Good inverts for a community tank?

[Smitty114]

Hi I'm new to the site and I'm glad I found it. I'm sure the question has been answered, but I searched forever and couldn't find one.

Anyway, I'll soon have a 75g tank and wanted some kind of invert critter(s) at the bottom to go along with all the fish. I originally wanted a Crayfish but heard that they'll eat all the fish. Is there a non-aggressive type? And, if the Cray is in an aggressive tank with fish as big or bigger than itself, will it refrain from attacking the fish?

Then I heard about shrimp who won't eat the fish, but may get eaten by the fish.

What about crabs?

I'd really like to have some sort of invert at the bottom, but I don't want snails, etc.

If there's an answer, about how many of these should I get for a 75g community or aggressive tank?

Thanks!!

[jmhart]

Well, it really depends on the fish.

Loaches will eat any and all snails and shrimp. Some fish are shrimp safe, some are not.

So, what fish do you currently have?

[msjinkzd]

Yes, let us know your stocking plans and we can give you a better idea of what might work

[Smitty114]

Well, I obviously haven't completely finished everything since I don't have the aquarium yet, I've just been doing lots of research. I was probably going to get 2 bala sharks and some other things that would go with it. Any crab, shrimp, or cray that could mesh with these?

If not, I could go with a community tank with smaller and less aggressive, schooling type fish, in which case a shrimp or crab would probably have a better chance of survival, but obviously a cray wouldn't work in this type.

[msjinkzd]

If you go with the more peaceful community, there are a wide range of snails (nerites, pomacea bridgesii/diffusa), shrimp (most likely amanos, though cherries might work depending on what size fish, or bamboo shrimp) that may work.

[Arakkis]

what Rach said is good, there are also thai micro crabs... but depends on you fish as these guys are tiny

[Smitty114]

If you go with the more peaceful community, there are a wide range of snails (nerites, pomacea bridgesii/diffusa), shrimp (most likely amanos, though cherries might work depending on what size fish, or bamboo shrimp) that may work.
Thanks for the info. I'm not really into snails so I doubt I get those, but which of these shrimp are the biggest and most active? I guess color is important too, I know the cherry ones have color.

[Smitty114]

what Rach said is good, there are also thai micro crabs... but depends on you fish as these guys are tiny
Thanks for the help. I am definitely into crabs, would these guys need brackish water or land/beach to get out of the water? And, is there a bigger version of crab that could work with a larger fish?

Would a pleco disturb these?

[mellowvision]

I've been looking into crabs, and right now, the best bet for freshwater are vampire crabs.

fiddlers and red claws ought to have brackish water. Vampires do not.

red claws and fiddlers both can get nippy with the fish, and are known to catch guppies etc. vampires can not open their claws wide enough to catch fish.

and they have been known to breed in tank.

They do, however, need land... but from experience, paludariums are way more satisfying than a full tank... I'd highly reccomend vampire crabs.

the largest, active shrimp I'd consider are Amanos... but bamboo shrimp get larger still, big in fact. They're just not that active. They like to perch and filter in one spot for days... if they're happy with the tank that is.

what you keep really depends more on your plans for fish. keep the fish small and avoid the more aggressive crustacean eaters... no botia! and you won't have a problem with even the cherries, crs, etc. you probably won't see babies, but you shouldn't lose many either. they're smarter than fish.

[Smitty114]

About the crabs, that's interesting. But, I'd rather have them in the community tank, I don't want a lot of tanks and/or just a crab tank.

Has anyone tried the Underwater Islands for crabs? http://www.crabhomes.com/products/1/Under_water_Islands.html

Seems like this would work as you can feed them through this at the bottom of the aquarium, they can get fresh air and dry land. You think it would work?

[vampie]

I never like the idea of those.. they look so unnatural and seem so limiting to crabs like Red claws and Fiddlers, which spend a lot of time and activity on land. And with the airline attached, you're giving them an easy way to crawl out of your tank.

[Smitty114]

I never like the idea of those.. they look so unnatural and seem so limiting to crabs like Red claws and Fiddlers, which spend a lot of time and activity on land. And with the airline attached, you're giving them an easy way to crawl out of your tank.
What about the vampire?

I'm sure the airhole is small enough to keep them out, hopefully. But, in a bigger tank like the one I was thinking of getting, I could put it towards the back so it's not standing out like a sore thumb. Plus, some of those aren't small and they'd definitely have moving room. But, I understand your point. If I ever try it out I'll report the results.

[pixl8r]

What about the vampire?

I'm sure the airhole is small enough to keep them out, hopefully. But, in a bigger tank like the one I was thinking of getting, I could put it towards the back so it's not standing out like a sore thumb. Plus, some of those aren't small and they'd definitely have moving room. But, I understand your point. If I ever try it out I'll report the results.

Vampire crabs (Geosesarma sp.) would not do well in an established (or semi established) community tank. They really need a vivarium (mostly land, small pool of water), like Mellowvision said. If you ever do decide to get marine crabs (fiddler or red claw crab), check out the paludariums Mellow made, excellent designs.

One other type of shrimp that has not been discussed are Macrobrachium. There are many that are notoriously aggressive, and others that have the temperament of a guppy.

I would recommend M. dayanum (Red Claw shrimp) or M. lanchasteri (Whisker shrimp) for a community tank. M dayanum are docile towards fish, and, in my tanks at least, have never harmed a snail. M. lanchasteri is similar, but may be more aggressive. They are not in my tanks, but some have reported that they can be. They both reproduce in freshwater, though the M. lanchasteri aren't as prolific, as their young go through a few larval stages, so fish would be more likely to munch on them.

There's also M. kulsiense, Pearl/sand/snowflake shrimp, but they are extremly docile, and are easily stressed by fish. They are as harmless as a shrimp can be, but don't do well in community tanks.

Crayfish will tend to shred any living plants, but there are plenty of docile species to pick from, mostly dwarf species.

I don't know about the Thai micro crabs, but I do plan on getting some soon. My primary interest is in shrimp, but I've had crayfish and crab phases. Arrakis had some for sale, though I don't know if there are any left.

Good luck!

[mellowvision]

yeah, I don't think one of those crab bubbles would do it... they really need to be able to express their instinct. in the case of red claws, they need to burrow, and ideally, so that the water level is the bottom of their cave. in the case of vampires, they are climbers and would want the birds eye view but never be able to find it, without leaving the tank, so that would be their ultimate demise.

if you want a full aquarium, stick with fish and shrimp. honestly, shrimp complicate things quite a bit, have different needs than the fish, and are sensitive to meds, etc... you might have an easier go with just fish.

did I just say that?
I like my shrimp far more than any of my fish. except maybe my hatchets.

[vampie]

What about the vampire?

I'm sure the airhole is small enough to keep them out, hopefully. But, in a bigger tank like the one I was thinking of getting, I could put it towards the back so it's not standing out like a sore thumb. Plus, some of those aren't small and they'd definitely have moving room. But, I understand your point. If I ever try it out I'll report the results.

I'd believe those require a lot of land as well. You have to keep in mind these crabs are more terrestrial than aquatic.

You could try looking into the larger aquatic crabs like Panthers, Rusties and the ones from Lake Malawi and Tanganyikan, etc, but I *think* most of them will hunt and eat fish.

[Smitty114]

I'd believe those require a lot of land as well. You have to keep in mind these crabs are more terrestrial than aquatic.

You could try looking into the larger aquatic crabs like Panthers, Rusties and the ones from Lake Malawi and Tanganyikan, etc, but I *think* most of them will hunt and eat fish.
Yeah, they probably would.

Thanks for all the input y'all.

I've narrowed down my wants and I'm thinking of going with about 2 bala sharks, a red tailed shark, a school of glofish and possibly some other things, but that will probably be the starter. It could change, though.

I just really wanted to be able to have some type of critter invert on the bottom, seems there would be something, but I guess not. Crayfish may eat my fish and the shrimp will be eaten, and crabs require land.

Would a crayfish not work if the fish are big enough, though? For example once the sharks get big enough (6+ inches), would a cray be able to hunt them? It wouldn't seem so but I know crays are great and aggressive hunters. Plus, if the cray were too small then the shark would probably snack on the cray, right? Would a 4-5+ inch cray likely get devoured?

[pixl8r]

...[edit]...

if you want a full aquarium, stick with fish and shrimp. honestly, shrimp complicate things quite a bit, have different needs than the fish, and are sensitive to meds, etc... you might have an easier go with just fish.

did I just say that?
I like my shrimp far more than any of my fish. except maybe my hatchets.

BLASPHEMY! :lipssealedsmilie: Where's the lighter fluid?

[pixl8r]

Yeah, they probably would.

Thanks for all the input y'all.

I've narrowed down my wants and I'm thinking of going with about 2 bala sharks, a red tailed shark, a school of glofish and possibly some other things, but that will probably be the starter. It could change, though.

I just really wanted to be able to have some type of critter invert on the bottom, seems there would be something, but I guess not. Crayfish may eat my fish and the shrimp will be eaten, and crabs require land.

Would a crayfish not work if the fish are big enough, though? For example once the sharks get big enough (6+ inches), would a cray be able to hunt them? It wouldn't seem so but I know crays are great and aggressive hunters. Plus, if the cray were too small then the shark would probably snack on the cray, right? Would a 4-5+ inch cray likely get devoured?

With the fish you're thinking of, any crustacean would be at serious risk. You could try it, but remember, crayfish molt. At such times, anything can take a chunk out of them.

You could try some, but I would not spend much money on an 'exotic' dwarf crayfish, if it's just going to be dinner.

[Lolfish197]

Yeah, I checked this out and I am definitely purchase one if I include vampire crabs in my 55.

[huffmagx]

I didn't think I was into snails either but I have been converted ( can I get a Yeah Sister!)
If you are judging from the "pet store" snails as I was and you can buy them their sometimes but not in all their forms and glorious colors!
I have some Pomcea Brigs that I got from a member on AC in my heavily planted 55 and I love them they add another level of life to the aquarium that is just not there with fish only. Some of my Brigs are huge now (a BIG golf ball!!) and quite commical to watch!!

I'm not trying to talk you into something you don't want just letting you know my experience with them. They do not seem to bother my cherry shrimp either no matter how big they get.

Good Luck to you!