they love to munch on algae! :)
leocom2000
03-20-2009, 10:41 AM
My empathy,. Here is what I am fighting. It would not go away. I have pressurised CO2, dose KNO3, KPO4, and KSO4. Change 20-30% of water every week. I test my water regularly for NO3, PO4, and PH. I used 500ml of EXEL. Nothing helped so far.
yhbae
03-20-2009, 10:48 AM
Ouch that really looks terrible....
yhbae
03-20-2009, 10:51 AM
Another update. After the end of 4th day, I decided to stop blackout. Most of it can be cleaned by gentle scrubbing with my fingers now. Most of it is gone on the leaves and shells. I cannot do much about those hairs that are within the pile of java moss so I hope they will simply die away and not cause any spikes. Given that my nitrate level is still zero, I think I will be ok.
I'm going to put the timer on for 8 hours, probably cut into two 4 hours (or even 3 hours) periods and see if that also helps. I read from somewhere that leaves really need 4 continuous hours at least to do any decent about of photosynthesis - is there any truth in this information?
I'm going to also cover up the front glass of the aquarium (the other 3 sides are already covered in black) while I am not around. Hopefully this will stop any ambient light from getting in. This might tell me something else.
One interesting thing I noticed - the part of the spray bar located nearer towards the front glass seems to have more algae than the back portion. Perhaps my algae is affected partially from having too much ambient light during the day. This room does not receive that much light but ceiling fluorescent light is on most of the time. Hmmm.
leocom2000, I am sorry to see that..
What are the params in the tank? and how long have you had it? have you also tried blacking out.. so far I do every second day a small dose of excel, and it seems to be helping a little.. my SAE is slowly eating algae but not the longer strands, I'm possibly going to get some Red Cherry Shrimp, cause' I like them and I hear they also eat string algae, I will update with anymore progress.
leocom2000, I am sorry to see that..
What are the params in the tank? and how long have you had it? have you also tried blacking out.. so far I do every second day a small dose of excel, and it seems to be helping a little.. my SAE is slowly eating algae but not the longer strands, I'm possibly going to get some Red Cherry Shrimp, cause' I like them and I hear they also eat string algae, I will update with anymore progress.
What else do you have in that tank? RCS will become a nice snack for many fishes. I'm going to breed RCS soon so I'm going to find out soon enough but at least that's what I have been told.
Pudge
03-21-2009, 12:56 AM
What else do you have in that tank? RCS will become a nice snack for many fishes. I'm going to breed RCS soon so I'm going to find out soon enough but at least that's what I have been told.
The fish in my signature are what's in my tank, nothing really big enough to "eat" them.. just to nibble;
4 Platy (2 in seperate tank for now)
4 Phantom Tetra
6 Cardinal Tetra
6 Leopard Danio
1 SAE
1 Random Snail (1/4 the size of a dime)
I was also looking to possibly breed them in a 1/3rd of my 10 G tank, then once they are hatched, move the parents back to the 29G, and then repeat as necessary :)
The fish in my signature are what's in my tank, nothing really big enough to "eat" them.. just to nibble;
4 Platy (2 in seperate tank for now)
4 Phantom Tetra
6 Cardinal Tetra
6 Leopard Danio
1 SAE
1 Random Snail (1/4 the size of a dime)
I was also looking to possibly breed them in a 1/3rd of my 10 G tank, then once they are hatched, move the parents back to the 29G, and then repeat as necessary :)
The problem is that they will malt at some point. Do you have much plants in that tank? I wonder if anyone had luck keeping shrimps with platies on this forum. I had ghost shrimps disappear on me in a tank that had both platies and german blue rams before.
Yeah, I have setup a 10g to breed them too. :)
Pudge
03-21-2009, 12:26 PM
I have some plantlife in my tank, corkscrew vals x4, Juncus Repens x3 (shaved off tips to make 3 more :)) and one smaller piece of lava rock.. I think they should be alright.
yhbae
03-21-2009, 12:35 PM
I have some plantlife in my tank, corkscrew vals x4, Juncus Repens x3 (shaved off tips to make 3 more :)) and one smaller piece of lava rock.. I think they should be alright.
Cool. Good luck with the shrimps. :)
One interesting thing I noticed about hair algae now. I've been keeping the tank dark when the light isn't on by covering the top and the front glass. I've also split 8 hours of light into 2 x 4 hours (one in the morning and one during the evening/night). I'm not sure what did it but I no longer have out of control hair algae growth! Even with 2.5wpg. I have a feeling that indirect sunlight during the day must have contributed to the algae growth. The room is far from bright but the fact that algae was growing faster near the front glass and now much slower growth leads me to believe that algae can utilize even not-so-bright indirect sunlight.
Too early to conclude but it looks promising. What s*cks though is that I have to cover the tank when I am not around. Not a big deal but not ideal either... :D
One interesting thing I noticed about hair algae now. I've been keeping the tank dark when the light isn't on by covering the top and the front glass. I've also split 8 hours of light into 2 x 4 hours (one in the morning and one during the evening/night). I'm not sure what did it but I no longer have out of control hair algae growth! Even with 2.5wpg. I have a feeling that indirect sunlight during the day must have contributed to the algae growth. The room is far from bright but the fact that algae was growing faster near the front glass and now much slower growth leads me to believe that algae can utilize even not-so-bright indirect sunlight.
Too early to conclude but it looks promising. What s*cks though is that I have to cover the tank when I am not around. Not a big deal but not ideal either... :D
I make sure that if I have my window open (not that near to my tank, probably about 20-25ft) I turn off my tank lights, I think I may try splitting the sunlight hours maybe 4 on, 2 off 4 on again, and see what that does also.
Alright, so after today, I went back to my aquarium and it was still getting much worse the hair algae on the gravel was getting to be nearly an inch in places, and my 1 of my juncus repens plant was overly covered.. For now I have taken off my 2x65w CF light (I'm not very happy with doing so because it cost me $250...) and replaced it with my 2x13w 6500 Daylight DIY light. I hope that this will kill off the hair algae until my Pressurized CO2 gets here, then I'll put back my CF bulbs..
*edit* Also, yhbae, my LFS doesn't have RCS anymore :( they have ordered some though for me, and they will hopefully be in by next Tues!
Dangit! I couldn't do it, after making the change my tank just looked like crap, with poorer lighting in my planted tank, I didn't even really want to look at it.. I put my other light back on running at half capacity, and I'm going to be taking all my preventative measures.
*edit* so back to the 4 on, 2 off, 4 on lighting, dosing excel after it is mixed in nicely with the water as to not do as much harm to the vals, heavier water changes (did a 40% today) and get my shrimp!
Haha I can almost feeling what you are going through. :)
When is your CO2 coming?
They told me 1-2 weeks, today is the 1 week mark, I'm hoping it will be here by latest Friday, I can't wait for it!
Good luck. :)
Thanks, I'm going to post when I get it, and put it in the tank, then await the results, likely give daily updates.
beeZer350
03-30-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm starting to get a some hair algae on some of my plants. I don't want to have to dose Excel because of the anacharis but I might have to. I'll just keep the doses well below the recommendations.
Pudge
03-30-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm starting to get a some hair algae on some of my plants. I don't want to have to dose Excel because of the anacharis but I might have to. I'll just keep the doses well below the recommendations.
My hair algae, is getting further out of control it is about an inch to an inch and a half, I don't think that my SAE can keep it under control, still no sign of my pressurized CO2, making me a little peeved, but nothing I can really do at the present time.
About your dosing of Excel, it seemed to help me when I had small amounts of it, but it is doing nothing now. If you're going to put it in at all, I'd say do it in small amounts, and dilute it during a water change.. that is what I usually do, and it doesn't seem to harm my vals anywhere near as much as it had done when I dosed the full amount the first time.
beeZer350
03-30-2009, 2:01 PM
Interesting, thanks.
I have no plans of going with CO2 since I'm only running about 1.8wpg. At first I thought the hair algae was a result of the ferts (I was thinking the phosphate levels were the culprit) I was dosing so I cut those out about 3 weeks ago and combined that with a 72hr blackout. Everything looked good after the blackout but it's slowly creeping back.
Nitrates stay consistent at 10ppm.
One thing I have heard/read is that if you introduce more plants into the tank, that could take all of the nutrients, etc. away from the hair algae growth.. I haven't tested this method, but maybe that could work?
beeZer350
03-30-2009, 2:14 PM
I have a good amount of anacharis which is a pretty fast grower. A handful of different anubias, some java fern and a couple amazon swords. Once things grow in there won't be room for anything else. :)
Well that throws the theory on that right out the window! haha. So I'm a little peeved off now.. Just found out today that the Pressurized CO2 that I ordered, is "SOLD OUT".. I ordered it 2 weeks ago, and they weren't able to tell me anytime until now that it's sold out, I'm not very happy with this, and now I'm going to have to see what other alternative I can do to try and get rid of my hair algae.
And to top that.. I called my LFS, who said they would have some Red Cherry Shrimp in by yesterday night or this morning, yeah, they said they didn't get any after I was told they would order some for this week, and I now have to check in next week!! GAH, bad day for my aquarium! :(
I'm pretty sure just by having more plants in your tank will not solve your algae problem. May be you need fast growing plants, don't know. My tank now has lots of Java Moss and they are thriving. But hair algae is also doing quite well... lol. They are doing especially well inside the clumps of Java Moss so I have to pull apart Java Moss during each water change and remove handful of hair algae. At least after starting this routine, hair algae looks fine and water is crystal clear.
Pudge
04-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Alright, so I've been able to finally get some half-decent pictures of my hair algae.
Here they are, as you'll be able to see I have a nice mat of it growing.
Yeah, I hate those....
It must be the amount of light. When I reduced hours further, it is now under control but I still remove some manually when I do water changes. Currently I have no algae eating fish in the tank.
I am still going to reduce the light to 1.5wpg and see if that helps. I think I will buy my own SAE this time and add may be just one in the tank.
I saw your other post too - I am also thinking of some shrimps. Cherry and/or Amano.
Yeah, I think it's the amount of light also.. and unless I want to get rid of my current light which cost me too much to do so, I'm going to have to find other methods :(
I have an SAE in my tank but it doesn't seem to even make a dent in the hair algae. I was looking into the shrimp solution, and if you're interested also, here's some helpful information when thinking between RCS/Amano shrimp (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188992)
Yeah, I think it's the amount of light also.. and unless I want to get rid of my current light which cost me too much to do so, I'm going to have to find other methods :(
I have an SAE in my tank but it doesn't seem to even make a dent in the hair algae. I was looking into the shrimp solution, and if you're interested also, here's some helpful information when thinking between RCS/Amano shrimp (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188992)
I think it goes back to what others have been saying all long from the beginning - I don't think living creatures can get rid of all hair algae caused by too much light. I am looking into RCS/Amano route too but only after convincing myself that I am not going to be overrun by hair algae again.
You do have one more possibility though - injected CO2 when it gets to you eventually... :D
Oh and my friend has both Rosy Barb and Florida Flag Fish. I may "borrow" them and see if they eat these hair algae.
SAEs I borrowed from them before did eat short hair algae strings and the nasty brown bush algae when they were lightly fed.
Pudge
04-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Oh and my friend has both Rosy Barb and Florida Flag Fish. I may "borrow" them and see if they eat these hair algae.
SAEs I borrowed from them before did eat short hair algae strings and the nasty brown bush algae when they were lightly fed.
My SAE eats the short ones as well, but does not touch the long ones.. also, I found out that I'm not going to be getting the pressurized CO2 I ordered.. they decided to tell me 2 weeks after ordering that they were sold out :(.
My SAE eats the short ones as well, but does not touch the long ones.. also, I found out that I'm not going to be getting the pressurized CO2 I ordered.. they decided to tell me 2 weeks after ordering that they were sold out :(.
Ouch, without CO2, your light is going to be too much.
Pudge
04-04-2009, 11:45 PM
Ouch, without CO2, your light is going to be too much.
Yeah, it kinda sucks, now I'm going to have to search for another place where I can find a good price for a pressurized CO2 system.. If anyone knows of one, please post a link! :)
Yeah, it kinda sucks, now I'm going to have to search for another place where I can find a good price for a pressurized CO2 system.. If anyone knows of one, please post a link! :)
Good luck. :)
I just finished setting up a separate 10g tank for shrimps and snails only - for breeding/raising purposes. Its driven by a sponge filter and I just added 4 amano shrimps and some java moss from that tank that is infested with hair algae. After about 1 hour, they started to cling on the java moss and started to eat something - not sure what yet. I hope they eat those hair algae. My plan is to rotate some plants from the infested tank into this tank. Not the best way to get rid of algae but at least I am going to find out how good they eat hair algae. :D
I'm also looking for some nerites and debating on which other compatible shrimps. I found both Cherry and Snowball but if you keep both, they will hybridize. :(
yhbae
04-06-2009, 10:53 PM
Hey Pudge, I added 3 Rosy Barbs borrowed from my friend. They DO eat hair algaes, especially the long ones. I saw one of them that eats it like we eat spaghetti - starts at one end and keeps pulling it out until it snaps. I saw the other one pull strings stuck on Java Fern leaves.
I'm gonna monitor them for few days to see if they continue but so far it looks pretty good.
Amano shrimps definitely eat something inside Java Moss. I have tonnes of their poop and their body has one dark continuous like starting at the head and ends outside of their body... :D
Pudge
04-06-2009, 11:45 PM
Hey Pudge, I added 3 Rosy Barbs borrowed from my friend. They DO eat hair algaes, especially the long ones. I saw one of them that eats it like we eat spaghetti - starts at one end and keeps pulling it out until it snaps. I saw the other one pull strings stuck on Java Fern leaves.
I'm gonna monitor them for few days to see if they continue but so far it looks pretty good.
Amano shrimps definitely eat something inside Java Moss. I have tonnes of their poop and their body has one dark continuous like starting at the head and ends outside of their body... :D
That is definitely good news, I'll have to get my 10g set up as a separate species tank if that works, so I don't overstock, and can get rid of my hair algae! :)!! Thank you for letting me know, please keep me updated with the progress!!
Looks like after 1 day, most of hair algae in my Java moss (when spread, about 7 inches wide).
I also put a small Java Fern with hair algae and BBA about 1 hour ago. They started to eat even BBA! I'm gonna find out in few hours how they progress. :)
I guess I can cycle between plants with algae and real food eventually.
fl4ian
04-08-2009, 12:08 AM
are you talking about the amanos or the rosy barbs eating the hair algae and the BBA?
are you talking about the amanos or the rosy barbs eating the hair algae and the BBA?
I believe he was referring to the barbs.. but correct me if I'm wrong!
Actually it is my amanos eating both types of algaes.
I've now been observing barbs for 2 days and making conclusion that I don't think they are that great in terms of eating algae. I see them pull some hair algae off but they are not actively looking for them. And I fed nothing during the last two days in the tank. I finally gave in and just fed them decent food (NLS pellets). The whole tank went crazy. :)
Amanos on the other hand, are really good with algaes. They managed to remove most of the pesky hair algae berried inside Java Moss. I switched with another Java Moss bunch from the main tank and they are at it again. They also ate BBA on Java Ferns that I have placed in the shrimp tank. They don't eat clean but I would say they ate about 70% of them. Its amazing that they find these new plants within seconds after placing them in the tank. This Java Fern is only like 1 inch tall and within 1 min, two of them are on it already.
After 2.5 days, I finally fed shrimps some real food too. I fed them 1mm NLS pelletes. They found those 10 grains or so I dropped in the tank within seconds and ran away with them... Looking at them, I think next time I am going to feed them the growth pelletes - 1mm pelletes look like water melons on them. :D
Now that I spoiled their diet, it will be interesting to see if they continue to eat algae... haha.
Oh by the way, I also switched the light to 1.5wpg... Now I don't see ANY hair algae forming on the rear glass. I used to have to clean it every 2 days or so because they seed and settle in that glass but it looked really clean now after 2.5 days.
The moral of the story, I think, is if you don't have high light plants, weaker light is the best thing you can do to control algae... And sell all fishes that could eat your amano and buy some of those. :D
yhbae
04-09-2009, 11:58 PM
Amanos have no problem going back to algae after eating NLS pellets. After eating couple of those grains they searched for more but after few hours they went back to algae again. I think switching between algae and these pellets will work ok.
I've added 4 more now. :D
colinsk
04-10-2009, 1:14 AM
I would say the best tools I have found for algae is fast growing plants, keep water flowing everywhere in the tank and make sure the phosphates don't clime above a 1 to 10 ratio with nitrates. This might mean you have to add nitrates.
I have wondered if adding CaCl will precipitate the phosphates. It should create Ca(H2PO4)2 and then precipitate as an insoluable powder. It works in plain water but of course there is lots of other chemistries going on in an aquarium. Like iron bonding with phosphates. I'll have to play with it one day.
If I get so much growth that I choke the water flow at the surface near the brightest part of the tank I always get hair algae. All I have to do is prune it so there is water flow and it goes away.
I would say the best tools I have found for algae is fast growing plants, keep water flowing everywhere in the tank and make sure the phosphates don't clime above a 1 to 10 ratio with nitrates. This might mean you have to add nitrates.
I have wondered if adding CaCl will precipitate the phosphates. It should create Ca(H2PO4)2 and then precipitate as an insoluable powder. It works in plain water but of course there is lots of other chemistries going on in an aquarium. Like iron bonding with phosphates. I'll have to play with it one day.
If I get so much growth that I choke the water flow at the surface near the brightest part of the tank I always get hair algae. All I have to do is prune it so there is water flow and it goes away.
I'm not sure if I speak for the majority but I don't want to turn all my tanks into fast plant growing tanks. They have additional requirements that makes it more tricky to maintain (and higher cost) and if any one of those thing go off, then you have a problem. Having some plants are always beneficial so I also suggest to everyone to have some easy plants (which are low light slow growing plants) but if you have to deal with fast growing ones, that's a different story.
I personally would like to try one heavily planted tanks with fast growing plants as they do look interesting and is yet another form of a challenge. But not in all of my tanks. :)
Are there any fast growing plants that do not require high light, CO2 and fertilizers?
If I get so much growth that I choke the water flow at the surface near the brightest part of the tank I always get hair algae. All I have to do is prune it so there is water flow and it goes away.
For some reason, in my case, hair algaes grow on plants that are placed directly where water falls off from the HOB filter. This is the area with the most amount of water flow in the tank.
Nothing really helped up to this point except reducing light intensity which has worked nicely.
colinsk
04-10-2009, 11:09 AM
My 29 gallon tank has water sprite, dwarf lilly and red fox tail that I have to prune weekly with no fertz, 55 watts of light and no C02 or Excel. Underneath I have slow growing low light plants. They get shadowed and this is OK for them. I encourage the fast growing plants to grow "emergent" so they can take CO2 from the air. I only have an inch between the water line and the hood but that seems to be enough.
Other than phosphates I have no water quality issues.
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrites
0 Nitrates
I change water to keep phosphates below 1.
My 29 gallon tank has water sprite, dwarf lilly and red fox tail that I have to prune weekly with no fertz, 55 watts of light and no C02 or Excel. Underneath I have slow growing low light plants. They get shadowed and this is OK for them. I encourage the fast growing plants to grow "emergent" so they can take CO2 from the air. I only have an inch between the water line and the hood but that seems to be enough.
Other than phosphates I have no water quality issues.
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrites
0 Nitrates
I change water to keep phosphates below 1.
I'll look into those plants. Thanks. :)