angel nipping maybe grooming ???

[LMOUTHBASS]

Hello I have some very unusual behavior to report/ question
ok i have two angel fish in my 55 gal one is big about 3 1/2 inches vertically the other one is a baby maybe 1 1/2 inches tops. ok so the big one will now flutter in place in the water while he lets the little one come over to him and peck at his fins his tail and other fins - the little one sits there and nips him everywhere but the big one just takes it - i'm assuming this isn't hurting him because if it was he woul chase the little one away - on occasion the little one nips him somehwere he doesn't like and he lets him know by giving him a quick chase but then a few mins later the little one comes over and goes back to work pecking n tugging at different fins on the big ones body! wtf is going on here??? now the big ones fins look sorta ratty! is he just letting the little one groom him or something? does he have like fin rot or something or is the little one just trying to groom his fins or something? i notice every few weeks with the big one that his fins split a little n get a little raggy n then grow even larger n better looking but now he looks like his tail has been mowed down a little - has anyone ever seen this type of stuff???

[DIYMatt]

I saw my breeding pair do this once a while ago. It didn't harm either one, so I didn't worry about it. But, I don't know for sure if it is a signal of something. I thought it was some type of mating ritual or dominance game. I also saw their fry do that to both of them when I let them parent raise for almost a month. The fry actually did some damage, but their fins grew back beautifully.

IME- fin rot will continue to rot the fins, not do some damage and then let the fins grow back. So, I would gues it is not that.

[LMOUTHBASS]

is it possible i have a pair!!! the little one looks so much younger is it trying to court the bigger one how old do angels have to be to mate???

[LMOUTHBASS]

anyone have any thoughts on this???

[DIYMatt]

Well, its possible. But, i wouldn't use the picking as a signal of that or not. I would be surprised if they are a pair given the differences in age. Are there other fish in the tank? My angels have always started to defend a territory together when they pair up. Then I usaully notice them cleaning off a spawning site. I have had many angels do that. Its the rest of the process they don't always "get". As far as age, thats impossible to say for sure. Its more of a physical development thing. But, if 1 1/2 tall is just the body size not including the fins, then I would say it is possible for the little one to be able to mate. If that size includes the fins, no way, thats a really small angel!

But, I have done a little research on the nipping/picking thing. It is NOT a good thing in general. Apparently, the fish may be pickin at the other angels slime coat, especially if they are picking at the body of the other fish. So, I would watch the larger one closely and watch for any sign of diseases like Ich. I am still trying to find out what triggers the fish to pick at the other fish. I was thinking it must be some kind of nutrient defeincy, but I can't find any info to confirm or deny that. Just watch that older fish closely for disease.

[LMOUTHBASS]

thanks for your help, the older one is actually still pretty young he's just growing quickly he was in my 20 as a baby and over 6 mos his growth really took off when i got my 55 gal a month ago i put him in there it's a peaceful comminuty tank (gouramies,swordtail, ottos etc) he is the biggest fish overall in the tank he has prob put on another 1/2 inch since coming to the 55 he seems to get larger in body mass than anything else! The little angel goes not pick at his body he just nips at the ends of his fins - the big one seems to like it because he sits there while the little one does it - it's not like he swims away in pain or anything - so i don't think he is picking at body slime - but the tail of my big angel was the main target for the picking the last few days but is now starting to grow in nicely again now it's the top fin on his head i'm not sure what that's called anyhow the top fin looks ragged and mowed down it sorta looks like someone who got a haircut way too short! strange but lil one is picking there now ? im not sure what to think i mean the big guy isnt annoyed by it i imagine if it hurt he woulnt let this happen as he is like 3 times as big - i mean once in a while he'll shortly chase the little one an inch or so if he doesn't like the spot being pecked - im not sure other than that he looks healthy still voraciously hungry not being shy or anything - no ich - so i'm using melafix to try to help regrow those fins!
let me know if you have any other info or suggestions thanks!!!

[DIYMatt]

I figured your fish were still pretty young. My breeding pairs started to really get the spawning thing when they were almost 6" tall from fintip to fintip. Now, they are about 8" tall full grown. Melafix is what I would suggest along with a little salt in the water to regrow those fins. Actually, thats what the angel fry did to the parents. Mostly pick at their fins, they really tore them up once. SO, basically if its not bothering you and the fish doesn't seem to mind I wouldn't worry about it. Good luck!

[Raithan Ellis]

IMO, it's not something you want to let continue. Over the time that I've been breeding and growing-out Angelfish it's something I've come across from time to time.

I've seen dimesized Angelfish pick the slimecoat off of Discus and other adult Angels to the point that they begin eating the fins and if let continue, it can put the other fish's health at risk. When I say risk, I've had 50-60 eight-week old Angel fry kill off fully grown discus (slime and finnage completely gone leaving only rays/spines behind) in less than the period of a day. Not something I wish to come home to again. The attack itself did not cause the death, but the stress involved eventually ended the fish in another day after quarantine.

Now I know this isn't the same as two little Angels hashing it out, however the intent appears to be the same IME. Either the smaller one wishes to dine on slime, or it is trying to get dominance on a larger fish by decreasing it's chance for survival.

When growing-out Angelfish, I always try to keep them somewhat sized like-for-like. It isn't absolutely necessary as I have had fry that get along with fully grown adult Angels, however I've also had some that don't.

Use your best judgement, as I cannot see that which you do in your own aquaria.

Regards,
Raithan O. Ellis