My first salt tank: 55gals. [Archive]

ChunkyMonkey

04-25-2009, 1:20 PM

whoops, guess I could do some posting about it.

It's a 55 gallon
60 pounds live sand
30 pounds live rock(buying more, want at least 60)
Fluval 405 canister filter with the surface skimmer attachment

I am picking up 2 Koralia #3 powerheads and hang on back skimmmer tomorrow as well as the Fluval E300 advanced heater. Would two #3's be overkill, and just go with a #2 and #3? As far as stocking I wanted to go with something not like the typical clowns, but still browsing the threads to see what's out there that would be compatible with my tank size and flow. Would love to add coral later within the year, but we'll see how it goes.

My wife is going nuts watching surf the site for ideas and researching requirements and such. Never thought I'd move over to a salt setup.....Spending the money definitely isn't a myth, lol, but having a blast.

I know it's just a start, but does it sound on track?

Ace25

04-25-2009, 1:29 PM

Sounds like everything is on track so far. I would go with 2 #3s on the 55G.

ChunkyMonkey

04-25-2009, 1:35 PM

Thanks, that's what I was thinking since there was so little of a price difference anyways.

ChunkyMonkey

04-29-2009, 12:49 AM

Alright, just picked up these:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0220-2.jpg
and
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0219-1.jpg

About to do a water change so I had to pick up more salt:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0221-2.jpg

Will get some picks of the 55 in the morning, just charged the camera tonight for photos and my oldest kiddo is asleep, and I will NOT "wake a sleeping giant," lol.

ToeJam

04-29-2009, 12:54 PM

Sounds like everything is on track so far. I would go with 2 #3s on the 55G.

I agree 2 #3's at the least....and like usual I don't recommend canister filters. Nitrate production factory. Long story short fellow reefer and I had similar experiences. removing the canister and seeing our tests show nitrates fall and stay down vs past with canister was evidence our canisters were doing what others told us. Producing more nitrates.

The reason is the crud its trapped in the canister by design. It breaks down and bam more nitrates.

Skimmer & Live Rock should take care of filtering. The powerheads job is to keep things suspended in the water so the skimmer has time to remove them before they break down.

Up to you on the canister but as frequent posters know...I always pound on them for being not good in the long run.If it was all you had then sure, but since you have a skimmer I think going without it is better for the tank.

After your cycle look into clean up crews for the tank and even consider investing in a Phosban reactor by twolittlefishies company.

You look good to go like Ace mentioned..

BoCoMo

04-29-2009, 12:56 PM

Sweet! Keep updating as I think this is going to be a great post for beginners wanting to set up their first salty! Very cool! :thumbsup:

ChunkyMonkey

04-29-2009, 6:27 PM

Great, thanks guys! I apologize for my ignorance in understanding the concepts of the skimmer and filter. I thought I needed both. Mainly, I didn't have room for a sump setup like I've seen on bigger tanks or even those similar to mine. So I can actually remove the canister filter COMPLETELY? without any substitute?

As for the cleanup crew, they're definitely first on the list after cycling. Was trying to look into the different shrim p and such. Please feel free to provide a link to prefences in y'alls(sorry, that's the Texan in me, lol) clean up crews. Thanks again guys. I have some insight to a killer 300gal complete setup with 6 hours runtime for a good price, but I want to see how this goes. Otherwise I'll just make that 300 a Malawi Cichlid setup, lol to match my 100....

ChunkyMonkey

04-29-2009, 6:44 PM

Do you think that HOB skimmer is big enough to handle the setup by itself? Another site stated I may have issues with it.

ChunkyMonkey

04-30-2009, 11:06 PM

Okay, about time I posted tank shots, lol.
Live rock isn't in the final position, still trying to figure out what I want in terms of the layout.

Someone is excited about his aquarium:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0229-1.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0230-1.jpg

The Fluval 405:
Those aren't scratches on the glass, just my bear claw smudges, lol
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0232-1.jpg

Full tank shot. You can see both powerheads in place(let me know if you think they should be elsewhere), the CPR back pack skimmer, and the contents of the tank. I haven't put the skimmer attachment on the Fluval yet. The powerhead on the left is on the back glass and bouncing off the front center glass. The powerhead on the right side glass is slightly at the surface to keep it movin'.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/chadmandry/DSC_0231-1.jpg

ChunkyMonkey

05-04-2009, 7:23 PM

Well tomorrow should be a good day. I'll be taking a sample of the water to my LFS for testing to see where I stand! I can't wait, maybe I can at least start on the cleanup crew.

Mods: Can you edit the thread title to be "My first salt: 55gal" or something to that effect please?

Catpicklesdog

05-06-2009, 2:51 PM

ChunkyMonkey

05-06-2009, 3:46 PM

Thanks a bunch!!!

ChunkyMonkey

05-06-2009, 3:50 PM

I got the green light from the LFS on the water. Hope to get my cleaning crew soon. I'm not a fan of snails, sorry to the lovers, no hating intended. I know I want one or two cleaning shrimp, but what else could do good? Are snails a must have?

mlefessler

05-06-2009, 4:57 PM

Looking good! =)

I set up my first 75-gallon salty just about a month ago and I'm looking forward to stocking it as well.

I've got my water parameters stabilized and now I'm starting to do some research on HOB protein skimmers. I see you have the Bak-Pak. I'm looking to research my options as far as protein skimmers and hopefully find one that seems to be a middle ground of "does the job and didn't make me go broke" type thing. Can you tell me if you're happy with the one you've got?

mlefessler

05-06-2009, 4:59 PM

By the way, LOVE your quote "going broke, tank by tank"! Clever. I was going to use "my fish live paycheck to paycheck". =P

ChunkyMonkey

05-06-2009, 5:23 PM

Looking good! =)
Can you tell me if you're happy with the one you've got?

I'm extremely happy with the skimmer and its simplicity. I'm not a fan of HOB stuff, that's what made me go with the cannister filter for both tanks and away from the Emperor 400, even though it was a great filter. The Bak Pak was perfect since I didn't have a sump due to space and this being setup in my 17 month old son's room. Otherwise, I'd go with an under the tank setup.

By the way, LOVE your quote "going broke, tank by tank"! Clever. I was going to use "my fish live paycheck to paycheck". =P

haha, yeah, it's become true. It's not inconvenient as I've got everything I've wanted out of what I've purchased. If I'm going ot have an animal/pet/whatever, I wouldn't half *** it or have to keep buying a cheaper replacement down the road constantly. Since I'm a police officer, pretty much my sidejob money goes to the fish, guns, and cars, lol.

mlefessler

05-06-2009, 8:49 PM

Good to know! I was scouting that particular skimmer, but wanted a second opinion from someone with hands-on experience. Thank you! =)

Hope to see some pics of your tank soon!

(your son is a lucky little man to have a nice saltwater tank in his room)

ChunkyMonkey

05-06-2009, 11:56 PM

No problem, hoping to have clowns and cleaners by end of week. Reading more to see what would be compatible with the clowns for a natural looking group. My LFS has been VERY generous to me throughout this process. I'll be posting as I go, especially since saltwater is like a foreign language to me. I hope troubles or experiences I have and post here will help others beginning to venture to the "dark side."

midmichman80

05-07-2009, 10:18 AM

deeproot

05-07-2009, 12:27 PM

This thread is great.

I am also setting up a new tank its a 58 gallon. It's about 3 weeks in.

I just got a bak-pak2 and the directions says to clean the bio-bail/bio-balls every three months. I am guessing this is to handle the nitrate problem as well as other nasty things. Just a guess because I have never had a tank before so i'm a total newb.

58gallon
192Watt PC lights (10k / Actenic)
2 damselfish
80Lbs live sand
bak-pak2
11Lbs live rock (will buy some more every week or so to get about 80Lbs)
AquaClear 500 (now i'm thinking of taking this off because of this thread)
powerhead 301 right side
Maxijet 1200 left side

Deeproot

Tank Shot
http://tank.deeproothosting.com/site/images/stories/imag0157.jpg

ChunkyMonkey

05-07-2009, 1:56 PM

Very nice! So is your tank more of a cube shape, or is the picture deceptive? I'm loving my tank so far. I'm looking forward to learning more about this. I'm going for some lights within the next couple of weeks. I should have painted the back of my tank before I started any of this. Now I have to wait until I move next year to move the tank and paint, lol.

ChunkyMonkey

05-07-2009, 1:59 PM

Anyone else think the bio balls in the Bak Pak skimmer might trap detrius and become a nitrate trap as well? I have heard this from many people, but am no expert, just trying to save you from problems later, much like the cannister filter. Someone correct me if I am wrong, just my thoughts though.

I've heard 50/50 on them. Some folks cut the recommended cleaning/maintenance in half and hadn't had problems. I just didn't have the space for a sump so I had to try the cannister as an alternate. We'll see. I've been doing a lot of testing to try and monitor it.

DSR

05-07-2009, 2:56 PM

ChunkyMonkey

05-07-2009, 3:50 PM

Thanks for the input DSR. I may go ahead and try it both ways to see what kind of results I get. Maybe a 3 month term on each.

deeproot

05-07-2009, 4:37 PM

ChunkyMonkey
Yeah this tank is more square at 36.5"L x18.5"D x 21.5"H.

I was just at the pet store looking for some more live rock but they didn't have any with any growth. I got a better timer for my lights, the Coralife Aqualight power center for 3 sets of lights. I will let you know how it turns out.
I have blue lunar lights on all night and then in the moring they shut of and the 10k comes on for an hour then the actenic comes on and they both stay on for about 9 hours then the atenic shuts off and 1 hour later the 10k turns off and the lunars pop back on. Does this sound like a decent start for the lighting scheme.

Deeproot

mlefessler

05-07-2009, 4:48 PM

You could always use the cannister empty, just for the flow it provides. I have taken all of my bio media out of my saltwater tank (which goes against every thought in my freshwater mind...lol). But the LFS I am working with swears that nothing else is needed other than the liverock. So away I go! Good luck to you. Wish we had a big sw tank, but the 24 gallon we have now is going to be plenty time consuming.

My LFS claims the same thing. The owner and I have become very close.....since I'm practically in there every day. :) He claims that the filter I have (Emperor 400) is pretty much for the sole purpose of surface movement (especially at the top for appropriate gas exchange and such). I currently run the filter with filter floss to help trap some of the bigger particles. Someone had suggested using live rock rubble in the filter chamber, but in my opinion, that just will lead to nitrate galore.

Deeproot - I would keep the AquaClear on there (with no media). Atleast just for the surface agitation. The two powerheads you have on there is sufficient for below the surface water movement. It looks great so far! I remember setting up the tank for the first time. I had oh, maybe 5 pounds of LR (in a 75-gallon, nonetheless) and I sat in front of the tank thinking to myself "wow, I'm going to need a looooot more LR to make this tank seem 'full'!" Started with 5 pounds, been adding about 5 pounds each week. LR isn't exactly cheap! Since everyone else is sharing their tanks, perhaps I should post a picture of mine just to feel "cool". Hehe! =)

deeproot

05-08-2009, 12:47 AM

mlefessler,

I am going to do a 5 gallon water change tomorrow because i have tons of nitrates. I am going to take all the filtration out of the AquaClear also. Live rock is expensive. I went to a really nice marine fish store and bought some man made live rock. It is covered in coraline specs (or what ever it should be called). It is over 20Lbs and cost $50. They said it has been awesome and I did see alot of the tanks there using it and it was very nice, covered in coralline of all colors. I can post a pic of it every few week if anyone is curious about how it will work out.

ChunkyMonkey,

Do you want to keep our tank development together in the same thread.? I would like to see how our tanks grow together and feed of the wealth of information we are gaining from here. I don't wanna be a thread jacker, but I can start a new thread if you wish.

http://deeproothosting.com/images/IMAGE_159.jpg

Deeproot

ChunkyMonkey

05-08-2009, 6:12 PM

Let's keep it together....This way we can compare the benefits of keeping or ditching the filter material in our skimmers/filters.
I think that would be a benefit to others too. We can try water changes at the same time if possible, but keeping a routine at the least for personal fish health if needed. I have two black and white ocellaris clowns and two cleaner shrimp. Added after each other, not at the same time. It was crazy, the cleaners and clowns just knew what to do. There is a section in the rocks that looks like a full service station, lol. The clown pulls up and the shrimp steps out to "top him off."

I'll have some pics in a second.

My back right corner doesn't seem to have flow as I can see some stuff settling on the powerhead and bottom of tank. MMy kid is ABSOLUTELY loving this tank. The Otherwise the flow seems kind of neat in the front. When I put the food it, you see it fling around about a 10"x10" vertical area for the clowns to snake on without it hitting the base.

ToeJam

05-08-2009, 7:16 PM

I feel like a jerk sometimes when I comment. But here i go anyway.

I flog this topic to death (canisters). the reason I say no to canisters is they trap detritus. Detritus breaks down = pollutants in the tank..aka Nitrates. Nitrate trap is the simple explanation. Useless maybe not it has positives but the goal is keeping nitrates down in Salt since we have intense lighting (if reef). That alone is a problem for us because more nutrients means more algae and or cyano issues to battle and larger or more frequent water changes.

Now my sig has explanation about Skimmers so you can get more in depth understanding of there purpose.

As for the Bakpaks it is recommended that you take bio balls out. WHy? Because they have one bacteria type which converts bad stuff to nitrate... it is desired to have rubble rock in there which will contain both beneficial bacteria vs one.

Octopus makes hob skimmers but i have no experiences with them. Just lots of good reviews and first hand experience friends who say they are good. I have the sump version and I cant tell you how darned happy I am with it. I am so glad I bought that as my replacement skimmer.

not advising anything just providing feedback on some things i read in here. Anywho...thanks for posting more stuff. I've been busy to visit this site and missed out on the convo.

7itanium

05-08-2009, 7:20 PM

nice looking setup

my only suggestion is you might wanna aim one of the powerheads directly at some of the rock

other than that.. and getting some more rock (which you mentioned).. looks nice

you are basically using a big canister filter as a sump-- which is fine.. but I would reccomend removing all the filter media and replacing it with live rock rubble

mechanical filtration isnt usually needed in sw tanks that have live rock

ToeJam

05-08-2009, 7:24 PM

Deeproot,

How new is that tank? (looks so clean)... =p

Great idea on slowly adding rocks in as you get going... Are you doing 5g weekly water changes?

Nitrates being up only means you have a large build up happening ...now if fully cycled.
The thing is maybe you need to feed lighter if you are not. Pinch of food that should be gone in 5 min vs floating around still. Wash frozen foods if you have them to remove phosphates.

Hows the clean up crew in there to? Do you have nessy snails for that sand bed? If not get several...trust me on this. And the sand bed article someone else posted reinforces the need for it. To release the trapped gasses and allow some water flow into that sand bed.

I would also suggest if you can removing the detritus traps (hob filter). Let the skimmer pull the dissolved organics for you. Keep that stuff suspended by having well placed powerheads is the key thing to make sure you efficiently skim.

Otherwise it looks like a great start man...

To both of you Chunky and Deeproot,

I highly recommend,(no needed) A phosban reactor.... use Phosban media or similar product ..it will remove phosphates. Though not harmful to your inhabitants it is "miracle grow" for algae and worst case Cyano ....keeping Phosphates down will make the long term maintanence better...

I say this out of experience and massive headaches... I swear to the fish gods if I was pushed to get this long ago I would have saved myself frustrations big time...

Ace25

05-08-2009, 8:04 PM

+1 on the Phosban reactor. I really feel that they are as important, if not more important than a protein skimmer, especially on smaller tanks. Myself.. my first 3 YEARS getting into reef I spent battling cyano and hair algae off and on until I learned about phosphate reactors. I knew about phosphates and tested, but at the time didn't know that the cyano and hair algae was consuming them all and making my phosphate test come back telling me everything was ok. Now I tell people that is one of the most important pieces of equipment one can buy, and also one of the cheapest comparing it to skimmers, lighting, and certain brand pumps/powerheads.

deeproot

05-09-2009, 9:59 PM

Ok I did a water change and took out the hob filter (aqualight 500).
I put in a few nassa snails in today.
I will report back with a water reading soon.

I went to the LFS and their selection for phosban didn't exist, any recommendations?
Deeproot

mlefessler

05-15-2009, 5:25 AM

Question regarding the phosban reactors (and to re-establish Deeproot's question):

I've been doing a little research in regards to the systems. Can anyone give me a suggestion to as what is a good brand and a good media to use? It would have to be a HOB.

The more I keep reading about it, the more I am convinced I would benefit from one.

mr.cichlid

05-15-2009, 1:41 PM

hi guys, i have a same situation here with my 55g tank and i am trying to figure out ways to control cyano and algae. i was thinking that installing a sump would solve all these problems but learnt from senior members in AC that it really doesn't. So i just read this thread and started to think may be i should think about phosban reactor too. the first question that strikes my mind is that are these reactors expensive and hard to install?
My tank is not predrilled so the reactor has to be HOB. I am already running an olympus HOB skimmer.

mr.cichlid

05-15-2009, 1:45 PM

forgot to ask can phosban reactors control silicates? like inserting some media for silicates in addition to the media for phosphates.

Ace25

05-15-2009, 2:01 PM

Phosban reactors do solve silicate problems as well. I have found that Phosban media by Two Little Fishies (same people that make a reactor) does NOT remove silicates very well. It does in small amounts but not as much as I prefer. I go with RowaPhos myself, but it does cost 2x as much for the media.

A reactor is very simple. Clear cylinder with a hard tube going down the center to a plastic plate on the bottom with holes drilled around it. The plate is called the diffuser. You put a sponge on top of that, fill about 1/4 to 1/3 with media, then add another sponge on top and close it up. The lid usually has another small tube and difusser plate that attaches to the long tube already in the cylinder. A small pump will feed water down the center tube so the water goes to the bottom then it trickles upwards through all the media making it work very well vs in a bag. It becomes fluidized, so it looks like the media is perkalating in the cylinder. You just want enough flow to keep the media in a "dancing" state., then the water comes out a hole in the top that is off center and goes back into your tank via a tube. I have learned over the years it is a good idea to use the mesh bag that comes with the media and tie it onto the end of the output tube to catch any media that may slip through. 1 time is all it take to get Phosban media into your tank and sand and years to get it all out to learn that lesson in only 1 shot.

Here is a link to a bunch of different reactors. You can definately install them HOB.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Carbon-and-Phosphate-Remover-GFO-Media-Bags-&-Reactors/c109_85/index.html

Cheap reactor, but good picture to show how they work after explaining it.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/images/via-aqua-m.gif

Blown 346

05-16-2009, 3:24 AM

I agree in the canister filter and liverock rubble. The more rock you have the better as it is a natural filter.

Im not sure if your snail question was answered as I just skimmed thru.

Snails arent a must have but they do a tremendus job of helping out and you not having to work so hard. The great thing about going with a FOWLR or a reef setup is the inhabitants basically help take care of the tank.
Astrea snails will help clean the glass and rockwork, cut down on algae growth.
Cerith and nassarious snails will burrow in the sand bed to help keep it turned over. Everytime they go under and pop up they safely bring sand from the bottom up, and help keep it clean. It is very cool to see the Cerith snails pop up when you dump food in. They act like little Submarine's and instantly pop out.

I would recommend snails. Usually you want to do 1 snail per gallon. For your tank 25 or so Astreas, 25 cerith and 25 Nassarious would be a great start. You dont have to add them all at once, maybe 5 of each to start.