a good water conditioner without aloe gel or anything making the water slimy.

[wigglejaggles]

Hey now all,

I want to find a good chlorine, chloramine water conditioner that doesn't have aloe in it or anything making the water slimy.
I think I may try the marineland bio-safe. Do you all have any recomendations?

thanks!

take care,
Jared

[Prometheus]

That 'slimy' aloe is what puts that 'slimy' coating back onto the fish...

I would suggest using it ( I assume your taling about stress coat) at the recommned dosage.

If your heck bent on not using it, warley's watercare "chlor-out" works extremely well, without the slime. A .5 ounce bottle will treat 200 some odd gallons...

edit: Chlor-out doesn't remove/ neutralize ammonia.

[Slappy*McFish]

Marineland Biosafe is a good product...as is Seachem Prime. Aloe addition is uneccessary and it's helpfulness in aquariums is questionable.

[wigglejaggles]

hey now,

I am a bit skeptical about aloe helping the fish coat. I have read on here and other places that nothing has been proven that aloe actually does anything to help the fish. Some say aloe may inhibit the action of the gills.
And after seeing first hand how that stuff makes the water slimy I figure why bother. I believe the vitamins that are included in some water conditioners are far more effective than the aloe.

take care,
Jared

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by Slappy*McFish
Marineland Biosafe is a good product...as is Seachem Prime. Aloe addition is uneccessary and it's helpfulness in aquariums is questionable.

Hmmm... I wasn't aware of that... I think this calls for some research on my part... I'm a big fan of stresscoat, maybe the times are changen' :confused:

Thanks for the heads up Slappy.

wigglejaggles: take my suggestion with a grain of salt ;)

[Slappy*McFish]

Here is some info that you both might want to check out..

Aloe/Water conditioners
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/water/conditioners.shtml

Vitamins
http://www.dupla.com/e026.htm
Vitamin addition to the water is more than likely a futile exercise as there is no evidence that fish are capable of absorbing vitamins via the skin or gills...or even if the vitamins remain stable long enough to be absorbed at all. The best way to suppliment vitamins is to add them directly to the fishes' food.

[wigglejaggles]

slappy- thanks... I thought marineland bio-safe was slime free, and now that I know it is for sure I am gonna go ahead and get some.

Prom- thanks for taking the time to post! I bet half the crowd here is in favor of stress coat and half not.

ok thanks again guys!

take care,
Jared

[aquariumfishguy]

Personally, I have used Stress Coat for years and years and none of my fish have died from using it... infact, none of my fish have died in like 6 years now. My older fish (goldfish around 17) and some tetras and cories (8+ years) are doing just fine with stress coat so I dont see a need to discontinue use. :confused:

[Cearbhaill]

I use and recommend Seachem Prime- one tiny capful treats 50 gallons so one bottle lasts forever.
I'm not a big fan of using anything that is not necessary and this stuff is "just the facts"- no useless additives.

[aquariumfishguy]

I buy the stress coat because I have 18+ aquariums and dont have time or need to fuss over expensive water conditioners. Like I said, I might consider changing over water conditioners if I found the current stuff to be effecting my fish in a negative mannor but it seems that my fish are perfectly healthy so I shall stick with the cheap stuff!

[JSchmidt]

Prime and Amquel are good conditioners if you need to treat chloramine. If you only have water with chlorine, you can use plain old sodium thiosulfate. Not too hard to find at some of the larger fish places...

I don't use any product that adds aloe or other slime coat enhancers. I don't know if it hurts or not, but it certainly isn't necessary and I doubt they add that extra stuff to the bottle for free...

Jim

[Slappy*McFish]

Well, if you really want to go the cheap route, you can always just buy this:

http://www.pondpetsusa.com/crystalcleardechlor.htm

..or buy some pure sodium thiosulfate in crystalline form. A heck of a lot cheaper than Stresscoat and without all the 'extras'.

[aquariumfishguy]

JS: compare the prices of each water conditioner. Slime Coat is much cheaper, believe me...I spend over 20 bucks a month on the stuff!

[JSchmidt]

Comparing the cost of Prime and Amquel to Stress Coat isn't a fair comparison; they neutralize chlorine and detoxify ammonia when treating chloriminated water; Stress Coat only neutralizes the chlorine. A better comparison, if one is to compare dechlorinators (with or without "slime coat enhancers" would be to look at something like Kent's Chlorinex:

From That Pet Place:

Stress Coat 16 oz. (treats 960 gallons) $4.69 (dechlorinates and removes chlorine component of chloramine; does not detox ammonia)

Chlorinex 16 oz. (treats 7000 gallons) $6.49

Or, from the link Slappy provides:
Crystal Clear Dechlorinator 1/2 lb. (treats 45,000 gallons) $8.99

Considering that all 3 are basic dechlorinators, I'd say the extras in Stress Coat add a bit to the price.

For reference:
Amquel 16 oz. (treats 960 gallon) $5.99 (dechlorinates and it detoxes ammonia)


Jim

[Slappy*McFish]

Interesting comparisons there. AquariumFishGuy, with as many tanks as you have, you would save a ton of $$$ with the Crystal Clear Dechlorinator dry 1/2 lb. size @$8.99. It treats chlorine as well as chloramines. 45,000 gallons is alot of water...should last quite awhile.

[1 fish 2 fish]

Prime may be cheaper in the end because you use less per gallon...i think. but i don't like the eye dropper thingy you use.

I usually use ammo-lock.

[JSchmidt]

Prime probably isn't cheaper per gallon, even compared to StressCoat, but that's because it is a different type of product.

Prime not only neutralizes chlorine but it also detoxes ammonia (similar to Amquel and AmmoLock). The other products (e.g., StressCoat, Chlorinex, etc.) only neutralize the chlorine and do nothing at all with ammonia (such as the ammonia freed when treating chloramine).

Jim

[aquariumfishguy]

I dont find that I need any conditioners that treats ammonia as I dont have ammonia showing up in my water...and haven't now for many years.

...I do, however have a filter sponge which is supposed to rid the tank of any trace amounts of ammonia. Whether it works or not is beyond me but my fish manage without expensive water conditioners which is why I recommended Stress Coat.

[JSchmidt]

Originally posted by aquariumfishguy
...my fish manage without expensive water conditioners which is why I recommended Stress Coat.

I'd say you're already using an expensive water conditioner...

Stress Coat 16 oz. (treats 960 gallons) $4.69
Chlorinex 16 oz. (treats 7000 gallons) $6.49
Crystal Clear Dechlorinator 1/2 lb. (treats 45,000 gallons) $8.99

:confused:

Jim

[yhbae]

Do the two bottom products also remove chloramine? (Just curious...)

[JSchmidt]

No, but neither does Stress Coat. It only neutralizes the chlorine that's bound to the ammonia (i.e., its a basic dechlorinator). At least that's what Aquarium Pharmaceutical's website said.

Any basic dechlorinator will act on chloramine by neutralizing the chlorine and freeing the ammonia. That's what StressCoat, Chlorinex, etc. all do.

Jim

[wigglejaggles]

Hey Now,

I dont think my last reply went through so here it is again. I just ordered prime and will be using that to condition my water prior to adding bio-spira and my fishload.
i am alittle nervous after reading that prime neutralizes ammonia and detoxifies the tank. Does this mean that because i plan to use prime as a water conditioner once I put the biospira in the tank along with the fish load the amount of ammonia that will occur in 48 hours prime will neutralize therfore the bacteria of biospira will die because it wont get to eat the ammonia?

take care,
Jared

[Slappy*McFish]

No...it doesn't remove the ammonia, just converts it to a non-toxic form of ammonium that is still available to the bacteria. The only thing it may affect is an ammonia test kit reading. Just wait a couple of days to add the biospira if you're worried.

[yhbae]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
No, but neither does Stress Coat. It only neutralizes the chlorine that's bound to the ammonia (i.e., its a basic dechlorinator). At least that's what Aquarium Pharmaceutical's website said.

Any basic dechlorinator will act on chloramine by neutralizing the chlorine and freeing the ammonia. That's what StressCoat, Chlorinex, etc. all do.

Jim

According to my packaging, it says it neutralizes chloramines and also toxic metals. I want to continue to use this since I don't trust my copper piping in my house either. I have to admit though I have my own reservation on whether this slimy thing offers any benefit at all, but it certainly hasn't given me any problems either...

If anyone has better (cheaper) alternatives that removes chlorine, chloramine and toxic chemicals, I'm more than welcome to listen! :D

[JSchmidt]

From the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals website FAQ on StressCoat:

" Does Stress Coat remove chlorine and chloramines?
It removes chlorine and the chlorine component of chloramine. "



"Will Stress Coat detoxify Ammonia?

No. If you need to detoxify ammonia use Ammo-Lock 2. "



yhbae, have you tested water coming out of your tap for copper content? I have copper pipe and have never had any detectable copper content in my tap water, at least none that would show up on hobbyist tests.

Jim

[fishfood]

I've used Wardley's Chlor Out in the past with fine results. It looks just like water and is not slimey at all. It claims to remove both chlorine and chloramine.

[aquariumfishguy]

My stress coat is bought in large quantities...if I bought little 16 ounce bottles, they'd be gone in no time LOL :p

Anyway, I averaged out the price and did a few calculations...for 16 ounces @ the same price that I pay for the gallon, it would come to about $2.13. I think thats a pretty good deal.

[yhbae]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
From the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals website FAQ on StressCoat:

" Does Stress Coat remove chlorine and chloramines?
It removes chlorine and the chlorine component of chloramine. "



"Will Stress Coat detoxify Ammonia?

No. If you need to detoxify ammonia use Ammo-Lock 2. "



yhbae, have you tested water coming out of your tap for copper content? I have copper pipe and have never had any detectable copper content in my tap water, at least none that would show up on hobbyist tests.

Jim

I guess when they say they remove the chlorine component of chloramine means they remove chlorine component of chloramine but not the ammonia component of chloramine.... (Geez, now I am confused - chemistry has never been my favorite subject... :D )

In fact, I have no clue if my tap water has chloramine or not. The guy who works at the Hydro Quebec says he "thinks" they don't use it... Great... :D

As for copper, I have no clue, and I don't know how to test for copper. The house is about 12 years old, and I still have the original water tank so I'd imagine by now I would expect some copper/iron in the hot water, but I could be wrong for sure.

So far, I've been using Stress Coat instead of ChloroOut (which I considered at one point) because of the above reason...

[JSchmidt]

Frankly, I wouldn't stress out over StressCoat if you've used it and are happy with it. The main gyst of the comparisons were really aimed at the contention that the additives in StressCoat (like aloe) don't add to the cost. That clearly isn't true; compared to other garden-variety dechlorinators, StressCoat is pretty pricey.

Is the 'slime coat enhancer' dangerous to fish? Who knows? Is it necessary? Absolutely not. If it makes you feel better to pay extra for that stuff, it's probably worth it for your peace of mind, despite the fact that your fish don't need it.

As for the heavy metal removers, I confess I don't really understand how they work. I think they chelate the metals, but I don't know how/if they metals are removed from my tank. I don't think I keep any creatures that sensitive to copper or other possible metals.

My posts on this point aren't to be argumentative, but as this is a newbies forum, I think it important to dispel myths like the need for slime coat enhancing, or that such additives don't end up extracting $$ from your pocket.

Jim

[yhbae]

Completely agree! :D

If someone can somehow asure me that I don't have chloromine and no metals in water, I would happily switch to chlorine-only remover... The slimy stuff is definitely not the factor here (not a positive one at least)

[Slappy*McFish]

Call your water company.