Box Pond Build

[cguarino30]

So we recently bought our first home, and after years of not being able to have a project larger than fixing the hinge on a door, I finally get to make something big. My wonderful, wonderful wife said I could put in a pond, as long as I make one that the new baby won't be able to find her way into, which is a reasonable compromise as far as I'm concerned. haha. So, I decided to make a smallish box pond mostly for seasonal gardening and fishkeeping, and found a great spot for it:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/Sdu_GJvlw9I/AAAAAAAAMJ4/faUYCA8ILYw/placement.JPG


I want to have a lower level for a bog garden to help with nitrates etc, and I'd like some nice waterflow feature on the side for the overflow. I was thinking something like a flume, but maybe with steps or rocks to make more of a splashing effect. Something like this (splashing effect not included in diagram):

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/Sdu_F8a-aaI/AAAAAAAAMJw/PEmZGGPnyJ4/s576/pond.JPG

My only two concerns are thus:
1) that gutter running along the corner of the house might be trouble to get around
2) I would have to keep the height of the open water area below the window, and I don't know if that will be high enough to deter any would-be-aquatic toddlers.

I was also thinking I might push the whole thing back to the next corner, and have basically the same design except taller and not as long. Any ideas from the room?

[cguarino30]

and also, what would be the best way to attach the liner? I was thinking I could either tack it up with a nailed in bar of wood or maybe even bring it all the way to the top and place a bunch of pavestones or flagstones or something around the perimeter to help it match the patio. Would that work?

[BoCoMo]

I will be watching this thread! Can't wait to see how it ends up! Cool build!

[cguarino30]

_

[cguarino30]

Ok, so now I'm thinking, to deal with the gutter, maybe I could just chop it off at pond level and feed it into the pond. Would this be a bad idea? Does anyone know of anything about the roof that would contaminate the water? I assume it would be virtually pure rainwater, since anything water-soluble would have to have washed away in the 6 years since the roof was installed. Any ideas?

[Jennie Beth]

Cguarino30,
Not sure where you live...do you have to put moss control stuff on your roof? What about leaves, needles, etc that would normally be shuffling down the gutters? There was another thread on here somewhere with a person asking about runoff from the roof...can't find it at the moment. (It might have been old. I like to putter around in the old threads sometimes :) Would it work to catch some of the rainwater in a bucket and test it? Like you would with water before you add it to an aquarium? Or...rather than go around your gutter, why not put an elbow in the gutter to go around the pond and then to the ground...?

Hope some of these ramblings help!
Jen

Found the thread but not sure how to get you to it..
it was on 2/10/09, by snapping247. I searched the pond forum using 'gutter' and it was one of only three that came up.

[cguarino30]

thanks, Jennie. that helps a lot. I don't think it's treated for moss, but I've decided I don't want to risk it. Instead, I'm going to find a way to route the gutter around the box.


Also, I've included an update to the design. I've decided to go with the following construction. I am going to frame the walls with pressure treated 4x4s, and on the inside of each frame, I'm going to fill the wall in with 1x6 or 1x8 or something like that. The one major design change in the new diagram is the flume. I've extended the bog garden around the corner of the larger box, and run the flume to the bottom of the bog, instead of the top. This way, I don't have to worry about the extra angles in constuction, or extending the walls above that side of the bog to keep the water from running over. Also, I'm hoping this design will help reduce splashing at the bottom of the flume, and subsequently water loss. I should be able to take measurements and start collecting materials tomorrow.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/Sdwn3pwsemI/AAAAAAAAMKw/QvWDAe1WZI8/s576/Copy%20of%20pond.JPG

[mellowvision]

have you considered the possibility of having an underwater window into the pond, from inside the house?

[cguarino30]

have you considered the possibility of having an underwater window into the pond, from inside the house?


Funny you should say that, I have actually been toying with the idea. Unfortunately I have decided that while it would be completely awesome, I'm not quite up to that challenge just yet. This is going to be my first pond build. Maybe in a couple years I'll try something like that.

[cguarino30]

alright, so I was thinking about my design, and it's not going to work the way I've planned out the wood, so I changed it. I'm keeping the pt 4x4 frame, but instead of putting an extra bracer in the middle and nailing in wide boards horizontally, I'm just going to make the inner boards vertical. This way, I can fit them all, and more importantly, the water weight will be more evenly distributed across more, shorter boards, and make the box sturdier and less prone to any bowing. There will also be a gap between the two boxes that will be an extension of the gutter, solving my runoff problem, and giving me a wider platform on which to put rocks.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/Sd1o0JC7LII/AAAAAAAAMMY/lOzok86An0M/s576/Copy%20of%20pond.JPG

[cguarino30]

Alright, got all the measurements down. The bigger box is going to be 5' by 8' with a height of 2' 8" and the smaller bog box is going to be 11' by 1', and 1' 8" tall. To my calculations, this comes out to about a thousand gallons, which should be plenty for my purposes. Now all I have to do is go to Home Depot and buy:

PT 4x4's: __1x6 Planks
6x 2' ______27x 2'8"
1x 9' ______26x 1'8"
3x 8' ______3x 8'
6x 1'
3x 11'
4x 5'

And that should do it. Do these calculations look right to anyone?

[ampersand]

I think it's a good idea that you've routed the gutter under the pond. I was thinking that if there was a heavy rain there would be a lot of fast moving water coming out of the gutter which would disturb a lot of the life in the pond. Good luck with the build!

[cguarino30]

It turns out that my gutters are connected directly to my sewer lines. How cool is that? so I don't have to route anything. I went to Home Depot last night and picked up all the wood for my project, so here is what my box pond would look like (minus the liner, water, plants and fish) if you were to drop it off a tall building.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/Sd_KUKyEBiI/AAAAAAAAMM4/DmvkW22a1_I/s640/P4090148.JPG

I'm going to start knocking it together tomorrow while I wait for everyone to show up and install utilities. God, I missed being able to build stuff. I'll update pictures as I make progress, for anyone who's interested (Pretty much just BoCoMo by my count) haha.

[dirtydawg10]

Looks like a cool idea. I would be a bit concerned about leaning it up against the house. I would leave it at least 6" away from the house. The pond may settle a bit with all that weight and only sitting on landscape pavers...and that's why I would keep it from touching the house.

[cguarino30]

well, it turns out that it'll probably end up being a little farther away from the house than I originally intended. I messed up the construction of the 4x4 frame, and now it's too wide to fit in between the gutter and the opposite wall, so it'll be about what you recommended (5-6 inches) away from the house. The good thing is that I don't need to reroute the gutter anywhere, so it won't really have any major impact on the final construction, I'll just put another plank over the gap to make it look nicer. Here is the frame knocked together.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeCunlGuk3I/AAAAAAAAMNY/R3xjDqN-rL8/s640/frame.jpg

I'm going to start putting in the planks on the large one before I start to build the bog box, so I'll update pictures as I can, but for now, you can get a general idea of what it's going to look like because I put one of the planks in the corner.

[Deanthoreu]

looks good

[dirtydawg10]

Nice start!!

[cguarino30]

Making headway. Typical to any of my projects, I am making lots of mistakes in terms of knowing what I need and how I'm going to do it, but I am compensating for these as I go along with extra materials and good old fashioned imporvisation. As of today I think I have about 75% of this thing done. I finished putting the planks into the bigger part, and I put the frame for the bog box together, and I got the waterfall pretty much finished. My original frame was a little wobbly, but once those planks got nailed in it turned sturdy as a rock. All I need to do now is put the planks into the bog box, nail on the waterfall, and stain it all, and I'll be done with my woodwork. Unfortunately, I was talking to my new neighbors (very nice people, thank God) and they told me that I should probably notify the HOA and get approval for the pond, so before I put in the liner and the water and all the fun stuff, I'm going to wait on that approval, which could take a month or so. That's ok, though, because I still have a lot to figure out before I'm ready to do any of that as it is. Here are the pics as of tonight:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeFdD32NItI/AAAAAAAAMN4/bqwkDapWTgg/s640/pond75.jpg

and here is the waterfall. I'm really pulling this thing out of the air, and you can tell how haphazard it is right now, but I was going for something a little irregular looking, and I think once I cover the whole thing in pond liner it'll look great. (I need to remember to cut off those stray nails before I add the liner) The only part of the wood that will show will be the one side, which just looks like 2 wooden planks. We shall see.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeFd_jJTM0I/AAAAAAAAMOY/mPVFLF24xiA/s512/waterfall.jpg

[dirtydawg10]

Looking good!

[ChrisK]

A great start!!

[cguarino30]

ladies and gentlemen, I give you the bog box:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeKrHk3DT3I/AAAAAAAAMO4/n-B6t6p3pcM/s640/box.JPG

As you can see, I've finished all construction on the woodwork. The larger box in back is about 8 feet long and 5 feet wide, and consists of a frame of 4x4s with 1x6 planks nailed in vertically. The stepdown flume on the right consists entirely of 1x6s, and is approximately 6 feet long, and the bog box in front is 11 feet long and 1 foot wide, and consists of the same construction as the larger box. All wood is pressure treated "appearance grade." I will stain it tomorrow for the sake of my neighbors mostly. Then I'm going to have some down time to run the plans by the HOA (God, I hope they don't mind) and work out some of the liner and pump details. Will post a picture of the fully stained box. Happy Easter All.

[dirtydawg10]

:thm: Keep up the good work.

[BoCoMo]

:thumbsup:

[tidioute06]

Pond armor would be amazing for that instead of a liner. Would look better too.
http://www.pondarmor.com/

[cguarino30]

It's an interesting idea. I don't think it would work, though, since the sides are made of wooden planks and the bottom is a combination of dirt and paver stones. Anyone know?

[tidioute06]

it would be pretty simple. You'd just need a flat surface to apply the armor to. Simple cover the inside in 1/4-1/2" plywood. and slop the armor on. The stuff dries really hard and completely water tight.

[cguarino30]

That sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I'd much rather just install a pond liner. I'm going to put stones all along the outside edges anyway so you wouldn't even be able to see the difference. I think this stuff would be better for some other project.

[serissime]

this is an awesome project. good luck with the hoa!

[cguarino30]

Alright, I am as far as I am going to get before I move in in August. It's going to be tough waiting that long, but I don't have much of a choice. This is pretty much the finished product, but everywhere you see a lack of stain, I want you to imagine a black pond liner with pavestones (that match the patio) on the top perimeter of the two boxes, and a torrent of water flowing down the falls into a lush bog. It was a rough 4 days (especially for my VERY understanding wife, haha), but I think it was worth it. How's it look?

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeOJI7m26fI/AAAAAAAAMPY/eXPkWAqZbJ8/s640/StainFront.JPG

And here is a picture from the back door of the house, looking out into the yard:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeOJJNqoxlI/AAAAAAAAMPg/qBIpVHqTeAs/s640/StainSide.jpg

And here is a closeup of the waterfall (I know I need to remove those nails before the liner goes in)

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_uMAK037S6_M/SeOJJ-qZFeI/AAAAAAAAMPo/HW0k9zrCEaA/s512/StainFall.jpg

[serissime]

It looks great! Why can't you progress? Just too much trouble after you move?

[cguarino30]

It looks great! Why can't you progress? Just too much trouble after you move?

A couple reasons. Mostly, it's because I still live 500 miles away and won't be back until August. The other reason is that the HOA needs 30 days to approve any pond construction (which I didn't know when I started) but I was talking to a couple of my neighbors and they say that shouldn't be too much trouble. Mostly, it's just the 500 miles thing. That's ok, though, it just gives me more time to plan the rest out.

[serissime]

Oh... I see. Have you thought about what's gonna live in there?

[Sploke]

Wow how have I missed this? Looks great! How are you going to plumb it to get water back up into the pond? for the liner, I would definitely use 2x4s or something across the top screwed down to basically clamp the liner along the top edge.

[cguarino30]

Thanks, all. The 2x4 idea was one way I might go, but I was thinking it might look better if I found some pavestones that match the patio and use those to hold down the liner all along the edge. As for plumbing, I'm just going to run a flexible tube from the pump through that gap that you see in between the house and the inside wall of the large box. In terms of what is going to live in there, I think I'm going to use it for seasonal, tropical fish, (either breeding colonies of cichlids or livebearers to make babies that I can harvest or maybe just a summer home for some oscars that I can move back inside for the winter) but this year, I'm going to use it to grow out some baby koi that I will put in my parents' much larger, in-ground pond when it gets cold. I think that this pond is way too shallow/exposed to use for any fish that would want to over-winter in the pond (eg goldfish/koi) and I'd be nervous about the ice formation splitting open the wood, so I think I'm going to drain it and cover it for the winter months.

[Desertponder]

I really like where you are going with this.:)
I like the idea of putting some pavers or stone of some type on the top to cover your liner.
I hope the HOA doesn't give you any grief. I hate HOA's. Won't live anywhere that has 'em.:mad2:
It appears that your yard is not fenced? They may not like the pond being open to where anyone can get to it. That's not good for you either. You may also have city building codes that have requirements on ponds. Some cities require that they be enclosed by fencing.

[cguarino30]

Well, my nextdoor neighbors are on the board of directors for the HOA and they seem pretty nice, and say that the HOA is mostly an informal body in this neighborhood. As for the fencing issue, that is one of the HOA's concerns, but I would maintain that since the box is over 2 and a half feet high, it constitutes its own fence. I designed it specifically with child safety in mind, as I have a seven year old and another on the way. As for "anyone getting to it" I'm not really that concerned. I won't be putting in anything skittish enough to be affected by little fingers, as I'm sure my own kids will be the greatest antagonists to the pond as it is. All you can do is try to keep everyone informed of the rules. There's no real way to definitively stop kids from getting into things. I feel I made the box so that it was just high enough that any kid who wanted to get into it would have to be big enough to stand up inside it. haha. We will just have to see.

[7itanium]

have you considered coating the inside with epoxy rather than using a liner?

[jpappy789]

Wow, this is a really cool build!

[cguarino30]

Thanks. I did consider something like Pond Armor (page 2 or 3 I think) but I've decided that with this particular construction, there are too many small gaps to make it as effective as I'd like it to be. Not to mention that the entire pond doesn't really have a bottom, as I built it on top of my patio, and I don't really want to spread pondarmor straight onto my patio. I'm kinda counting on the liner to fill them in for me. I'm still thinking about it, but I'm pretty sure that I can just take one, solid liner, and cut an L shape on the edge (without completely removing it) and use that one, solid liner to waterproof the entire poind, which would be great if I can just pull it off.

[7itanium]

ah.. yes the pond not having a bottom would put a damper on the epoxy idea... as you would NEVER be able to see the concrete again if you wanted to lol

I look forward to seeing how this liner works out

[Dexmaster]

Its getting close to august any updates on the HOA?

[Navyscuba]

Well I seen a couple of DIY shows where they roll the end of the liner into a 2 x 4 and secured the 2x4 to the side of the frame of the pond and use plants around it to cover it. Hope it helps. I was planning on doing a pond but kinda put the idea on hold due to planning on put a pet store. Yay. I just visit one that is owned by a family and they asked me about $350 grand for it but there's a lot of work to do on it to put it up to date.

[EllTee424]

FWIW, I just finished (well, nearly finished) building a deck-box pond using PT 4x6s. To secure the liner to the walls I used a piece of Trex decking that I ripped in half (so it was 3" wide) on the top of the each vertical wall and drilled through it (and the liner) into the pond wall. This holds the liner up nicely, which still goes over the top of the wall. This weekend I'll put another Trex board over the top edge to finish the top and cover the rest of the liner.

Don't want to threadjack - I'll start my own thread for the construction. But here is a picture of the cleat.

An added benefit is that the cleat forms a little ledge that I can put a frame for my netting to keep the leaves out.

[Muske]

Did you ever plan on putting the bog above the main pond?